beetle Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Reality in some worlds, but we are the worst. Again, I am not arguing about reality, but just the narration. I can post some numbers of women killed by husband and inlaws in India everyyear and this will continue... https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/dowry-deaths-national-crime-records-bureau-conviction-rate-972874-2017-04-22 https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/health/india-witnesses-one-of-the-highest-female-infanticide-incidents-in-the-world-54803 NSFW- https://m.timesofindia.com/videos/news/on-cam-woman-tortured-by-in-laws-allegedly-for-dowry/videoshow/71221930.cms I just wonder about this need to deny the reality of women in India . Maybe guys cannot feel the sexual harrasement in public transports or work place like women ,they can't feel the fear of having to return back home in the dark ,or the real fear of concieving a girl and its repercussions in her life which is a reality of many women. Denying the real dangers women face in India is more defeating because if people deny,then where will the change come from. Female infanticide and dowry deaths are genocides that have been going on for ages now ...still this denial. God forbid we accept and then we will have to question our present day culture and traditions we like to beat our chest about. Edited September 20, 2019 by beetle riya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 20 hours ago, Real McCoy said: . My grandmother had a much more richer life than these women today. And no she wasn't rich in monetary terms That is for the women of today to decide. Women who did not have the option cannot compare . The option , ability and the opportunity to be able to go out and be financially independent and hence have more control over their lives is what is of value. riya and Alam_dar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 On 9/19/2019 at 9:03 AM, Real McCoy said: Most of these social movements were invented by the elite. Imagine a small village with a population of 400 with 100 men, 100 women and 200 children. The men indulged in hard labor and earn money. The women take care of household activities and the children. Now a man from outside the city wants to rule over this city. What will he do. He will divide and conquer. He will say to the women that she too can indulge in hard labor giving slogans and feel good stories. Now 200 people are working outside but it still remains the same amount of work and same amount of money at play. So 200 people working means more labor at work and the pay rate is cheapened. Moreover, the children are left in the lurch. This happens in a global scale now. Can't believe most people don't see this. What used to be a simple life has become more complicated by more tactics from the elite. We have become slaves to them by their deviousness. Feminism is not invented by a woman. It was a ploy by the elite to further enslave the masses. My grandmother had a much more richer life than these women today. And no she wasn't rich in monetary terms It is difficult (/rather impossible) to agree with your "conspiracy theory" about the outsider. Forget about village work (i.e. hard physical work). Let us talk about the cities where one has to use one's "brain power". Now 50% women have much better Brain Power than 50% of men, then what to do in this case? Still imprison those 50% intelligent women in the houses in name of traditions and religion and give the jobs to the the rest of 50% of lazy, dull and stupid men? Thank you religion and traditions very much. In past, the societies were not civilized and women were not safe. That was the reason they were compelled to stay at home which was considered a safe place for them. If we are talking to keep women at homes today, this shows only this that our society has still not become civilized enough to safeguard the freedom of women. beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) On 9/19/2019 at 9:03 AM, Real McCoy said: My grandmother had a much more richer life than these women today. And no she wasn't rich in monetary terms 6 hours ago, beetle said: That is for the women of today to decide. Women who did not have the option cannot compare . The option , ability and the opportunity to be able to go out and be financially independent and hence have more control over their lives is what is of value. @beetle Exactly. I have seen women who are claiming that their life is more happy when they cover themselves in Burqa Tent. I have seen women claiming that their life is more happy while their husband have 3 other wives too. I don't know the grandmother of gentleman @Real McCoy , but I have seen women who have been suffering a worst nightmare in the joint family system, and could do nothing to help themselves due to the norms of the traditional family values and society. In very clear words: "It should be recognized as the Basic Human Right of wife to have a separate home. Only if she feels that she has excellent relations with in-laws, and they could have good time together, then she could decide to join the joint family system". Edited September 20, 2019 by Alam_dar beetle and riya 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted September 20, 2019 Author Share Posted September 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: I have seen women claiming that their life is more happy while their husband have 3 other wives too Where can I find those such happy women for me coffee_rules, Alam_dar and Real McCoy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 6 hours ago, beetle said: That is for the women of today to decide. Women who did not have the option cannot compare . The option , ability and the opportunity to be able to go out and be financially independent and hence have more control over their lives is what is of value. Did you read my full post or did you pick and chose which one you want to debate on. It is promoted by the elite who wants you and your kids to be slaves to the system. Women being financially independent and more control is how they sell it to you. If you believe it, then you are as dumb as a dodo. If Virat Kohli says make a bold move, do you go to the bar and order some royal challengers whiskey. But if you see someone say women can do anything, you will believe them. My grandmother lived for 90 years. How many of today's generation will live for that many years. If you truly think about it, no human is fully independent not even the elite. They want to live more while you toil away for them as slaves. Women always lived longer than men. Now you want to join work. Early death for women. So much independence (I'm being sarcastic here if you didn't know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, velu said: Where can I find those such happy women for me But if you do find them, thats 4 wives you have to listen to velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: @beetle Exactly. I have seen women who are claiming that their life is more happy when they cover themselves in Burqa Tent. I have seen women claiming that their life is more happy while their husband have 3 other wives too. I don't know the grandmother of gentleman @Real McCoy , but I have seen women who have been suffering a worst nightmare in the joint family system, and could do nothing to help themselves due to the norms of the traditional family values and society. In very clear words: "It should be recognized as the Basic Human Right of wife to have a separate home. Only if she feels that she has excellent relations with in-laws, and they could have good time together, then she could decide to join the joint family system". Yet the most successful families of today are joint families. Look at ambanis they live on a large flat system owned by them. I know a muslim friend whose wife is a housewife and wears a burqa with face open. I'm not saying everyone should follow suit but they remind me of my childhood where my mom was a housewife. Woman wore simple clothes and no woman wore even jeans. Even churidhar was only seen in the 90s but since that helped them ride cycles and motorcycles, that trend caught on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 54 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: It is difficult (/rather impossible) to agree with your "conspiracy theory" about the outsider. Forget about village work (i.e. hard physical work). Let us talk about the cities where one has to use one's "brain power". Now 50% women have much better Brain Power than 50% of men, then what to do in this case? Still imprison those 50% intelligent women in the houses in name of traditions and religion and give the jobs to the the rest of 50% of lazy, dull and stupid men? Thank you religion and traditions very much. In past, the societies were not civilized and women were not safe. That was the reason they were compelled to stay at home which was considered a safe place for them. If we are talking to keep women at homes today, this shows only this that our society has still not become civilized enough to safeguard the freedom of women. Its easier to dismiss anything that challenges your thought process as "conspiracy theory" these days. Forget that he is an outsider. Maybe he is an insider who showed some enterprising skills to make his life easier. Will you consider this theory now. It is the same guy or set of guys who thought about the concept of cities rather than a farming village. Why do we need cities. We can live in villages if it comes down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: My grandmother lived for 90 years. How many of today's generation will live for that many years. If you truly think about it, no human is fully independent not even the elite. They want to live more while you toil away for them as slaves. Women always lived longer than men. Now you want to join work. Early death for women. So much independence (I'm being sarcastic here if you didn't know) It is not due to the work that man die earlier than women. Today, in Western countries women are working, and still they are living longer than men. I believe that older generations were much more "healthy" than younger generations of today. And health is among one of the biggest factor which brings "happiness" in the life. If you are in a bad health, then you are depressed, you will not enjoy the life even if you don't have to go to work. The old woman who worked in the house of my Uncle (maternal Uncle) led a healthy life and she was also very happy till her end, despite being poor and despite being working hard in two household (Mamu's and her own). riya and beetle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Yet the most successful families of today are joint families. Look at ambanis they live on a large flat system owned by them. I know a muslim friend whose wife is a housewife and wears a burqa with face open. I'm not saying everyone should follow suit but they remind me of my childhood where my mom was a housewife. Woman wore simple clothes and no woman wore even jeans. Even churidhar was only seen in the 90s but since that helped them ride cycles and motorcycles, that trend caught on. All this is debatable. While yet the most unsuccessful and suffering nightmares are the families who are living in joint family system, but not able to accommodate each other. Actually, when the joint family system finally broken, and these families started living separately, then peace came to their life. beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Real McCoy said: Did you read my full post or did you pick and chose which one you want to debate on. It is promoted by the elite who wants you and your kids to be slaves to the system. Women being financially independent and more control is how they sell it to you. If you believe it, then you are as dumb as a dodo. If Virat Kohli says make a bold move, do you go to the bar and order some royal challengers whiskey. But if you see someone say women can do anything, you will believe them. My grandmother lived for 90 years. How many of today's generation will live for that many years. If you truly think about it, no human is fully independent not even the elite. They want to live more while you toil away for them as slaves. Women always lived longer than men. Now you want to join work. Early death for women. So much independence (I'm being sarcastic here if you didn't know) Yeah I read...good for your grandmother. Glad she lived a good life. But she is one of many millions of women.Can't base a belief on one person's life. I am a stay at home mom now and extremely happy...but the difference is that I had the freedom to work in past and I have the freedom to work anytime me or my family wants. That is the difference. The freedom ....that women in our grandmothers generation did not have. As for the conspiracy theory...it is a self fulfilling one for people who would rather see women under control and dependent . hamko ma’aloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin, dil ke khush rakhne ko, ‘Ghalib’ yeh khayaal achcha hai Edited September 20, 2019 by beetle Alam_dar and riya 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Alam_dar said: It is not due to the work that man die earlier than women. Today, in Western countries women are working, and still they are living longer than men. I believe that older generations were much more "healthy" than younger generations of today. And health is among one of the biggest factor which brings "happiness" in the life. If you are in a bad health, then you are depressed, you will not enjoy the life even if you don't have to go to work. The old woman who worked in the house of my Uncle (maternal Uncle) led a healthy life and she was also very happy till her end, despite being poor and despite being working hard in two household (Mamu's and her own). So who had the most satisfying life - the poor old woman or the modern working women. My point is older generations lived a more simple lifestyle that made them more happier. You talked about health. How many western women (and men) worry about health insurance. Nowadays western people are saving for burying or cremation insurance so as to not burden their children for burying costs. Back in the day, people didn't have these complexities of life. More complexities in life (and feminism is one), you have a less physically and mentally healthy lifestyle. Have you seen the divorce rates in the west. There is argument over nothing at the dinner table. The same is coming to other nations now. By products of feminism are 1. Increasing divorce rates 2. When people are tired after a tough work day (for both sexes now), they go home to another form of stress at home. So no relief because there is always a tug of war between man and woman promoted by tv and social media 3. Kids are left in day care centers. People working in day care centers will be less motivated to take care of them unlike their moms. 4. Pedophilia is on the rise. Its even promoted by lectures in Tedx. How will parents take care of this issue 5. They are more likely to eat junk food or cook unhealthy food. Chances of disease increases as no one watches what they eat or drink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, beetle said: My grandmother lived for 90 years. How many of today's generation will live for that many years. If you truly think about it, no human is fully independent not even the elite. They want to live more while you toil away for them as slaves. Women always lived longer than men. Now you want to join work. Early death for women. So much independence (I'm being sarcastic here if you didn't know) Must be good genes. A lot of prople in my family lived to be 90. Can't say all of them were very happy in their lives. True no person is fully independent but people should be able to decide what kind of independence they seek and what kind of dependence they want. Others should not be deciding how you should live your life. If women want to be independent financially....they should be . If they don't want to be independent financially,they can help their families in other ways . Women are not idiots to fall for elite propaganda. When they see the plight of many women who are dependent on father,husband ,in laws or sons ...they want to be financially strong . riya and Alam_dar 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 9 hours ago, beetle said: I can post some numbers of women killed by husband and inlaws in India everyyear and this will continue... https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/dowry-deaths-national-crime-records-bureau-conviction-rate-972874-2017-04-22 https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/health/india-witnesses-one-of-the-highest-female-infanticide-incidents-in-the-world-54803 I just wonder about this need to deny the reality of women in India . Maybe guys cannot feel the sexual harrasement in public transports or work place like women ,they can't feel the fear of having to return back home in the dark ,or the real fear of concieving a girl and its repercussions in her life which is a reality of many women. Denying the real dangers women face in India is more defeating because if people deny,then where will the change come from. Female infanticide and dowry deaths are genocides that have been going on for ages now ...still this denial. God forbid we accept and then we will have to question our present day culture and traditions we like to beat our chest about. No denial, some want to see only bad negative stuff, while some want to look at positives while trying to solve the negatives. SpaceMoms is a positive about how Indian culture in middle class is not hindering women to achieve in STEM areas. It is compared to a movie about black women working NASA, which is not the same. While the percentage of women working in paid jobs is lesser than in say China, India shows it is rising exponentiallt. It shows the society is moving out of patriarchy. Instead, we inly hear brahminical patriarchy is the reason for all the negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Real McCoy said: Yet the most successful families of today are joint families. Look at ambanis they live on a large flat system owned by them. I know a muslim friend whose wife is a housewife and wears a burqa with face open. I'm not saying everyone should follow suit but they remind me of my childhood where my mom was a housewife. Woman wore simple clothes and no woman wore even jeans. Even churidhar was only seen in the 90s but since that helped them ride cycles and motorcycles, that trend caught on. Did men not start wearing western clothes ...like tousers snd shirt,suits and jeans. If it fine for men to change and doesn't effect their lives...why is women changing to something they like not the same . Women should stay at home..women should wear traditional clothes...women this women that...no wonder women want to go out and get careers and live seperately. Who would want this kind controlling surrounding! riya and Alam_dar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: brahminical patriarchy is the reason for all the negatives All kinds of patriarchy is the reason . riya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Large percentage of boys are raised not on purpose but in a surrounding where DIL, SIL, a mother or a sister none of them are respected in the house. That sort of nurturing cannot be undone when these kids come to adulthood. The way they are acting/behaving against women, it is all natural to them, totally normal. This is where some sort of education should be mandatory at school level towards this. riya, Alam_dar and beetle 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: So who had the most satisfying life - the poor old woman or the modern working women. My point is older generations lived a more simple lifestyle that made them more happier. Sorry quoting different parts ...a bit distracted. The modern woman goes out and works...specially ones who choose to do it. She is like the bird who has come out of the cage and learnt to fly. She can decide what is better. If she is flying then she must be happy doing it....atleast happier than she was in the cage. The old lady is like the bird in the cage who never ever flew in life. She does not know hence can't know if staying in the cage is better or flying is better. Simple is not always better...simple is sometimes just lack of options or freedom of options. Edited September 20, 2019 by beetle Alam_dar and riya 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, beetle said: Yeah I read...good for your grandmother. Glad she lived a good life. But she is one of many millions of women.Can't base a belief on one person's life. I am a stay at home mom now and extremely happy...but the difference is that I had the freedom to work in past and I have the freedom to work anytime me or my family wants. That is the difference. The freedom ....that women in our grandmothers generation did not have. As for the conspiracy theory...it is a self fulfilling one for people who would rather see women under control and dependent . I have no reason to keep women under control. I want everybody (that includes men too) to show some thought and restraint in how they conduct themselves. No you didn't read it or you're purposefully dodging it. I gave you a microcosm of todays situation. Its not a conspiracy if its the truth. You think some women bound together and started feminism. As according to feminism, these women had no rights to start something. So how did they start feminism. It was started by some elite rich guys who had the privilege of poor men working under him to further enslave humanity. My grandmother married early and she studied college after marriage. She was also an English teacher in a school. She also privately tutored some children. Her sister worked as a headmaster in a different school. They had the freedom back then also. Lots of people think that women were mistreated back then when that is not the case in our family. What they didn't do is like that ad which Deepika Padukone promoted where she wanted to do whatever she wanted. You don't think that Deepika put her own money doing that ad, do you. Lots of foreign investment comes in and they need a front to put that poison in our tv. That is the most extreme version. There are more lighter versions that promote friction in marriages. And most of them come from movies and reality shows. I lost whatever respect I had for Kamal Hassan when he did that big boss reality show. Quote hamko ma’aloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin, dil ke khush rakhne ko, ‘Ghalib’ yeh khayaal achcha hai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts