Pace and Hype

[Rightarmfast]

 

Was just going through some old videos. If you watch and hear a lot of old players, and fans, they will swear to it that Wasim was blistering fast. Always suspected all this kind of talking to be hype and BS. Just watch these 2 videos. One is a 94 match, the other from 92. So Wasim must have been in his prime then. Watch the video, I can bet that he is not bowling anything above 115-125 ( max 130 k's) . This is the kind of hype and nonsense thats been prevalent in international cricket!

[renjith]

Regarding the above videos, wasim akram like dale steyn sometimes bowls very much within himself and will not always goes for sheer pace, coz speed was only one of the many skills he had.

Watch out for the speed related comments by other players:

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by renjith

[MCcricket]

Regarding the above videos, wasim akram like dale steyn sometimes bowls very much within himself and will not always goes for sheer pace, coz speed was only one of the many skills he had.

Watch out for the speed related comments by other players:

 

Thnx for posting this, i forgive Rightarmfast as i like most of his posts, maybe he was young then, Waseem is the best left armer to play cricket till date n it is silly to talk about him being a medium pacer, He was someone who could bowl 135 to 145 K , so not express but fast , Waqar was faster could cross 150k , So Waseem prob bowled similar pace to Shami except he was taller n got more bounce n was a left armer, Waqar was similar to Aaron pace wise.

[Rightarmfast]

My point being, Wasim wasnt out and out fast as claimed. He was capable of bowling at 145k's, and he was clocked at 145 in 94-95. But that would be an odd delivery. You watch the whole of the video I posted, and he is bowling medium pace throughout. 

 

I don't buy much of what former players say. I pointed that out even in my comment above. They hype a lot. Waqar I think was mostly a 145-150k's bowler with the top speed of around 154-155 I would say.

According to your former players, Mcgrath was an out and out fast bowler too, and so was Shaun Pollock. But we all know how fast these bowlers were.

Also, none of the former players have ever spoken of Srinath being fast. How come? 

[Rightarmfast]

Mostly my point is, he wasnt fast enough consistently to be given the tag of ' Left arm fast' as it shows. Should be fast medium .

[express bowling]

I have followed Wasim Akram's career from the very beginning. He was a very very good bowler....supremely skilled....capable of making the ball talk ...superb ability to swing and seam the ball .....bowl very good yorkers and bouncers....trouble the best of batsmen.

BUT Akram was not an out and out fast bowler....he was a FAST-MEDIUM pacer capable of some fast spells in his peak years.

 

 

[express bowling]

Before speed guns were used regularly, from 1999,  there was a lot of hype and wrong impression regarding the speeds of many fast bowlers.

Bowlers were called fast , not because they were necessarily very quick in the air, but because of some or many of the following reasons--

• They could bowl good accurate bouncers and hit batsmen on the body with reasonable regularity.
• They got zip and bounce off the deck.
• They came from a country reputed for producing fast bowlers
• They were wicket-taking and successful pacers who got bounce....
• They were tall and strong with aggressive body language
• They could bowl good yorkers
• They got good carry because of their good seam position and height

 

There were obviously many actual fast bowlers in the 70s, 80s, and 90s....but the ones reputed to be genuinely fast may or may not have been actually very quick in the air. .

Edited January 2, 2016 by express bowling

[renjith]

No one is saying akram was an out and out fast bowler. He had far too many other skills that he didn't have to bowl quick to get wickets. Problem is only when someone calls him an 115-125k bowler. Even binny bowls at 130k. In the later stages of his career he bowled in the 130-135 range. during 85-95 he defenitely was in the range 140-145.

Reg srinath even at the later stages of his career he easily bowled above 140. So he defenitely must be above 145+ in his prime.

Edited January 1, 2016 by renjith

[maniac]

Likes of steyn and even zak at his peak around 2007-2011 all had the ability to touch 140+ ...... They would be smart enough to slow down and exploit the conditions fully when it sweam and swings or up their pace if the ball was reversing a bit.

wasim was very similar...... He was probably one of the best exponents of reversing ever and to be effective reversing the ball you need to up your pace and he was really good at that.  In the video you posted above especially the nzl one he was not using reverse but plain moment of the seam and bounce on the pitch. So bowling at 130-135k probably gave him more control . Also it was a odi game so you need more control than out and out pace for no reason.

[Rightarmfast]

I have followed Wasim Akram's career from the very beginning. He was a very very good bowler....supremely skilled....capable of making the ball talk ...superb ability to swing and seam the ball .....bowl very good yorkers and bouncers....trouble the best of batsmen.

BUT Akram was not an out and out fast bowler....he was a FAST-MEDIUM pacer capable of some fast spells in his peak years.

 

 

Exactly my point!

 

I am not questioning Wasim as a bowler. Although I feel his record,especially his test record is mediocre going by the kind of bowler he was. I think he well could be history's best bowler ever. 

But a lot of people across the world, especially our neighbouring country try to make him a speed demon which he wasnt.

[express bowling]

No one is saying akram was an out and out fast bowler. He had far too many other skills that he didn't have to bowl quick to get wickets. Problem is only when someone calls him an 115-125k bowler. Even binny bowls at 130k. In the later stages of his career he bowled in the 130-135 range. during 85-95 he defenitely was in the range 140-145.

Reg srinath even at the later stages of his career he easily bowled above 140. So he defenitely must be above 145+ in his prime.

I don't think anyone is calling Akram a medium pacer. He was generally Fast-medium in his prime and also bowled  some genuine fast and some medium paced spells.

This topic is being raised because Akram is always tagged as " Left Arm Fast " whereas someone like Javagal Srinath was called " Right Arm Fast-medium ". 

Check ESPN Cricinfo...Javagal Srinath and Umesh Yadav are termed " Right Arm Fast-medium ". while Akram is " Left Arm Fast ".

Check out the following links ...

Wasim Akram's page as on 1 January 2016

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/43547.html

Umesh Yadav's page as on 1 January 2016

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/player/376116.html 

Javagal Srinath's  page as on 1 January 2016

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/player/34105.html

 

Till speedguns were regularly used, even McGrath and Shaun Pollock were classified as  " Right Arm Fast ". It was changed later on when speeds were regularly shown on TV.

Jason Gillespie, who bowled 135 k to 142 k for most of his career, is called  " Right Arm Fast ".

http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/content/player/5392.html

There is a lot of bias on this issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

People even believe that Courtney Walsh was fast . And he is classified as right arm fast. Whereas, his normal pace was around 130-133

[express bowling]

Just check some Javagal Srinath videos from Youtube and compare his pace with Akram

Srinath is looking really quick.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S2UbA50tGs

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by express bowling

[maniac]

People even believe that Courtney Walsh was fast . And he is classified as right arm fast. Whereas, his normal pace was around 130-133

both Walsh and Ambrose where 130-140 max.

but they could bowling those dangerous lengths and were some times unhittable.

the only  express bowlers I have seen are Shoaib,Brett lee , Shane bond and from the more recent generation tino best and Shaun tait.

waqar at best was a 145 k max.... Johnson apart from that one series was never super express and even than it was his length that made him lethal at 145-150(only occasionally)

j

[renjith]

I don't think anyone is calling Akram a medium pacer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

115-125K I would term as slow medium pace which was a bit of offensive to be associated with one of the best ever fast bowler to have ever played the game.

 

I understand the bias against Srinath mainly coz he is from India and nobody expected india to produce a fast bowler.

Edited January 1, 2016 by renjith

[express bowling]

115-125K I would term as slow medium pace which was a bit of offensive to be associated with one of the best ever fast bowler to have ever played the game. 

I never said he was a 115 to 125 k bowler. I said Akram was fast-medium most of the times in his prime...meaning 130 k to 142 k.

A fast bowler would be 135 k to 150 k.  

An Express bowler would be 145 k to 160 k

A Medium-fast bowler would be 125 k to 137 k.

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by express bowling

[renjith]

I never said he was a 115 to 125 k bowler. I said he was fast-medium most of the times in his prime...meaning 130 k to 142 k.

no no I did't mean you said it. Those speeds were associated with Akram in rightarmfast's first post. I guess he is very miserly when associating speeds with bowlers. Coz Walsh and Ambrose were also much quicker (probably 140) during the early parts of their career.

115k is something anybody who can rollover his arm with a decent run up can achieve. Doesn't even need to be a full time bowler.

[cric_fan]

Wasim generated zip off the pitch. His effort delivery is FAST. But being a intelligent bowler, he knew making the ball talk was of more importance.

Now Waqar in his pomp was FAST. Many batsmen will testify to that.

I think it was Brian Lara who said that Mohammed Zahid was the FASTEST bowler he ever faced- the guy was freakishly quick before the back injury- even Akhtar testified that Zahid was quicker of the two. The likes of Steyn rely on swing- rarely see him bowl at express pace. Akhtar and Lee were definately FAST.

I heard Walsh & Ambrose were both express at their best- when I started watching cricket, they were more fast medium.

[Rightarmfast]

no no I did't mean you said it. Those speeds were associated with Akram in rightarmfast's first post. I guess he is very miserly when associating speeds with bowlers. Coz Walsh and Ambrose were also much quicker (probably 140) during the early parts of their career.

115k is something anybody who can rollover his arm with a decent run up can achieve. Doesn't even need to be a full time bowler.

Kindly look at the 94 series match that I have posted. You can clearly make out that his pace is varying froom 115-130'sh max. I am not saying Wasim was always bowling at that pace. But in that video, atleast to me he doesnt look any quicker than that.

[Rightarmfast]

Wasim generated zip off the pitch. His effort delivery is FAST. But being a intelligent bowler, he knew making the ball talk was of more importance.

 

Now Waqar in his pomp was FAST. Many batsmen will testify to that.

 

I think it was Brian Lara who said that Mohammed Zahid was the FASTEST bowler he ever faced- the guy was freakishly quick before the back injury- even Akhtar testified that Zahid was quicker of the two. The likes of Steyn rely on swing- rarely see him bowl at express pace. Akhtar and Lee were definately FAST.

 

I heard Walsh & Ambrose were both express at their best- when I started watching cricket, they were more fast medium.

Not very sure about Zahid. He played matches against India at his prime. Mainly the Sahara cup in Canada around 96-97. He didnt threaten any Indian batsman with his pace. Not that he wouldnt be quick, but I think its again a hype created that he was blistering fast. Whereas, the moment Shoaib Akhtar entered the scene, he became a rage because of his pace. So much so, that he castled both Dravid and Sachin with his pace in his first outing against India.It was for everyone to see.

Mind you, around 95-97, the Indian batting was terrible against genuine pace bowlers. But Zahid was never a threat to them, and that to me translates to him not being as quick as he is labelled to be, now.