Thank You Kumble

[BeautifulGame]

Certainly not , that's your opinion . you do not speak for the sport nor can you draw conclusions . It might be the sad reality of Indian cricket but hopefully that changes soon .   Opinions aren't facts

 

Ofcourse it is.

 

It's fact not opinion.

 

 

[bleaf27]

Just now, BeautifulGame said:

 

Ofcourse it is.

 

It's fact not opinion.

 

 

It's an opinion , not a fact.  

What your understanding of cricket is your opinion of the sport not a fact which can be proven 

[CG]

1 minute ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

Ofcourse it is.

 

It's fact not opinion.

 

 

No it's not a fact.Sports evolve.Its old way of thinking .Ipl has shown how imp coach/manager role .Basically Tactics are already made in dressing room .In future captains will only lose more authority.

[BeautifulGame]

It's an opinion , not a fact.  

What your understanding of cricket is your opinion of the sport not a fact which can be proven 

 

It's not understanding but reality of the nature of sport that is cricket.

 

Tell me what a coach can do once the players enter the field ?

 

It's the captain who controls the team.

 

Much different from a sport like football.

 

That's why in cricket ,Captain is the most important.

 

People talk of great captains in cricket right from Brearly , Benaud , Chappell Imran to Border Ranatunga Dhoni Fleming.

 

Not coaches because cricket as a sport is dependent on the efficiency of the captain .Not coach.

[BeautifulGame]

No it's not a fact.Sports evolve.Its old way of thinking .Ipl has shown how imp coach/manager role .Basically Tactics are already made in dressing room .In future captains will only lose more authority.

 

If anything IPL just reiterates how important good captain is.

 

Warne Dhoni Rohit and Gambhir are living proof of that.Gilly as well in the past.

 

Great captains win you trophies .

 

 

 

[Khota]

Times they are changing.

Look at NFL quarterbacks. On their wrists they have 50 plays taped from which they can read. There is computer simulation generated pplay which are signalled to the qb and he reads and calls it.

captain cannot do it all. he will panic and make mistakes.

Coaches need to do it not captains. They should have inputs. If you are making decisions on the field it is too late. All decisions should be made beforehand.

[bleaf27]

3 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

It's not understanding but reality of the nature of sport that is cricket.

 

Tell me what a coach can do once the players enter the field ?

 

It's the captain who controls the team.

 

Much different from a sport like football.

 

That's why in cricket ,Captain is the most important.

 

People talk of great captains in cricket right from Brearly , Benaud , Chappell Imran to Border Ranatunga Dhoni Fleming.

 

Not coaches because cricket as a sport is dependent on the efficiency of the captain .Not coach.

In any sport , not just cricket , coaches do not enter the playing field so this isn't exclusive to only cricket.  It is for any sport

A coach has many roles -  as an educator / a mentor / psychologist , teacher , problem solver , an advocate ,  expertise etc...

He defines the roles of the players , whats expected of them , gives them the direction.  

Similarly how a student goes and writes an exam - the teacher doesn't   -  at the end of the day  It's the teacher who's guidance , direction and knowledge differentiates one student's performance from the other. 

[BeautifulGame]

Times they are changing.

Look at NFL quarterbacks. On their wrists they have 50 plays taped from which they can read. There is computer simulation generated pplay which are signalled to the qb and he reads and calls it.

captain cannot do it all. he will panic and make mistakes.

Coaches need to do it not captains. They should have inputs. If you are making decisions on the field it is too late. All decisions should be made beforehand.

 

Yeah that is illegal in Cricket and any captain /player does that will likely be banned for cheating.

 

 

[BeautifulGame]

 

In any sport , not just cricket , coaches do not enter the playing field so this isn't exclusive to only cricket.  It is for any sport

 

A coach has many roles -  as an educator / a mentor / psychologist , teacher , problem solver , an advocate ,  expertise etc...

 

He defines the roles of the players , whats expected of them , gives them the direction.  

 

Similarly how a student goes and writes an exam - the teacher doesn't   -  at the end of the day  It's the teacher who's guidance , direction and knowledge differentiates one student's performance from the other. 

 

 

 

 

Again missed the point.

 

 

In football , a coach can continue to communicate with the players from the side line throughout the match and make impact through substitutions which can impact.Captain has zero impact in the field apart from leading from the front.

 

 

That's why cricket is different.

 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

23 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

In no other team , would a coach of the Calibre of Kumble would be let go just because your captain is a fairy.  Kumble gave results , his cricketing acumen is well respected and He needs to let go because Kohli's ego is too big to handle.  I do not foresee Warne for example being fired if he and Smith does not get  along . It's a shame and superstar culture in Indian and Pakistani cricket is well known and condemned 

sorry players gave results not Kumble his playing days got over,he sat behind the computer and gave throwdowns and dressdowns to players. Good coach but not more important than captain and players.

[coffee_rules]

I had reservations of Indian coach for Indian team. Too many with crab mentality. They would rather listen to a gora than a fellow Indian.  Our best results started to come under Wright first. Even Kapil Dev had a tough time with SRT to be a coach. Ravi Shaz sipping Whiskey worked better because he toed Dhoni's line all the time and is BCCI's chaatu. AK probably rubbed the wrong with BCCI babus as well, as Kohli who seems to be a my-way-or-highway type of guy. Good luck with better results winning abroad in SA, Eng and Aus. 

[bleaf27]

Just now, BeautifulGame said:

 

Again not true.

 

In football , a coach can continue to communicate with the players from the side line throughout the match and make impact through substitutions which can impact.Captain has zero impact in the field apart from leading from the front.

 

That's why cricket is different.

 

 

Coaches do not play.......in the NHL they call the time outs / challenge goals and alter the lines - Regardless of that - they do not play. 

This discussion isnt where the coaches stand or communicate - In no sport the coaches can actually play - can they ?  Thus , cricket is no different , in every sport its the players who play , quite simple .

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again missed the point.

 

 

 

 

In football , a coach can continue to communicate with the players from the side line throughout the match and make impact through substitutions which can impact.Captain has zero impact in the field apart from leading from the front.

 

 

 

 

That's why cricket is different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

exactly Cricket captain = football coach 

one game i see a parallel role is gridiron for coach and quarterback.

[bleaf27]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

sorry players gave results not Kumble his playing days got over,he sat behind the computer and gave throwdowns and dressdowns to players. Good coach but not more important than captain and players.

Same players who when had 2007 world cup and meltdown during Chappell put all the blame on him despite having Sachin/ Saurav / Dravid and Ganguly in the team ? certainly no lack of talent in that side. 

[Vilander]

Just now, bleaf27 said:

Same players who when had 2007 world cup and meltdown during Chappell put all the blame on him despite having Sachin/ Saurav / Dravid and Ganguly in the team ? certainly no lack of talent in that side. 

chappell went Kumble went, i dont get your point. Players are more hard to develop than a coach, so obviously the coach steps down, what part of this is not clear.

[maniac]

Just now, bleaf27 said:

Coaches do not play.......in the NHL they call the time outs / challenge goals and alter the lines - Regardless of that - they do not play. 

This discussion isnt where the coaches stand or communicate - In no sport the coaches can actually play - can they ?  Thus , cricket is no different , in every sport its the players who play , quite simple .

Cricket it's a little different...the coach can plan at the start or send an odd message, but captain has to make on the spot decisions.

 

Its not like basketball or NFL where they have time to regroup every 4-5 minutes.

 

Coach can work if he is given a Andy Flower like power where he can make team related decisions. apart from Flower the only guy who I remember who was part of a similar model

was Greg Chappell and we know how it turned out.

 

Andrew Strauss I believe has a special

position too now but I doubt we have anyone right now of a big enough stature who can get in that role but still tough ask for the Indian setup.

 

Power lies in the hands of current cricketers or BCCI comprised of powerful politicians or businessman who handle the money aspects.

 

Rest in between are only namesake positions

[bleaf27]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

chappell went Kumble went, i dont get your point. Players are more hard to develop than a coach, so obviously the coach steps down, what part of this is not clear.

You don't get the point because your agenda / opinion is pre set so I'll try simplify it for you because whatever is being said it quite large for your comprehension.

You are undermining the importance of coach in cricket and aren't giving the coach the credit for how the team does.

Thus , in a point form for you

When team does bad =  Coach was blamed = Chappell

When team does well  = Coach should get the credit = Kumble 

Comprende ?

[HippoSucks]

36 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

In Indian cricket primarily , that's how unfortunately the system of superstars in this country has made the system to be moulded. 

No, that is how it works in every team. If Smith has a problem with their coach, they aren't going to sack Smith.

[bleaf27]

Just now, maniac said:

Cricket it's a little different...the coach can plan at the start or send an odd message, but captain has to make on the spot decisions.

 

Its not like basketball or NFL where they have time to regroup every 4-5 minutes.

 

Coach can work if he is given a Andy Flower like power where he can make team related decisions. apart from Flower the only guy who I remember who was part of a similar model

was Greg Chappell and we know how it turned out.

 

Andrew Strauss I believe has a special

position too now but I doubt we have anyone right now of a big enough stature who can get in that role but still tough ask for the Indian setup.

 

Power lies in the hands of current cricketers or BCCI comprised of powerful politicians or businessman who handle the money aspects.

 

Rest in between are only namesake positions

That's the sad part because regardless of the sport , The Indian and Pakistani team and cricket culture always has been very superstar / big name dominant.   Focus and spotlight has always been on the captain only.   The Indian and Pakistani setup is a status quo system where Coaches are mere puppets who should just take the back seat and speak when spoken to and just polish the captain's shoes.

If this isn't a system which is designed to cater to superstar's ego , then what is ?  This is encouraging an environment which is highly tilted in the favor or captain and them running the show  . Kumble was one guy who if given the right support by the administrators could have changed it but his loss is horrendous for Indian cricket all due to Kohli's fairy ass unable to handle any critcism or dicscipline Kumble might have tried to introduce. 

[Vilander]

4 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

You don't get the point because your agenda / opinion is pre set so I'll try simplify it for you because whatever is being said it quite large for your comprehension.

You are undermining the importance of coach in cricket and aren't giving the coach the credit for how the team does.

Thus , in a point form for you

When team does bad =  Coach was blamed = Chappell

When team does well  = Coach should get the credit = Kumble 

Comprende ?

first up learn how to disgree, what agenda can i possibly have ? Kumble got credit for his good work as coach ok, now players do not want him as coach, players got more of the credit for their good work so their decision stands, pretty simple. Coach goes not the players.