Dhoni v Rahim - who has been better wk-batsman in tests?

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

and Andy Flower was ordinary keeper against both pace and spin.

But he was their best batsman, just like Sanga was to SL. SA ruined ADBV by overuse, keeping is hard job and if your best batsman is your keeper you are better off as a team to find new keeper.

[raki05]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Since when Boucher is called better batsman than Dhoni. Healy are you kidding me is better than Dhoni.Sanga or ABDV don't count becuase they played majority of their career as batsmen. You just saw what happened with ABDV when he was forced to become keeper after Boucher .

 

Alex Stewart is better batsman but I am not sure he is better keeper than Dhoni. There is noone better than Dhoni other than Adam Gilchrist and Andy Flower.Dhoni has his issues as a keeper against fast bowling but he is beast against spinners.

Do you read before typing or just type, I said better keeper bat. Doesn't mean only better bat , all the name which i mentioned are better than dhoni in either one or both of the department. Apparently Boucher and Healy was better test keeper than Dhoni, heck even Saha is better than him. Moreover moot point is he is not an ATG coz  to be considered an ATG one should be ATG in test cricket which he is clearly not.

[putrevus]

21 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Firstly there is no category as a ATG keeper-bat. If that is the criteria and we put Dhoni in it, then we need to work our way towards inducting likes of Prior and even guys like Sarfaraz Ahmed and Kamran Akmal as 2nd tier ATGs lol.

 

You are either an ATG keeper or you are an ATG allrounder. Gilchrist makes a case for being an ATG allrounder and on keeping skills alone having kept to Warne,McGrath,McGill,Lee,Gillespie  etc etc on various pitches and being a safe keeper he makes the ATG keeper category as well.

 

On Pure keeping skills Dhoni is not even as good as Mongia and More. 

 

As an allrounder we have all acknowledged he is Indias 2nd biggest MVP since Kapil Dev which makes him an Indian ATG handsdown.

 

In ODIs as a lower order bat and add to that his keeping he is definetely a 2nd tier ATG with Gilchrist being the only guy in the first tier in that category.

 

If you have an ATG attack of McGrath,Akram,Warne, Murali and Kallis or Ambrose in your line up, would you risk a keeper like Dhoni keeping to 3 guys who would create so many chances between keeper and skip? Or play it safe with someone like Dujon with Gilchrist being a shoo in of course. 

Dhoni as a keeper to spinners was better than Mongia or More.He might not have started that way but he still today is best keeper to spinners in the world, he is better than Saha also.

Dhoni is bad against fast bowlers becuase he lacks anticipation and is not aggressive enough.

 

[The Dark Horse]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Dhoni as a keeper to spinners was better than Mongia or More.He might not have started that way but he still today is best keeper to spinners in the world, he is better than Saha also.

Dhoni is bad against fast bowlers becuase he lacks anticipation and is not aggressive enough.

 

No way Dhoni is better than Saha in keeping in any way. 

[The Dark Horse]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

but Sanga did that as a specialist batsman, not as a wk/batsman. Sanga should not even be named as a WK/bat because he did not keep for two-thirds of his career and only blossomed as a batsman when he gave up keeping. why are you missing this point.  according to your logic even ABDV is an ATG WK/bat because he also was a keeper.

 

here is a record to look at.  Sanga as a designated keeper in Aus, SA, NZ, WI, England means outside SC averages 26 in 13 tests.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/50710.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;keeper=1;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=allround

Link not working..

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, The Dark Horse said:

Link not working..

working fine for me

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, raki05 said:

Do you read before typing or just type, I said better keeper bat. Doesn't mean only better bat , all the name which i mentioned are better than dhoni in either one or both of the department. Apparently Boucher and Healy was better test keeper than Dhoni, heck even Saha is better than him. Moreover moot point is he is not an ATG coz  to be considered an ATG one should be ATG in test cricket which he is clearly not.

No they are not better keepers than Dhoni, they might be better against fast bowlers but Dhoni is best against spinners.Saha is not better keeper against spin bowlers.

 

He is an ATG test keeper.All time overall in tests he would be no3.Overall as a keeper I would put in on par with Adam Gilchrist.

Edited November 15, 2018 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

On 11/14/2018 at 4:57 PM, raki05 said:

Do you have any evidence to show that dhoni was better keeper than flower, prior or Stewart. Looks like fast stumping in last few years have brainwashed many people, who simply forget how he used to drop catches in test or letting it pass through between him and sleep. Dhoni is inferior to prior, Stewart and much inferior to flower and just like these players are no atg dhoni as well is not.

i have watched all three of them that is enough for me to say who was better who was not.  

[rkt.india]

On 11/14/2018 at 1:36 PM, raki05 said:

Than you should also consider batting position one was opening in English condition and another was piling on flat decks on the back of 200-300 run partnerships at 6th position. BTW if all these players were havin almost same AVG as dhoni how does he became ATG in test ,when none of these aforementioned names are not.

Samarveera averaged 52 in tests. Is he an ATG?  same way those are also not ATGs.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, The Dark Horse said:

No way Dhoni is better than Saha in keeping in any way. 

Saha is not better keeper for spinners than Dhoni.Saha overall maybe tad better.People are underestimating Dhoni.Yes he should have done more overseas .

 

Pant has a chance to become great becuase he is better batsman than Dhoni as long he keeps improving his keeping.

[Austin 3:!6]

Are we seriously still discussing this about this joker?


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[raki05]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

No they are not better keepers than Dhoni, they might be better against fast bowlers but Dhoni is best against spinners.Saha is not better keeper against spin bowlers.

 

He is an ATG test keeper.All time overall in tests he would be no3.Overall as a keeper I would put in on par with Adam Gilchrist.

. If you think Saha is bad keeper than him and dhongi is ATG in test and on par with Gilli  I rest my case. coz u r talking like Pakistanis who talks without objective and for them everyone is ATG in their team.Live in it bubble where dhoni is ATG in test and on par with Gilly, even biggest of dhoni chamchas would laugh on this.

[raki05]

7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Samarveera averaged 52 in tests. Is he an ATG?  same way those are also not ATGs.

Including dhoni.

[Austin 3:!6]

@raki05 - Dhoni is an ATG bruv. Yes he is finished now but he gave us so many memories that we cannot ignore. Lets learn to appreciate the great players we have produced. Cricket is not only about avgs or stats...its much beyond that.

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[raki05]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

i have watched all three of them that is enough for me to say who was better who was not.  

Ya just like you watched Ishan Porel bowling at 145-150.

[raki05]

12 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

@raki05 - Dhoni is an ATG bruv. Yes he is finished now but he gave us so many memories that we cannot ignore. Lets learn to appreciate the great players we have produced. Cricket is not only about avgs or stats...its much beyond that.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

Talk is abt test cricket why you guys mixing the format.Is he atg in test ,no, Gilly is only atg wk bat and to some extent Andy flower none else.

Edited November 16, 2018 by raki05

[putrevus]

13 hours ago, raki05 said:

. If you think Saha is bad keeper than him and dhongi is ATG in test and on par with Gilli  I rest my case. coz u r talking like Pakistanis who talks without objective and for them everyone is ATG in their team.Live in it bubble where dhoni is ATG in test and on par with Gilly, even biggest of dhoni chamchas would laugh on this.

Did I say Saha was bad keeper, if he was better he would have replaced Dhoni. You can think whatever you want about him.Dhoni with his odi credentials and tests is on par with Gilli. Dhoni averages over 50 in odis and Glily averages around 35 , if you think it is easy then you have no clue. 

 

Your thinking is biased like Pakistanis not mine, I try to be fair in my analysis.Dhoni as a keeper added so much value to Indian team. 6 hundreds and 33 fifties is no walk in park for a keeper. Matt Prior was better test batsman than Dhoni but his odi credentials are zero.

 

You are comparing fricking Bairstow and Boucher with Dhoni that should say it all.

 

[putrevus]

13 hours ago, raki05 said:

Talk is abt test cricket why you guys mixing the format.Is he atg in test ,no, Gilly is only atg wk bat and to some extent Andy flower none else.

Even in test cricket Dhoni is an ATG keeper.

[The Dark Horse]

31 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Did I say Saha was bad keeper, if he was better he would have replaced Dhoni. You can think whatever you want about him.Dhoni with his odi credentials and tests is on par with Gilli. Dhoni averages over 50 in odis and Glily averages around 35 , if you think it is easy then you have no clue. 

 

Your thinking is biased like Pakistanis not mine, I try to be fair in my analysis.Dhoni as a keeper added so much value to Indian team. 6 hundreds and 33 fifties is no walk in park for a keeper. Matt Prior was better test batsman than Dhoni but his odi credentials are zero.

 

You are comparing fricking Bairstow and Boucher with Dhoni that should say it all.

 

Noone is questioning his ODI credentials...as a test cricketer he's not comparable to Gilly...in your words fricking Dhoni is not comparable to Gilly (in tests).

[raki05]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Did I say Saha was bad keeper, if he was better he would have replaced Dhoni. You can think whatever you want about him.Dhoni with his odi credentials and tests is on par with Gilli. Dhoni averages over 50 in odis and Glily averages around 35 , if you think it is easy then you have no clue. 

 

Your thinking is biased like Pakistanis not mine, I try to be fair in my analysis.Dhoni as a keeper added so much value to Indian team. 6 hundreds and 33 fifties is no walk in park for a keeper. Matt Prior was better test batsman than Dhoni but his odi credentials are zero.

 

You are comparing fricking Bairstow and Boucher with Dhoni that should say it all.

 

Why u r bringing odi all the time. Dhoni is biggest ftb  With a batting AVG of 19,27,37,21 in aus,sa, eng and wi.  And how conveniently u put him alongside Gilly who is GOAT keeper, ftb like dhoni is not fit to tie his shoes. Have u even seen the difference in batting AVG it's *ing 10 run per match  xtra. Keep the hype to urself and bask in the delusion of him being atg in test.

Edited November 16, 2018 by raki05