Khaleel Ahmed needs to go back to bowling 138 kph to 148 kph ... like he was doing in early 2018

[express bowling]

Khaleel Ahmed   0  for 37  from 4 overs   in the 3rd T20I.

 

Fastest     139 k

Average    132 k

 

Still bowling much slower.

 

Frankly speaking, he bowled well in his first 3 overs.  A very expensive 4th over messed his figures.

 

With the skill range he is displaying, If he can go back to his normal high pace, he can be a handful.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by express bowling

[mishra]

^ my theory is , Any skill , consistently around 135, Generally requires a very helpful bowling condition to be threatening.

You must be consistently above 140k with skill to be able to be called as threatening pacer.

 

There is massive difference in threat level if you start touching  90mph.

At around 100mph, you dont need skill. 100mph in itself is skill

Edited November 12, 2018 by mishra

[mishra]

On 11/8/2018 at 6:37 AM, SUMO said:

Bharat Arun ko kuch to karna hai na paisa kis chiz ka le rha.

See a coach genuinely wants to make a pacer better. He goes by books. But they also must realise that everyone game and physical abilities are different. Accept it, moove on

[speedheat]

Give him one more series, series in Australia , check if he has improved on pace or not, kick his @ straight to domestic otherwise.

[express bowling]

13 hours ago, mishra said:

^ my theory is , Any skill , consistently around 135, Generally requires a very helpful bowling condition to be threatening.

You must be consistently above 140k with skill to be able to be called as threatening pacer.

 

There is massive difference in threat level if you start touching  90mph.

At around 100mph, you dont need skill. 100mph in itself is skill

 

Absolutely  !

 

At 140 k to 145 k or higher, even a little movement with reasonable accuracy is very difficult to handle, especially if the bowler gets some bounce.

 

But at 130 k to 135 k  or lower  ...  the skill level needed to succeed by the pacer is unusually high and very few people have it unless they have played 10+ years of international cricket with success.  Pinpoint accuracy, consistent and significant movement or steep bounce and ability to read the situation very well are needed then.

 

Pacers in the first 10 years of their careers, should strive to bowl 135 k to 145 k range atleast  ...  with sufficient accuracy and bounce.   It is much easier to succeed in all conditions this way  than swing bowling at 125 k to 135 k.

[mishra]

^ remember this @express bowling @rkt.india

When i saw Khaleel first time i felt he pottentially can and will achieve this. So so talented. I just hope he doesnt go Irfans way. Watch 5 mins of pure simple ecstasy

 

 

[mishra]

^ look at the grip there last bowl. That ball is going to swing miles. Thats what i am saying. Arun should know this very well. Tell the bowler dynamics of ball vs opening of chest. Let khaleel keep these as surprise delivery

[rkt.india]

23 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ remember this @express bowling @rkt.india

When i saw Khaleel first time i felt he pottentially can and will achieve this. So so talented. I just hope he doesnt go Irfans way. Watch 5 mins of pure simple ecstasy

 

 

this series was the downfall of Irfan Pathan.  i wont advise anyone to follow Irfan.  He is the worst example and this was nothing to be honest.  It may look good but those were highly helpful conditions.  His previous two tests on this tour were horrendous.  He just got lucky with the fresh green pitch and winter morning.  Look at the pace, it was 119-123 kph. you can be successful with that pace once in a while when you get such conditions but not in long term.  There are plenty other great bowlers to look forward to.  Forget about him.

[rkt.india]

19 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ look at the grip there last bowl. That ball is going to swing miles. Thats what i am saying. Arun should know this very well. Tell the bowler dynamics of ball vs opening of chest. Let khaleel keep these as surprise delivery

but that grip was the biggest reason of his downfall.  I will never advise anyone to adopt that grip.  Grip does not make the ball swing.  it is the conditions that does.  He had same grip in first two tests and was horrendous. Just got lucky in the 3rd test to get the pitch and conditions like these.

[mishra]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

this series was the downfall of Irfan Pathan.  i wont advise anyone to follow Irfan.  He is the worst example and this was nothing to be honest.  It may look good but those were highly helpful conditions.  His previous two tests on this tour were horrendous.  He just got lucky with the fresh green pitch and winter morning.  Look at the pace, it was 119-123 kph. you can be successful with that pace once in a while when you get such conditions but not in long term.  There are plenty other great bowlers to look forward to.  Forget about him.

Its not about speed. Speed is natural. Its about art of swing. Dynamics of ball. My point is, every One who is 140+k should know exactly that. Aruns job is to impart that knowledge. 

Look at Unesh. Guy allways takes his eyee of the ball right before releasing. You cant be accurate. In my personal experience, i have observed that keeping the eye onto ball till last mins just slows u down by a mile or so. Nothing more. Infact if you do this cautiously, after a over u dont loose any speed. Your natural action finds a bit of discomfort but it adapts. And if u are 140k bowler, you can loose a mile in first over but become lethat with accuracy and swing

[urnotserious]

On 11/5/2018 at 5:30 AM, ShoonyaSifar said:

Maybe, leave it to the bowler to decide how confident he's about executing those skills at high pace in international matches? Who are we to judge? He's already  shown more skills in int'l cricket than he did in domestic cricket where all he had was raw pace with limited movement.

 

Remember we are talking about a young bowler with hardly any FC experience under his belt. So better to be patient with him and let him grow into his int'l career and not go down the path of Varun Aaron who has taken 6-7 years to finally learn moving the ball regularly. I'm not saying he should not bowl fast, just saying let him get there step by step.

Who are we? We are the ones paying for him to perform his art. I'm here to get entertained and these trundlers DO NOT entertain me so they need to get the F out of here. I want to watch people that perform at their highest levels which is why I watch international cricket and not gully cricket on TV. So if you are not of that caliber I do not have patience for you and would like for you to go back to gully cricket.

 

I'd rather watch Varun Aaron steam in, hit 148K and be glanced down the leg for a four over Khaleel trundle in at 132K and watch the batsman sweep him for four. Anyday.

[rkt.india]

On 11/5/2018 at 5:00 PM, ShoonyaSifar said:

Maybe, leave it to the bowler to decide how confident he's about executing those skills at high pace in international matches? Who are we to judge? He's already  shown more skills in int'l cricket than he did in domestic cricket where all he had was raw pace with limited movement.

 

Remember we are talking about a young bowler with hardly any FC experience under his belt. So better to be patient with him and let him grow into his int'l career and not go down the path of Varun Aaron who has taken 6-7 years to finally learn moving the ball regularly. I'm not saying he should not bowl fast, just saying let him get there step by step.

No.  He had shown all those skills in domestic cricket as well but bowling at higher pace.

[rkt.india]

 

 

Here is McGrath's bowling video from 2003 WC, consistently between 135-142 combining it with that accuracy and bounce from the height of 6'5".  The reason he was so good.  135-142 is the minimum pace a bowler must have to be successful in all conditions and survive in long term in international cricket along with good accuracy and skills.  Good bounce from good height is an added advantage.

 

[Global.Baba]

Khaleel has looked way more threatening than guys like Bhuvi and Umesh Yadav. Even Shami looked off color in limited overs.

 

We are too hung up on pace. He has shown a calm head which is rare for an Indian seamer who loses the plot after a couple of boundaries. In the final T20 he bowled 3 very good overs. Last over was unfortunate as even the commies pointed out, it was just a batsman having a good day on a flat pitch in an unforgiving T20 format. His bowling was never poor or wayward.

 

I do agree that having a pace is a great add-on. At this stage I would rather take a young seamer with a lot of skills and hope he works on increasing his pace than a guy who reads 145+ on a speed gun but bowls gun barrel straight and gets carted all over.

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Khaleel has looked way more threatening than guys like Bhuvi and Umesh Yadav. Even Shami looked off color in limited overs.

 

We are too hung up on pace. He has shown a calm head which is rare for an Indian seamer who loses the plot after a couple of boundaries. In the final T20 he bowled 3 very good overs. Last over was unfortunate as even the commies pointed out, it was just a batsman having a good day on a flat pitch in an unforgiving T20 format. His bowling was never poor or wayward.

 

I do agree that having a pace is a great add-on. At this stage I would rather take a young seamer with a lot of skills and hope he works on increasing his pace than a guy who reads 145+ on a speed gun but bowls gun barrel straight and gets carted all over.

but he has looked threatening only when he bowled quick.  whenever he bowled slower than his usual pace, he got thrashed and looked innocuous.

[Global.Baba]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

but he has looked threatening only when he bowled quick.  whenever he bowled slower than his usual pace, he got thrashed and looked innocuous.

Even his quickest in internationals on an average from what I am seeing so far  is between 135-140. Don’t think he will ever be a 150 bowler.

 

Agreed that dipping below 130 is unacceptable

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Even his quickest in internationals on an average from what I am seeing so far  is between 135-140. Don’t think he will ever be a 150 bowler.

 

Agreed that dipping below 130 is unacceptable

I am only talking about pace between 135-142.  he may or may not be 150 who knows but he has bowled up to 148K and consistently 140-145 in domestic cricket.  Bowled 145 even in Asia cup. Also Starc bowled similar pace at the same age as Khaleel.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Khaleel has looked way more threatening than guys like Bhuvi and Umesh Yadav. We are too hung up on pace. He has shown a calm head which is rare for an Indian seamer who loses the plot after a couple of boundaries.

 

As I keep on saying ...  it does not have to be an " either /  or "  scenario.  If we want to develop all condition pacers who can reach the top ...  we need to find pacers who combine pace and bounce with skills and temperament.

 

Bhuvi has suffered because he lacks pace and bounce.  Umesh has suffered because he lacks sufficient skills and temperament.   Both are incomplete pacers and not long term answers.

 

I don't won't Khaleel to be another incomplete pacer.

 

 

3 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

At this stage I would rather take a young seamer with a lot of skills and hope he works on increasing his pace than a guy who reads 145+ on a speed gun but bowls gun barrel straight and gets carted all over.

 

But Khaleel was bowling 138 k to 148 k in domestic LO matches.  And he bowled 133 k to 143 k / 145 k in the Asia Cup.  And he bowled well in all those tournaments and displayed a lot of skills.

 

And that is the whole point of this thread.

 

It is not as if he is a skilled medium pacer who needs to increase his pace.

 

He has the natural pace and has displayed a lot of skills at that good pace.  So, why does he need to drop so much pace  ?

 

 

3 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

 

Shami looked off color in limited overs.

 

Shami has been allowed to play only 6 ODIs in the last 42 months.  That too 1 or 2 ODIs at a time at huge gaps.  

 

How can you expect him to settle down in this format with such a treatment meted out  !

 

When Shami was a regular in ODIs, he averaged 25.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Even his quickest in internationals on an average from what I am seeing so far  is between 135-140.

 

I had posted the fastest balls bowled in the Asia Cup before the final match.

 

Khaleel was the 2nd fastest bowler of the tournament behind Bumrah, among all the teams ...  and he bowled lots of 140 k to 145 k balls, even though he played just 2 matches.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

Speedometers have errors,he wasn't bowling outright quick but khaleel had decent pace ,but the ones operating the speedometer weren't able to judge it properly ,thats why there were so many fluctuations .

 

ultimately speed is in the hands of the speedometer operator.

 

Speedguns are not operated ball by ball by humans in international cricket matches. 

 

The quality of the equipment picked and the setting up process have some human judgement factor.

 

Bumrah was bowling consistently quick with the same speedguns in use.

 

Khaleel gets zip and bounce off the deck ...  so he looks quicker than his release speeds suggest.

Edited November 15, 2018 by express bowling