Dhoni back in Top 10 ODI batting rankings [Joint at Top 10]

[Khota]

1 hour ago, sscomp32 said:

 

 

And then people wonder why this site is going down  

Carry on TrollMod  

Dhoni addict and calling mod a troll. Hypocricy much?

[Vilander]

11 minutes ago, Khota said:

Controlled means:

 

In statistics, controlling for a variable is the attempt to reduce the effect of confounding variables on an observational study. It means that when looking at the effect of one variable, all other variable predictors are held constant.

 

Let us say Vilander scores 10 runs against Brett Lee and I score 100 against Nathu Lal. Looking at simple stats shows I am better but since the variable in this case is the bowler we cannot honestly say I am better. You may be way better.

 

Like I said before cricket averages done straight up are meaningless.

Yeah just that this is not a chemical analysis where you normally know everything about some variable and none about the other. All variables like pitch opposition weather are eaually contributive and unknown meanining more inclusive sample gives better results so consider all games in the period he is rated top 10. He ia being called top ten now in odi thats all meaning consider the games in the period. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Vilander

[Khota]

2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Not intended for your khote account. Intended for the obvious troll one.lol

It is khota not khote. Calling me khote is not being nice. It does not matter.

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, Khota said:

It is khota not khote. Calling me khote is not being nice. It does not matter.

Ok my appologies it kinda stuck. Khota it is.

[Khota]

5 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Yeah just that this is not a chemical analysis where you normallynknow everything aboutbsome variable and none about the other. All variables like pitch opposition weather are eaually contributive and unknown meanining more inclusive sample gives better results so consider all games in the period he is rated top 10. He ia being called top ten now in odi thats all meaning consider the games in thw period. 

Yes agreed pitch, weather etc are the variables that contribute. That is why IPL is a great metrics because over 8 weeks you play on the same pitches against the same bowlers. That average means something.

Dhoni on the other had has padded his stats against SL.

[Khota]

6 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Ok my appologies it kinda stuck. Khota it is.

You dont have to apologize. You are a good person. Just because you and I disagree does not mean either of us is bad.This is all fun.

[Laaloo]

7 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

Mod = Troll/baiter = site loosing visitors. 

I appreciate good posts when I can. It's not my fault you like to stay in denial.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Laaloo

[Laaloo]

1 hour ago, sscomp32 said:

 

 

And then people wonder why this site is going down  

Carry on TrollMod  

Huh? We have had a lot more activity in the last month or so. This site is going up up and up. You can keep whining about icf though. Carry on.

[Laaloo]

32 minutes ago, Khota said:

Dhoni addict and calling mod a troll. Hypocricy much?

That's ok. People tend to get abusive when they don't want to deal with facts. It doesn't affect me though. 

[Khota]

Let us enjoy the discussion and not call names.

I love the response from Villander and others.

We enjoy cricket and let us keep discussing. We need each other. We are all brothers here maybe sisters but I have not seen one.

I am here to learn from you guys. Diferent point of view is good for my  growth.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Khota

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

I have not posted enough on the site. I may not have the privilige to start a post. Can you do that and I will duly respond.

Who said u need privilege to write anything 

U wanna make a point make it , write a post with reason and ull have a debate . 

U dnt need license to post here 

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, Khota said:

 IPL is a better metrics because over a two month period you are exposed to the same pitches and same set of bowlers. This is more meaningful .

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I think what you are trying to say in a slightly confusing manner over many posts are that .....

 

In tournaments like the IPL 

1.  All batmen have to face similar bowlers in this tournament over 14 to 17 matches,
2. The nature of pitches and weather are similar too.
3. As the time-span is condensed, issues regarding not having matches when in better form, are ruled out too.
4. Taking points 1 to 3 into account ...... the basis for comparison among the batsmen is apparently better in the IPL.

these are valid points 

 

BUT

 

Problems are 

1.  These are not international matches and many top players may not play with the same pride and effort as they do for their countries.
2. Batsmen coming in to bat later in the order do not get as much chances as top order batters.... so, comparison is not always fair.
3. A player maybe good in ODIs and tests but bad in T20s... those formats are not tested at all.
4.  14 to 17 games may not be sufficient data, especially for short, 20-over games.

 

Ranking systems are never perfect in any sport, no matter how you do it.   However, they can be used as one of the parameters, along with other parameters, to form a more complete opinion.

Edited September 7, 2017 by express bowling

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, Khota said:

Let us enjoy the discussion and not call names.

I love the response from Villander and others.

We enjoy cricket and let us keep discussing. We need each other. We are all brothers here maybe sisters but I have not seen one.

I am here to learn from you guys. Diferent point of view is good for my  growth.

The problem is one needs to be open to aquire knowledge. If you have decided on an opinion and want to stand by it then yeah you could. Here the crucial point is ipl and odi can not be mixed up, you can argue that Dhoni is not a good ipl batsman or not a good t20 batsman based on that but his ranking is in an entirely diff sport odi. It like saying a half marathon medalist is a poor 100 meter runner..could be but irrelevant to his ability in half marathon. 

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, Khota said:

Yes agreed pitch, weather etc are the variables that contribute. That is why IPL is a great metrics because over 8 weeks you play on the same pitches against the same bowlers. That average means something.

Dhoni on the other had has padded his stats against SL.

He also padded against wi bd and england well thats half the odi sides. And a bilateral is also in similar pitches against same bowlers but international. Besides ipl is ipl t20 domestic format odi is international one day. 

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, Laaloo said:

I appreciate good posts when I can. It's not my fault you like to stay in denial.

Lol...you are just a troll and an unfunny one. 

[Laaloo]

7 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Lol...you are just a troll and an unfunny one. 

yeah start the sentence with a Lol and call me unfunny  

[Khota]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Who said u need privilege to write anything 

U wanna make a point make it , write a post with reason and ull have a debate . 

U dnt need license to post here 

I started it once and it got merged.

Some sites have a rule that you have to have minimum 500 posts before you can start a thread.

Thanks

[Khota]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I think what you are trying to say in a slightly confusing manner over many posts are that .....

 

In tournaments like the IPL 

1.  All batmen have to face similar bowlers in this tournament over 14 to 17 matches,
2. The nature of pitches and weather are similar too.
3. As the time-span is condensed, issues regarding not having matches when in better form, are ruled out too.
4. Taking points 1 to 3 into account ...... the basis for comparison among the batsmen is apparently better in the IPL.

these are valid points 

 

BUT

 

Problems are 

1.  These are not international matches and many top players may not play with the same pride and effort as they do for their countries.
2. Batsmen coming in to bat later in the order do not get as much chances as top order batters.... so, comparison is not always fair.
3. A player maybe good in ODIs and tests but bad in T20s... those formats are not tested at all.
4.  14 to 17 games may not be sufficient data, especially for short, 20-over games.

 

Ranking systems are never perfect in any sport, no matter how you do it.   However, they can be used as one of the parameters, along with other parameters, to form a more complete opinion.

I agree with you on most of the counts.

 

Here are my disagreements:

 

1. You are correct but with the kind of money generated in IPL these top batsman and bolwer will have their best performance for IPL if they want the best contract next year. This will be resolved in 5 years.

2. That is true. Someone with a Ph.D in stats can in two days come up with some sort of metrics to resolve that. By the same token the openers are facing fresh bowler and fresh fileders but you underline point is correct.

3. We will have to look at IPL stats for 2017 to verify that. Last I checked the good batsman did well in IPL.

4. More games will definitely yield better data but 15 games are better than 3.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

The problem is one needs to be open to aquire knowledge. If you have decided on an opinion and want to stand by it then yeah you could. Here the crucial point is ipl and odi can not be mixed up, you can argue that Dhoni is not a good ipl batsman or not a good t20 batsman based on that but his ranking is in an entirely diff sport odi. It like saying a half marathon medalist is a poor 100 meter runner..could be but irrelevant to his ability in half marathon. 

Like I said I am here to learn. I look at everything and I come to one conclusion that Dhoni has peaked and he is definitely not top 10 material.

[Vilander]

10 hours ago, Laaloo said:

yeah start the sentence with a Lol and call me unfunny  

Its a cynics laugh at your pathetic state. U r thick as well.