Kumble v Herath: Better bowler?

[Trichromatic]

Whom would you pick?

 

Kumble

Matches: 132

Wickets: 619

Avg: 29.6

5fers: 35

10fer: 8

 

Herath

Matches: 79

Wickets: 366

Avg: 27.9

5fers: 29

10s: 7

Edited March 11, 2017 by laaloo

[OpeningBatsman]

I think, Kumble had more impact considering he was the leader of the attack.

Herath for most part of his career was under the shadow of Murli.

 

Would be great to see their stats in overseas countries? Who has the better Avg

Edited March 11, 2017 by OpeningBatsman

[sensible-indian]

ATGs - Warne and Murali

 

Level below ATGs - Lance Gibbs, Derek Underwood, Bishen Singh Bedi, Erapalli Prasanna, Bhagwat Chandrasekhar, Kumble, Swann, Herath (in no particular order)

 

We can argue who is better (quality wise) all day long but in the end, its just too close to call. There is a good chance Bedi and Prasanna were superior bowlers compared to the rest in that list.

 

As for this comparison, while both are damn good spinners, for the ability to carry his team for way too long and his performance in 2003 against an ATG Aus team, I would go with Kumble over Herath.

 

Edit: I forgot 2 important spinners. Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain Mushtaq. Mushtaq Ahmed was an ATG level spinner for 4 years with balanced records all over the world. But either side of it, he was mediocre. Belongs to the below ATG tier.

 

Saqlain Mushtaq was an extremely promising spinner who lost his way due to injury and over-reliance on doosra. Did flatten Indian batsmen of 90s in India with 4 5fers in a series which no other spinner has a claim to.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by sensible-indian

[BeautifulGame]

Their records are kinda identical after 79 matches actually

 

Kumble after 79 matches

 

Wkts 364

Sr 68.6

5 fer 21

10 fer 4

[sensible-indian]

Spinner stats are all meaningless cos they are more dependent on pitches than pacers.

 

If the pitches for a particular tour were super tough or easy, it will affect stats.

 

For example, Tahir averages 20 in India while someone like Santner averages 50. Means nothing cos they played in different pitches.

 

Same way, Kumble's averages sucked in Pakistan and SL cos he played in super pattas when touring there. During 2004 series, Kumble averaged 25 in Pakistan.

 

Herath has to deal with Aussie pattas and in recent tour, had to deal with SA preparing pitches to counter them. When he toured SA last time, he won SL a match on Durban when it was a turner. In early 90s, I heard Kumble did well in SA cos the pitches were relatively more favourable in that series.

 

Yasir averages 40 in England but he did more in England than ANY current spinner has done. Won them 2 games. When Herath and Jaddu toured there, they did nothing (both got a shot at Lord's atleast).

 

All in all, spinner comparison is a really complex game. Stats don't mean much.

 

Impact, good performances, longevity, threat factor count for more.

Edited March 11, 2017 by sensible-indian

[Trichromatic]

9 minutes ago, OpeningBatsman said:

I think, Kumble had more impact considering he was the leader of the attack.

Herath for most part of his career was under the shadow of Murli.

 

Would be great to see their stats in overseas countries? Who has the better Avg

Herath played 15 matches with Murali and took 39 wickets in those.

 

His 327 wickets have been taken in matches without Murali. Any spinner would be under shadow of Murali, but Herath for most part of his international career wasn't

[OpeningBatsman]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

Herath played 15 matches with Murali and took 39 wickets in those.

 

His 327 wickets have been taken in matches without Murali. Any spinner would be under shadow of Murali, but Herath for most part of his international career wasn't

Great, but he made his debut in 1999 if I am  right. What's the reason for him playing so few matches in 16-17 years? 

[flat_wicket_bully]

I would go with Kumble since current crop of players are awful against spin. Herath is an excellent spinner no doubt but I would prefer to have Kumble in my team if I had to choose between them

[Trichromatic]

Just now, OpeningBatsman said:

Great, but he made his debut in 1999 if I am  right. What's the reason for him playing so few matches in 16-17 years? 

No matter how many matches, 366 wickets is not less by any means. 

[OpeningBatsman]

Also a bit off topic, but growing up in the 90s, I always considered Saqlain Mushtaq a very good spinner. Not an ATG in test, but very handful nonetheless, and a champion ODI bowler.

Ofcourse his career ended earlier than expected, thanks in part to Sehwag. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by OpeningBatsman

[OpeningBatsman]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

No matter how many matches, 366 wickets is not less by any means. 

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to diminish herath's returns. Just stating why i consider kumble a bit better. May be I am based. 

[Trichromatic]

Just now, OpeningBatsman said:

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to diminish herath's returns. Just stating why i consider kumble a bit better. May be I am based. 

Even Kumble would have been under the shadows of Murali if they were in same team. That point would have been against Herath if he hadn't proved himself as leader of attack after Murali and just when we though SL cricket was going downhill without Sanga/Murali/Mahela, Herath has brought them back with his match winning abilities on consistent basis. 

[sensible-indian]

Herath has practically carried SL ever since Murali retired.

 

For a good part of 6-7 years.

 

The amount of burden on lead spinners' shoulder is insane. The team literally lives and dies by their performance (atleast in familiar conditions).

Edited March 11, 2017 by sensible-indian

[Trichromatic]

One thing that goes in favor of Kumble is quality of batsmen he had face in later part of his career. 

England team was mostly poor against spin during most part of his career. Herath probably bowled to much superior batting line up of KP, Cook and co.

Australian wasn't good till late 90s, but after that they probably had best batting line up against spin by a non-asian team. Herath bowled to a much weaker team.

SA was good during career of both bowlers. 

Kumle bowled to better batting line up of SL than Herath did to Indian line up.

WI had Lara, Chanders. 

NZ is better now.

Pakistan was much better earlier with Inzi, MoYo, YK and Anwar. 

[BeautifulGame]

16 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

One thing that goes in favor of Kumble is quality of batsmen he had face in later part of his career. 

England team was mostly poor against spin during most part of his career. Herath probably bowled to much superior batting line up of KP, Cook and co.

Australian wasn't good till late 90s, but after that they probably had best batting line up against spin by a non-asian team. Herath bowled to a much weaker team.

SA was good during career of both bowlers. 

Kumle bowled to better batting line up of SL than Herath did to Indian line up.

WI had Lara, Chanders. 

NZ is better now.

Pakistan was much better earlier with Inzi, MoYo, YK and Anwar. 

Would say the Kiwi team of 2000s were better players of spin.Fleming Richardson Mcmillan Astle were all pretty good players of spin.