Why are we so slow?

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

You guys are only slow in the first ten overs. The rest of the time you guys are fast.

Ind also has problems accelerating towards the end, esp in T20s. Until Hardik/Jadhav arrived, we never had batsmen (apart from Raina to some extent), who could score very rapidly in closing overs. It's a problem common to all SC teams, esp in T20 - namely, power hitting.

[WC2011INDIA]

3 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

You know I liked this guy KL Rahul. Why is he not in your ODI side currently? Seems like a nice aggressive batsmen you could use in the opening.

Injury prone. Gets injured after 2-3 games. Thankfully, he survived Australia test series else we would have been toast. But immidiately after that he got injured.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, WC2011INDIA said:

Injury prone. Gets injured after 2-3 games. Thankfully, he survived Australia test series else we would have been toast. But immidiately after that he got injured.

Would have been French toasted indeed. He was a one man army, apart from Chepu in 1 match.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

What the heck does he do to himself? He only had to bat 50 overs. Not sprint a marathon.

KL Rahul is the type of guy who gets injured when breathing or walking (or taking a dump). He's very fragile - like a Disney princess

 

A pity since he's India's next potentially top-notch batsman.

[SUMO]

No.4 is such a crucial position. It should go to a class player capable of playing test (good defence) and accelerating ability.
Currently best in the world are ABD, Ross and Morgan(not perfect, averaging less but helped by stokes butler etc.)
I look for a guy who average 50+ in first class(or 40+ in tests) with good hitting ability to take no 4 spot.
Thats why my hopes are on KLR, Hooda and Pant.

[Rasgulla]

Everything needs to be approved by Mr.bunty  from here on

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, SUMO said:

No.4 is such a crucial position. It should go to a class player capable of playing test (good defence) and accelerating ability.
Currently best in the world are ABD, Ross and Morgan(not perfect, averaging less but helped by stokes butler etc.)
I look for a guy who average 50+ in first class(or 40+ in tests) with good hitting ability to take no 4 spot.
Thats why my hopes are on KLR, Hooda and Pant.

Morgan is not good enough as Ross Taylor, let alone ABD

[SUMO]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

Morgan is not good enough as Ross Taylor, let alone ABD

thats what I said...ABD is a absolute beast what we require is Ross kind of player that will be enough to partner virat in middle order.

[Vijy]

15 minutes ago, SUMO said:

thats what I said...ABD is a absolute beast what we require is Ross kind of player that will be enough to partner virat in middle order.

Pity Dhoni is on the decline. His stats at 3 and 4 otherwise were even better than ABD (although limited sample size).

[SUMO]

 

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Pity Dhoni is on the decline. His stats at 3 and 4 otherwise were even better than ABD (although limited sample size).

yes, Dhoni would have had many more runs and 100s had he batted in top 4. Saurav wanted him to bat up the order even though he was proving to best finished.

[Vk1]

10 hours ago, CG said:

If only academies and infrastructure could make up no 1 then England would have long dominated most sports .Academies and Facilities can raise the standard of your AVG cricketer but not produce genius.You see teams who dominated cricket had the best bowling line ups of their time.You had genius like Shane Warne and Glen McGrath .India's bowling culture particularly fast bowling culture is developing I would expect one or two near 25 AVG test bowlers next gen for us to dominate cricket.

English football gives a bad example as the other footballing nations are equally or many times more mad about football than eng and produce quality pool of players. New Zealand has what some 300 players in total and they keep punching above their weight. Lalit Modi had a vision that bccis coffers could expand by 10 times more in 2005, if only some one had this vision that our team could reach the zenith and stay there. In the past we had these theories that our players are not strong or fit enough poor fielders, less money etc...Now those have been overcome..It's time to go beyond the competition

Edited June 29, 2017 by Vk1

[Vk1]

Rishabh pant sometimes reminds me of Jayasuriya. He can murder the bowling on his day if he gets to open on a flat track. Some may think international bowlers may stifle him but we have seen in ipl...He can decimate any attack.. To me he can walk into any team in the world right now even England.

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Rishabh pant sometimes reminds me of Jayasuriya. He can murder the bowling on his day if he gets to open on a flat track. Some may think international bowlers may stifle him but we have seen in ipl...He can decimate any attack.. To me he can walk into any team in the world right now even England.

why do you say "even Eng"? The Eng ODI team is not the best in the world since its only comprised of flat track bullies - they whinged both against green pitch against SA and against slow pitch against Pak.

 

Moreover, Jayasuria was not as great in ODIs as he's made out to be. An avg of 32 at SR @91 is very good, but not comparable to other openers such as Gilly & Sehwag.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Vijy

[Vk1]

10 minutes ago, Vijy said:

why do you say "even Eng"? The Eng ODI team is not the best in the world since its only comprised of flat track bullies - they whinged both against green pitch against SA and against slow pitch against Pak.

 

Moreover, Jayasuria was not as great in ODIs as he's made out to be. An avg of 32 at SR @91 is very good, but not comparable to other openers such as Gilly & Sehwag.

Because you will get to play 8 out of 10 on such flat pitches.  Jayasurya was a nightmare for us...Between 1996 and 2000. We simply had no clue 

[Vijy]

Just now, Vk1 said:

Because you will get to play 8 out of 10 on such flat pitches.  Jayasurya was a nightmare for us...Between 1996 and 2000. We simply had no clue 

jayasuria was excellent against sub-par (mostly SC) bowling, which is what India has mostly had. Against Oz he averaged 20 and 24 against SA - the two strongest pace attacks of his career. If Pant turns out to be minnow against every strong team, he will be quite useless. I hope he will be more like Gilly in Tests and ODIs.

[maniac]

The one thing you can't blame the BCCI for is how it has taken care of its cricketers...probably people might have heard horror stories like this in the 80s but we don't hear any more  tragic stories like a first class cricketer driving a auto rickshaw/Taxi or working in a grocery store like we hear from the west and our neighbors. Even a guy who has played 1 FC game is set now. So BCCI here has done a top notch job and is way ahead of its peers.

 

Training facilities are also pretty decent to where they were a few years back.

 

Likes of Sreeni and Dalmiya deserve a lot of credit for such things.

 

Now since the good stuff is out of the way, let us see some of the negatives.

 

This is just my assumption but since  every cricketer now gets a good paycheck and his stomach is filled ,he really doesn't care any more how much the BCCI babus make .This means the surplus after all the basic necessities are taken care of may not be spent where it's supposed to due to lack of accountability.This means there is a lack of modern infrastructure.

 

It was really painful for me to see a game in the Eden Gardens a couple of years ago when it got abandoned because of wet ground conditions after only a few hours of rain...and this is supposed to be our very own Lords. Now sure maybe there are some problems due to the drainage system and it could be complex to install a new one in such an old ground.I don't know that for sure but what amazed me is that there weren't even Helicopters available to help around and this is not very uncommon these days.

 

So where is all the money going from the revenues for a ground that has max capacity and such  a rich tradition?

 

forget discoops or switch hits or helicopter shots ...how difficult it is to rent a helicopter for such situations?

 

Then next thing is Talent firms...I am a big supporter of the concept of talent firms and I opened a thread on here many years ago that probably got lost in obscurity. However we see firms like the Bunty Sajdeh one or Rhiti sign up already established stars or Tenvic which is more regional in nature....are there any firms that scout at a more ground level and promote

such raw talents like they do in the USA with NBA? Sure BCCI can follow this model atleast with IPL by contracting such firms . What do we see? we still see frickin Munaf Patel, Manpreet Gony and Irfan Pathan getting contracts  

 

BCCI follows a simple old corporate  model....pay employees well enough ...just like a corporate desk job employees Become  lazy and just do the bare minimum....they will spend  money only for basic amenities that's it and who cares as long as we get a game. When the organization runs like that obviously there is going to be no innovation.

 

International cricket too in India in recent years has become a clique...so where is the hunger or why should there be a hunger among new players? Jadeja was rubbed in to our faces till he became good but at what cost? Harbhajan and Nehra still have enough pull to be in the scheme of things. Yuvraj still plays...so would a new player rather keep his performances to the IPL level and increase his value to the franchise or try something out of the box and try to break through?

 

sorry if the rant is all over the place but tried to point out as much as I can with what's wrong as to why innovation is not coming through.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by maniac

[Vk1]

Just now, Vijy said:

jayasuria was excellent against sub-par (mostly SC) bowling, which is what India has mostly had. Against Oz he averaged 20 and 24 against SA - the two strongest pace attacks of his career. If Pant turns out to be minnow against every strong team, he will be quite useless. I hope he will be more like Gilly in Tests and ODIs.

Surprised to see such low averages for jayasurya against aus n RSA. I should check his avg betn 96 and 02 when he was at his best. He would perhaps be a even better batsman in today's pitches. 

[Vijy]

7 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Surprised to see such low averages for jayasurya against aus n RSA. I should check his avg betn 96 and 02 when he was at his best. He would perhaps be a even better batsman in today's pitches. 

yes, he would average much more now. But, that's because of a general inflation of averages. Trott would have averaged late 30s or early 40s IMO if he played in early to late 1990s (like Fairbrother, Hick, Knight) unlike his current avg of 50+

[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Surprised to see such low averages for jayasurya against aus n RSA. I should check his avg betn 96 and 02 when he was at his best. He would perhaps be a even better batsman in today's pitches. 

not very surprising. Jayasuria was much better when there was no pace - hence, he did well against Ind, Bang, Eng, etc. Against Pak and WI, he did decently but not great (32-33 avg).

[Vk1]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

yes, he would average much more now. But, that's because of a general inflation of averages. Trott would have averaged late 30s or early 40s IMO if he played in early to late 1990s (like Fairbrother, Hick, Knight) unlike his current avg of 50+

Yes I agree what was 40s in 90s is now 50s today. Economies changed from 4 to 5