20 years back, on this day - Tendulkar outwits Warne

[Bublu Bhuyan]

33 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Sachin is only batsmen whom his fans in particular argue as ATG batsman and many of those rate him higher than Don Bradman.That is problem  and that is point of debate.Sachin in any book does not fit profile of greatest batsmen of all time.

Of course Sachin fans will have bias for him and will rate him as the greatest. Just like Pakistani fans have a bias for Imran Khan and consider him the greatest all rounder ever, even though the entire cricketing fraternity considers Garry Sobers as the one and only greatest.

 

Why do Sachin fans consider him the greatest? Because the cricketing fraternity considers him as one of the very best ever. It's not like the rest of the world doesn't consider him one, yet the Sachin fans keep insisting.

 

Why do you think he made Bradman's XI, Benaud's XI, WISDEN's XI, Cricinfo's XI? Why couldn't Ponting, Lara, Kallis, Sangakkara, etc make it to those teams? Were they compiled by Sachin fans? David Gower compiled his list of 50 greatest cricketers and he placed Sachin at #3, just behind Bradman and Sobers. Why? You've got to think about it, why does he keep receiving unrepresented applauds from the cricketing fraternity? Why did Richie Benaud consider him the greatest batsman he has ever seen since the time of Bradman? Why exactly? The only thing you might say is that they're all sell outs and under the payroll of the BCCI who made those lists, like a lot of Pakistanis do.

 

It would have been a completely different matter if he had merely numbers by his side with no more applaud than the rest of the greats, but he leaves the rest of the greats bar Sobers, Viv and Bradman into dust when it comes to peer reputation. One is not born with that, you have to earn it. Why couldn't the rest of the greats earn even 10% of the peer reputation/respect that he did, bar Brian Lara? What prevented them? When a player receives such universal acclaim, of course his die hard fans will claim him to be the greatest.

 

At the same time no one is asking you to follow suit. You have the liberty to have your own opinion, but you can't really force your opinion down other people's neck. You see there's simply no point in name calling and hurling childish insults at others.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Bublu Bhuyan

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, Bublu Bhuyan said:

Of course Sachin fans will have bias for him and will rate him as the greatest. Just like Pakistani fans have a bias for Imran Khan and consider him the greatest all rounder ever, even though the entire cricketing fraternity considers Garry Sobers as the one and only greatest.

 

Why do Sachin fans consider him the greatest? Because the cricketing fraternity considers him as one of the very best ever. It's not like the rest of the world doesn't consider him one, yet the Sachin fans keep insisting.

 

Why do you think he made Bradman's XI, Benaud's XI, WISDEN's XI, Cricinfo's XI? Why couldn't Ponting, Lara, Kallis, Sangakkara, etc make it to those teams? Were they compiled by Sachin fans? David Gower compiled his list of 50 greatest cricketers and he placed Sachin at #3, just behind Bradman and Sobers. Why? You've got to think about it, why does he keep receiving unrepresented applauds from the cricketing fraternity? Why does Richie Benaud consider him the greatest batsman he has ever seen since the time of Bradman? Why exactly? The only thing you might say is that they're all sell outs who made those lists, like a lot of Pakistanis do.

 

It would have been a completely different matter if he had merely numbers by his side with no more applaud than the rest of the greats, but he leaves the rest of the greats bar Sobers, Viv and Bradman into dust when it comes to peer reputation. One is not born with that, you have to earn it. Why couldn't the rest of the greats earn even 10% of the peer reputation/respect that he did? What prevented them? When a player receives such universal acclaim, of course his die hard fans will claim him to be the greatest.

 

At the same time no one is asking you to follow suit. You have the liberty to have your own opinion, but you can't really force your opinion down other people's neck. You see there's simply no point in name calling and hurling childish insults at others.

He made all those XI's because he was great that is never point of debate.The debate is all about if he was the greatest, no one claimed Ponting, Kallis, or Sanga as greatest of all time.Lara some have argued and made case about him being greatest.

 

Sachin is definitely one of the greats of this game but he simply is not the greatest. I never said you asked me to follow your suit.I am just offering my two cents on your argument.Is it the point of any forum, offering different views and presenting different perspectives.

 

Who said rest of the greats did not earn 10% his reputation. People fear of backlash of massive Indian fan base and BCCI if they keep sachin out of any all time XIs too that is one of the main reasons in my opinion he is featured in most people's XI.

 

Bradman just said Sachin played like him but it is most often construed as Bradman saying Sachin was as good as him.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

He made all those XI's because he was great that is never point of debate.The debate is all about if he was the greatest, no one claimed Ponting, Kallis, or Sanga as greatest of all time.Lara some have argued and made case about him being greatest.

 

Sachin is definitely one of the greats of this game but he simply is not the greatest. I never said you asked me to follow your suit.I am just offering my two cents on your argument.Is it the point of any forum, offering different views and presenting different perspectives.

He is not the undisputed greatest, history considers Bradman to be the greatest. But he is line for the honor of being the second greatest along with Sobers, Viv and Hobbs. WISDEN in 2002 rated him the second greatest Test and ODI batsman of all time. Why exactly? It's true that none of innings till that point made WISDEN's list of their top 100 innings. But the fact that WISDEN rated him the second greatest ever clearly means that they consider him better than the rest bar Bradman.

Who said rest of the greats did not earn 10% his reputation. People fear of backlash of massive Indian fan base and BCCI if they keep sachin out of any all time XIs too that is one of the main reasons in my opinion he is featured in most people's XI.

Just like I said previously, conspiracy theories started floating. Unfortunately conspiracy theories have no place in the real world. What matters is he made those lists, the rest did not. Which great apart from Sobers and Viv have earned equal or maybe more peer reputation than him?

Bradman just said Sachin played like him but it is most often construed as Bradman saying Sachin was as good as him.

Bradman included him in his All Time XI. Not even Viv made it. Why?

[Bublu Bhuyan]

1. Bradman

2. Hobbs/Sobers/Viv/Sachin

 

That's how I see it. But I'm speaking of only batsmen. If we're speaking of cricketers then Bradman and Sobers are much ahead of everyone else. Nobody apart from Bradman is even close to Sobers.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Bublu Bhuyan

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, Bublu Bhuyan said:

Bradman included him in his All Time XI. Not even Viv made it. Why?

Viv is named wisden's Five cricketers of the century but Sachin is not one of them why??? You have ask Bradman on why he included Sachin and excluded Viv.

 

Warne made the that five greatest cricketers list too but Sachin did not make it.Why??

[Bublu Bhuyan]

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Viv is named wisden's Five cricketers of the century but Sachin is not one of them why??? You have ask Bradman on why he included Sachin and excluded Viv.

 

Warne made the that five greatest cricketers list too but Sachin did not make it.Why??

Because that list was made in 2000, and Sachin was not even halfway through his career. Apart from Warne, each and every other cricketer of that list finished their respective careers. Also, I was specifically speaking of batsmen, not cricketers. I mentioned that before, didn't I? Let's have a look at those 5 cricketers

 

Bradman - I already said he's the greatest batsman and the greatest cricketer ever

 

Sobers - I have already said no one apart from Bradman comes close to him as a cricketer

 

Hobbs - I mentioned him previously, please have a look. According to me he is a contender of being the second greatest batsman ever.

 

Warne - He was a bowler. And Warne absolutely revolutionized leg spin bowling.

 

Viv - I mentioned him before. Once again, he's a contender of being the second greatest batsmen ever.

 

 

But most of all, all of those 4 batsmen finished their respective careers long ago. Sachin was just 11 years into his career. Simple. I never discredited those honorable cricketers previously, did I? They deserve the honor.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Bublu Bhuyan

[Bublu Bhuyan]

Like I said before, I don't consider him the undisputed best batsman ever. However, I do believe that he has a strong claim of being the  second greatest batsman ever. Sobers, Viv and Hobbs too have equally strong claims of being the second greatest batsman ever. There are guys like George Headley and Graeme Pollock who have enormous peer appreciation and are considered among the best. Unfortunately they played very little international cricket and hence (in my opinion) don't qualify.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Bublu Bhuyan said:

Like I said before, I don't consider him the undisputed best batsman ever. However, I do believe that he has a strong claim of being the  second greatest batsman ever. Sobers, Viv and Hobbs too have equally strong claims of being the second greatest batsman ever. There are guys like George Headley and Graeme Pollock who have enormous peer appreciation and are considered among the best. Unfortunately they played very little international cricket and hence (in my opinion) don't qualify.

Like I said before also in many posts before, Tendulkar in my book is a great batsmen but never was head and shoulders above his peers as many made him out to be.

 

He also never translated his enormous talent he had into match winning contributions for his team as he should have done it.One of main reasons for that is he never got to learn art of scoring big hundreds as he was blooded too young.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

Like I said before also in many posts before, Tendulkar in my book is a great batsmen but never was head and shoulders above his peers as many made him out to be.

 

He also never translated his enormous talent he had into match winning contributions for his team as he should have done it.One of main reasons for that is he never got to learn art of scoring big hundreds as he was blooded too young.

Big hundreds or marathon innings in Test cricket is defined by 150+ knocks. Guess which batsman has the most 150+ knocks in test cricket history? Sure, he does not have the most double hundreds or any triple hundreds, I'll have to agree. But then again, Viv Richards has no triple centuries either, and he has just 3 double hundreds compared to Sachin's 6 double hundreds.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Bublu Bhuyan

[rtmohanlal]

5 hours ago, Bublu Bhuyan said:

Big hundreds or marathon innings in Test cricket is defined by 150+ knocks. Guess which batsman has the most 150+ knocks in test cricket history? Sure, he does not have the most double hundreds or any triple hundreds, I'll have to agree. But then again, Viv Richards has no triple centuries either, and he has just 3 double hundreds compared to Sachin's 6 double hundreds.

For these sort of people, big hundreds are defined by only 'numerical value',no importance to the context  these inns are achieved like quality of opposition,bowling strength , home or abroad etc etc. That's why a 201  of Sehwag  vs SL would always be better than the 169  of Sachin vs SAF for them.

[kira]

15 hours ago, putrevus said:

Viv is named wisden's Five cricketers of the century but Sachin is not one of them why??? You have ask Bradman on why he included Sachin and excluded Viv.

 

Warne made the that five greatest cricketers list too but Sachin did not make it.Why??

You mean the same wisden which rated sachin as the second greatest test and odi batsman in 2002, and which list of warne are you talking about, as far as I remember warne has always rated sachin among the top 3 

[Bublu Bhuyan]

For the sane fans, please ignore troll posts. It leads to nowhere. Besides, never feed a troll. Any posts that has no substance to it instead consists of hate or childish insults or a statement not backed up by logic or facts are not worth replying to. And the more you feed the trolls, the more they will troll. Please refrain yourselves.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

Looks like a certain troll's post has been deleted, LOL. Ironically, I made my previous post in response to that troll's trolly post.

[rtmohanlal]

2 hours ago, Bublu Bhuyan said:

Looks like a certain troll's post has been deleted, LOL. Ironically, I made my previous post in response to that troll's trolly post.

 

3 hours ago, Bublu Bhuyan said:

For the sane fans, please ignore troll posts. It leads to nowhere. Besides, never feed a troll. Any posts that has no substance to it instead consists of hate or childish insults or a statement not backed up by logic or facts are not worth replying to. And the more you feed the trolls, the more they will troll. Please refrain yourselves.

yes.... that is  the best way to deal with  such frauds... 'never respond to their posts' . Hope all sensible posters here be aware of this fact.

[putrevus]

On 3/13/2018 at 11:39 PM, Bublu Bhuyan said:

Big hundreds or marathon innings in Test cricket is defined by 150+ knocks. Guess which batsman has the most 150+ knocks in test cricket history? Sure, he does not have the most double hundreds or any triple hundreds, I'll have to agree. But then again, Viv Richards has no triple centuries either, and he has just 3 double hundreds compared to Sachin's 6 double hundreds.

Many argue this about this Richards including his own team's fast bowlers."he was never after stats and all he cared was winning so he never chased any records".

 

Richards as a test batsman I would not put him as greatest.He had one of the greatest year statistically in 1976 but he never reached that heights again.

 

But what differentiated Richards with his peers is his SR.Sachin on other hand played two hundred tests and has 6 double hundreds which is a very poor return for batsman who is in conversation of being greatest of all time. 

[Vilander]

On 3/12/2018 at 9:44 AM, UnknownGenius said:

I don't know if Sachin owned McGrath or the other way but getting out LBW to a McGrath bouncer was LOlworthy

 

 

It's ducking 129k he should have nailed it over the cow corner. 

[Vilander]

On 3/11/2018 at 7:18 AM, narenpande1 said:

 I am not blind like your lot. 

 

I am rational and fair. I don’t elevate someone by blind worship. I have never said that he is not a true great.. but so are many of his peers. He does not stand out as his irrational Bhakts want others to believe. Statistically and factually others are as great. Sangakkara was a god damn keeper, also captain and Ponting was a long time captain - huge responsibilities. Tendulkar just had to focus on his batting for most of his career. Yet he does not stand out 

 

You are correct in terms of net value Kalli provided more value.  Sanga kept in odi not in tests but had a bigger peak than Sachin .  Pontings batting and his captaincy puts him on par with Sachin probably he also had a higher peak. 

 

Kallis is one guy who did well.. But when you consider top opponents only Sachin just edges him out.  And when you consider Sachins test and odi he clearly outshines everyone including viv. Sachin is a great player fans who call him god etc are morons and are sabotaging his legend much like what he did himself chasing that 100th 100.

[Vilander]

On 3/13/2018 at 1:43 PM, Bublu Bhuyan said:

1. Bradman

2. Hobbs/Sobers/Viv/Sachin

 

That's how I see it. But I'm speaking of only batsmen. If we're speaking of cricketers then Bradman and Sobers are much ahead of everyone else. Nobody apart from Bradman is even close to Sobers.

Kallis. Sachin+zak

[Hydra]

But, but Tendulkar is god anyone who disagrees is an idiot Tendulkar is not fit to polish the Dons boots.

[NameGoesHere]

On 12/03/2018 at 7:14 PM, UnknownGenius said:

I don't know if Sachin owned McGrath or the other way but getting out LBW to a McGrath bouncer was LOlworthy

 

 

Hit him on the shoulder, not helmet as the You Tube video suggests.