Padmavati trailer- Wahhhhhhhhh

[TM Riddle]

13 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Sure we are. Army of savages went a lot other places too, in the same timeframe. The spaniards, the Georgians, the Byzantine women - they are all more respectable than the Rajput woman. because they chose to live and struggle, than a quick death. I am also not judging modern Rajputs. Just their cowardly ancestors. There is no honour, no glory, in suicide. None. zero. 

 

If your wife was in the same position as the Rajput women, i HOPE you wish her to live through the rape, abuse and slavery- in the faint hope that ONE DAY she can be free, instead of killing herself to preserve her purity. 

I know I do !

 

Yes I would she rather die than fall in hands of those barbarians.

Again different cultures , different people.Not sure whether you are capable of understanding that.

[TM Riddle]

@Muloghonto First Sikhs in the other thread and now Rajputs.You sure do have a lot of hate brimming inside you.If only you spent half the time thinking about ways to save your state from collapsing and falling to muslim terror again .....

I can see another partition coming :)

[Muloghonto]

27 minutes ago, TM Riddle said:

@Muloghonto First Sikhs in the other thread and now Rajputs.You sure do have a lot of hate brimming inside you.If only you spent half the time thinking about ways to save your state from collapsing and falling to muslim terror again .....

I can see another partition coming :)

Hate ? You really think i 'hate' long dead people who have 0% influence on my life ? Thats laughable.

 

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Yes I would she rather die than fall in hands of those barbarians.

Again different cultures , different people.Not sure whether you are capable of understanding that.

To wish death before dishonour, means you love honour more than the person. Simple logic. Yes, i know its a different culture, but such cowardliness needs to be called out for what it is.

 

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There were Guhils/Gehlots in that era.Bappa Rawal was a vessel to Pratiharas.

There are zero coins, inscriptions, etc. of Bappa Rawal. Bappa-Rawal is not history, its mythology & folklore. Like Robin hood. 

 

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Thats a nice convenient excuse but the things you have mentioned have been part of Indian history in every era.Deceptions and treachery have been a common theme across indian history ,  nothing new there.

Yes, but there is also a religious component to this. Pratiharas were Hindus. Pals were Buddhists. Rashtrakutas were Jains. You really want to focus on how these religions backstabbed each other, in India, to hand over India on a plate, to the outsider, in a country with so low literacy ? Bad idea.

But as i said, the MAIN reason, why that period of history is consigned to university level and not high school is because its quite complicated and too vast, with also a lot of unanswered questions in it.

 

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Labelling a whole community as ''cowards'' just because they chose to die then face the humiliation of defeat shows your class and upbringing.On one hand we have people appreciating and celebrating the distinct hindu traits of chivalry , protectors of asylum seekers and following rules of dharma in the battles and otoh we have the modern intellectuals like yourself shamelessly painting a whole community with the same brush just because it doesnt fit with your narrative. I m done arguing with you.Have a good day sir.

They are dead people. With 0% influence on our current lives. If we can't talk honestly about that kind of a topic, then we can't expect honesty in ANY topic. 

Thats the whole point - i don't consider Rajputs chivalrous. Those who commit suicide, are not chivalrous, they are cowards. Infact, suicide in modern medicine is most commonly linked to depression, not valour.

 

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PS: Oh and for all our faults the parts around Rajputana still retained the hindu majority while look what happened to your beloved Bengal.Got divided once due to muslims almost forming around the same numbers as Hindus and on its path again to get divided furthermore if the  bengali hindus dont wake up this time around too

Nobody denied that after the Pals, Bengal is a big fat zero in anything political or military, until the arrival of the British. But hey, give me Bengalis or Biharis or UP-ites who converted and lived to tell the tale, than cowards who killed themselves and burnt their women and children for some fanciful notion of honour over survival. 

Those who value murder and suicide over survival, simply have no place in being glorified for their struggle.

 

I consider Rajputs as murderer of children - their own. I am sorry, but you don't get to glorify child murder. Just as you don't get to glorify genocide, rape, loot, etc. I can clearly tell, you are not a parent. Because if you were a parent who loves their kid no matter what, you'd wish your child to be a sex slave over being dead. These kind of harmful and lowly values need to be weeded out of Indian cultures -including the Rajputs- than glorified.

 

PS: following rules of dharma in battle is a common myth propagated by Rajput communities to explain their laughable failures. There is plenty of evidence that Rajputs conducted night warfare, conducted raids, etc. As they should. A Warrior's job is to win a war by killing his enemy combatants. I don't care if he does it via poison, at night, by flooding the camp, by trampling them under elephants.Get. the. job. done. Rajputs failed and then invented ludicrous stories of 'dharmic warfare'. Nobody practiced 'dharmic warfare' because Dharmic warfare is an oxymoron. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Muloghonto

[TM Riddle]

Thats a load of BS in one single post.Probably the most I have ever seen in my entire forum life.

Re people surviving and living to tell the tale , well its a bit hard after you are converted and all the stories you know are from arabia.Oh but I m sure those muslims from UP and Bihar who converted to save themselves and whose descendents later played a crucial role in creation of pakistan would agree with you.I mean they survived right just like 50% bengalis who were too meek and small to fight and resist and thus chose to abandon their centuries old dharma for a new barbarian religion.I would rather have "coward' rajputs protecting the dharma rather than a bunch of good for nothing dwarves from Bengal who have allowed their state to turn into **** where even durga puja is banned.No wonder you have so much hatred in you.

LOOL there you go my hindu friends this pseudo intellectual here has busted the whole hindu myth of dharmic warfare.Such a shame.Yes of course Rajputs spread these notions of dharma to hide their ineptness.Makes perfect sense lol

Edit : Did you just claim there are no inscriptions of Bappa Rawal? Shows your knowledge of Indian history.And here I thought I was debating with a guy with some legs to stand on when it comes to subcontinental history.You just wasted my whole time.

Edited October 14, 2017 by TM Riddle

[Muloghonto]

24 minutes ago, TM Riddle said:

Thats a load of BS in one single post.Probably the most I have ever seen in my entire forum life.

Ok. So point out the BS. 

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Re people surviving and living to tell the tale , well its a bit hard after you are converted and all the stories you know are from arabia.Oh but I m sure those muslims from UP and Bihar who converted to save themselves and whose descendents later played a crucial role in creation of pakistan would agree with you.I mean they survived right just like 50% bengalis who were too meek and small to fight and resist and thus chose to abandon their centuries old dharma for a new barbarian religion.I would rather have "coward' rajputs protecting the dharma rather than a bunch of good for nothing dwarves from Bengal who have allowed their state to turn into **** where even durga puja is banned.No wonder you have so much hatred in you.

Subcontinental muslim converts kept their caste system, kept their ancestral tales, kept their social structure. This is self-evident. 

And yes, i consider it much braver, to survive under a system that oppresses you, than seeking a quick and easy death. 

But then again, you said you'd prefer your wife died/killed herself when dishonoured, so i don't expect much from people who value honour over people's lives. They are the definition of cowards and sociopathic cultural values. Especially when these are sociopathic values that involve murdering your own child.

 

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LOOL there you go my hindu friends this pseudo intellectual here has busted the whole hindu myth of dharmic warfare.Such a shame.Yes of course Rajputs spread these notions of dharma to hide their ineptness.Makes perfect sense lol

It does.Which is why there is zero evidence of this so-called dharmic Rajput warfare and so much evidence of 'kill your enemies on the battlefield any which way you can'. We have plenty of evidence of night raids, ambushes, switching sides in middle of battle, from the Pratiharas. Against their own Indian kin. And you wish us to believe these nonsensical stories of Rajput honour when it came to foreign muslims. Laughable nonsense.

 

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Edit : Did you just claim there are no inscriptions of Bappa Rawal? Shows your knowledge of Indian history.And here I thought I was debating with a guy with some legs to stand on when it comes to subcontinental history.You just wasted my whole time.

There are a couple of  'inscriptions' that mentions Bappa-Rawal,  from 1400s, written by an unrelated Rajputs, saying he was the father of Khumana. 

Again, zero inscriptions from his time or from his dynasty, zero coins bearing his name or seal. Zero mention in any history- Rajput or otherwise, till hundreds of years later, when the folklore around him got strong. Identical to Robin hood. Nothing exists to even hint Bappa-Rawal existed for a 500 year period spanning his existence. 

This is true for a lot of mythological characters of folklore, spanning many cultures. Robin Hood is the most common example of it. 

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

As for 'respecting a community', its clear who is insulting the community and people of TODAY and who is commenting on long-dead people and HISTORY, with zero effect on people's lives.

 

[Muloghonto]

 I will clarify what i mean, when in earlier posts, i called Rajputs to be brave and now i call them cowards.

 

Rajputs were extremely brave and resolute people, militaristically. If we consider the Pratiharas as Rajputs, we can see, that from early on, the Pratiharas are quite organized on the battlefield, with excellent military discipline and were one of the very, very few medieval cultures, that knew the art of orderly retreats. Countless examples exist, from Rashtrakuta records for e.g., which show,that the Rajputs were known to not just tuck tail and run away, when the battle got hard.

 

Most medeival armies suffered catastrophic losses, usually when the presiding king/general gets slain. To fight orderly battles, even if your supreme commander takes a stray arrow in the face and dies in front of you, is a trait we only see amongst the Romans of the ancient world, in a consistent basis. In medieval times, i can't be sure, but i rate the Rajput ability to fight the odds on the battlefield, as well as the propensity to withdraw in good order when all is lost, to be remarkable by world standards. 

 

Even our most hated oppressors have mentioned this. Babur for e.g., flat out dismisses the Rajput battle tactics, as out-dated and moronic, but was more impressed with the Rajput than his own troops, for discipline. Rajputs breaking and running away on the battlefield is one of the rarest occurrences. Yes, they did Fack-up orderly retreats, but orderly retreats when your commander is dead, is not a perfect science in the first place. No society over long period does it well and usually the 'remarkable slaughter' is after the army breaks, tries to run away and fails in the chaos.

 

However, a society can be both cowardly in its ethos and brave at the same time - medeival Rajputs are a testament to this. On one hand, fighting them was like fighting the Honey Badger (for those who don't know this creature- look it up, even Lions know better than fight a honey badger usually). On the other, their practices like Jauhar are as abhorrable as Sati. People killing their own children so their way of thinking does not change. 

 

It is a heinous crime against humanity, against your own kin, to kill them- when they themselves pose no threat to other people individually and directly,because their thinking or status changed. They are gonna get raped, enslaved, fed 2 rotis a day and beaten ? well, thats horrible. Obviously no one should condone this and prepare to fight for this. But killing ones own child, one's own kin - i am sorry, but if there is any fundamental directive of species homo sapiens, its the fundamental objective of all noted species : to survive. To kill your child, is to fundamentally fail as a human being, as a parent, for a fate no-matter how bad, i would want people to survive it at the very least and live. If they wish to end their own lives to end the misery, that is completely their own right ( i support euthenesia) but they should make that right. You don't get to kill a child (unless a child has done something so horrible that the threat to society from said child is unjustified). That is the main objection i have to the Rajput culture : its a death cult, that fundamentally has failed to achieve its objectives historically and on top, glorifies killing babies and immolating the old and the sick, so they don't 'lose honour'. 

 

I will also point out, that Rajputs are not the big-daddies of 'honour based death-cult behaviour, for warrior or warrior caste' . They are a heavyweight in this whole 'honour' business,no doubt. But there is only one, ultimate, all-time champion on honour based culture, where every single concept of honour is held to very high standards of cultural requirement.

That honour would go to pre 1945 Japan & Bushido culture. People killed themselves due to stupidly high 'honour infringement' - i killed your boss, aka you failed to protect your liege lord - too bad, you were taking a dump at that moment/busy fighting off 4 other guys trying to kill him-he died. On your watch. If you want honour and not be branded a POS brigand outlaw, go to the courtyard and open your stomach with your own sword and not make a sound please. This was so commonplace that Bushido tradition even had a system for WHERE you should go execute yourself the most painful way imaginable ( cutting through your belly and entrails, spleen to liver). Welcome to Samurai culture. The 'Rajput-fans' amongst us, if they really care so much about honor, should pick up a book on medical Japanese culture an give it a read. They would love it, if they actually value honour above everything else. 

 

[Texy]

Hindus always had unity problems...never united....hence these savages were able to come over and kill and convert so many...

[zen]

Below is what the likes of ISIS and Taliban do even now 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/14/asia/taliban-family-freed-canada-boyle-speaks/index.html

 

 

[coffee_rules]

^Claims seems to be dubious,  they had 3 or 4 babies in captivity, taliban refutes these claims, the guy was married to the sister guantanamo bay detainee, now all of family seems to be muslim converts...refuse to board US plane...very fishy details..

 

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/mystery-freed-taliban-hostages-refuse-board-u-s-plane/

Edited October 15, 2017 by coffee_rules

[MechEng]

On 10/10/2017 at 12:20 PM, maniac said:

I always get this argument from apologists and Pakistanis that even Ashoka was evil and killed people,he is considered great where as the Muslim kings are considered barbarian but the basic premise of Ashoka's story was of redemption he was a evil war monger who saw the way of his deeds and became a saint

 

on the other hands these idiots were barbarians sowed the seeds of some stupid ideology and ethics that still causes 90% of the worlds problems with violence and terrorism.

 

Not weird for a Pakistani to not see that...totally expected.

 

on Topic any glorification of the evil

idiot king by Bollywood and I will stop watching Bollywood movies for ever regardless of how "artistic" and "visually" stunning it is

One big difference is that the Indian Kings never attacked for religious reasons but for wealth and power. Ashoka never invaded lands because they worshipped a different God. It's relatively better to invade for power/wealth than for religion, because an invasion for religious reasons is seen as a morally right thing to do (doing it for god) and you never care about being  mindful of your actions due to moral superiority.

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, MechEng said:

One big difference is that the Indian Kings never attacked for religious reasons but for wealth and power. Ashoka never invaded lands because they worshipped a different God. It's relatively better to invade for power/wealth than for religion, because an invasion for religious reasons is seen as a morally right thing to do (doing it for god) and you never care about being  mindful of your actions due to moral superiority.

Indian kings, like European kings (towards Europeans) were civilized. They, as you say, conquered for power & money. Sometimes, for geo-strategy. Which is why you NEVER hear about how Ashoka demolished a city or Vikramaditya destroyed a city, etc.

Same reason, why when you read about the 100 years war between England and France or Napoleon conquering almost all of Europe, there is nearly zero stories of demolishing a town or city. Because why the heck would you kill people & destroy their city, if the same people pay taxes and enrich you ? Only if you are a bigot, thats why. 

 

 

Sure, it did happen, every once in a while (The Rashtrakutas utterly destroyed Kannauj for e.g., Cholas utterly destroyed Dharanikota). 

 

And yes, Indian kings did sometimes fight for religion. We have poems in Tamil, celebrating the Pallava attacks on Dharanikota, forcing Buddhist monks to have sex with each other and replacing all Buddha statues with the Shivalinga. 
But these instances in Indian history for 2000 year period of pre-Islam, is comparable to 20 years of Islamic genocide & destruction. 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Muloghonto

[MechEng]

On 16/10/2017 at 2:52 PM, Muloghonto said:

Indian kings, like European kings (towards Europeans) were civilized. They, as you say, conquered for power & money. Sometimes, for geo-strategy. Which is why you NEVER hear about how Ashoka demolished a city or Vikramaditya destroyed a city, etc.

Same reason, why when you read about the 100 years war between England and France or Napoleon conquering almost all of Europe, there is nearly zero stories of demolishing a town or city. Because why the heck would you kill people & destroy their city, if the same people pay taxes and enrich you ? Only if you are a bigot, thats why. 

 

 

Sure, it did happen, every once in a while (The Rashtrakutas utterly destroyed Kannauj for e.g., Cholas utterly destroyed Dharanikota). 

 

And yes, Indian kings did sometimes fight for religion. We have poems in Tamil, celebrating the Pallava attacks on Dharanikota, forcing Buddhist monks to have sex with each other and replacing all Buddha statues with the Shivalinga. 
But these instances in Indian history for 2000 year period of pre-Islam, is comparable to 20 years of Islamic genocide & destruction. 

 

Lol!, that's *ed up! I'm pretty sure this was fictional poetry and not an actual event. No king in the right sense of mind would come up with something like this.

[Muloghonto]

17 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Lol!, that's *ed up! I'm pretty sure this was fictional poetry and not an actual event. No king in the right sense of mind would come up with something like this.

I don't see why not. Hindus have also had genocidal maniacs amongst them- rarer, sure but they are there. Ofcourse, the king is not in their right mind to do it, but i see no reason to think why this didn't happen, yet the Tamils will continue to glorify these gory details in their Sangam literature for 1000+ years later......

Jagannath temple in Orissa for eg, was originally a Buddhist temple.