Indian Batsmen averaging close to 60 in Test cricket

[zen]

4 minutes ago, Skipper said:

You are saying as if Afridi is compared with aforementioned batsmens for opening slot and not Tendulkar and btw these batsmen a are not rated by Wisden as second best after bardman........I am sure Tendulkar would have scored better on indian pitches against aus and sa fast bowlers who were best of that era and against whom Tendulkar already has one of the best avg at their homes. Definetely Tendulkar has avg better against those fast bowler than ur stalwarts.

I am struggling to find a high avg when the score is 100 or less 

 

 

 

I do not need to point out his avg in a test where he played in the top order, never returning to it again  

[zen]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

2003-2006      29 matches Avg 44 100s-4
2007-2011WC 44 matches Avg 63 100s-16

Pointing avg 61-62 over 100 tests b/w 1997-2006. We are talking about career avg not selected periods 

[Skipper]

1 minute ago, zen said:

I am struggling to find a high avg when the score is 100 or less 

 

 

 

I do not need to point out his avg in a test where he played in the top order, never returning to it again  

Look man I don't need to do stats guru to tell me about a batsmen whom I have seen whole life....probably 10 years down the line u rate Adam voges better than Steve Smith and philander as better bowler than Anderson but that's not my problem as I have seen them performing. So u can keep on presenting stats doesn't matter to me any many others who have seen these batsmen batting live.

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Look man I don't need to do stats guru to tell me about a batsmen whom I have seen whole life....probably 10 years down the line u rate Adam voges better than Steve Smith and philander as better bowler than Anderson but that's not my problem as I have seen them performing. So u can keep on presenting stats doesn't matter to me any many others who have seen these batsmen batting live.

Afridi fans probably avoid stats too and rate him as an 50 avg batsman based on watching him bat (and as if others have not)

Edited September 1, 2020 by zen

[Skipper]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

Afridi fans probably avoid stats too  and rate him based on watching him bat (and as if others have not)

If they have seen them bat ....no one in right mind comapre Tendulkar to every tom dick and harry evry day in each thread. But go on as I said u can win keyboard championship but not big ❤️ .

[kaptaan]

53 minutes ago, zen said:

I am struggling to find a high avg when the score is 100 or less 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, avg of 51 is low by Tendulkar's standards

[kaptaan]

2 hours ago, zen said:

@Rasgulla   Buddy, more interesting stuff for you:

 

• 500 or more runs in a series: N
• 3 or more 100s in a series: N
• 4th innings performance: N
• Performance v when both McGrath+Warne are playing: N
• Top order batting: N 

 

He is supposed to avg 60-75

I know Thailams fans are dumb, but they are not too dumb to jump into a thread related to test cricket. Especially when Rishabh Pant made a mockery of Thailams whole test career 

[zen]

36 minutes ago, kaptaan said:

Yeah, avg of 51 is low by Tendulkar's standards

Excl BD and Zim, his avg is roughly 51, so what is his standard

 

 

[kaptaan]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

Excl BD and Zim, his avg is roughly 51, so what is his standard

 

 

What do I know !! You are the one who decides who is great and who is not. You must be knowing it.

[Rasgulla]

3 hours ago, zen said:

@Rasgulla   Buddy, more interesting stuff for you:

 

• 500 or more runs in a series: N
• 3 or more 100s in a series: N
• 4th innings performance: N
• Performance v when both McGrath+Warne are playing: N
• Top order batting: N 

 

He is supposed to avg 60-75

He opens is ODIs  but bats No.4 in Test. He is so scared of new ball swinging left and right that he hides behind openers and Dravid. Yet, Mighty Dravid averages more than this National fraud.  Let's not even talk about this guy as Captain.  He was lucky to be born in that era.

[kaptaan]

2 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

He opens is ODIs  but bats No.4 in Test. He is so scared of new ball swinging left and right that he hides behind openers and Dravid. Yet, Mighty Dravid averages more than this National fraud.  Let's not even talk about this guy as Captain.  He was lucky to be born in that era.

Yeah, just like how Dhoni hides behind the entire batting lineup ?? 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

He opens is ODIs  but bats No.4 in Test. He is so scared of new ball swinging left and right that he hides behind openers and Dravid. Yet, Mighty Dravid averages more than this National fraud.  Let's not even talk about this guy as Captain.  He was lucky to be born in that era.

Sachin avg 51 excl BD and Zim. Has played only 1 test in the top order. My concern is that if he had batted in top order his avg could have been less than 50 esp. looking at his performances such as when he comes in when Ind is 100 or less 

 

Imagine Sachin opening with bowlers with fresh cherry in their hands w/ 3-4 slips. Many of us could be praying for his survival

[Rasgulla]

16 minutes ago, kaptaan said:

Yeah, just like how Dhoni hides behind the entire batting lineup ?? 

Dhoni bats low in every format. Not NO.3 in ODIs and No.6/7 in Tests. Not sure why you found that funny. Couldn't even replace No.4 properly in that squad till now. Forget about replacing No.6

 

Virat bats no.3 is all  formats.  Not a coward like tendiya

[Rasgulla]

18 minutes ago, zen said:

Sachin avg 51 excl BD and Zim. Has played only 1 test in the top order. My concern is that if he had batted in top order his avg could have been less than 50 esp. looking at his performances such as when he comes in when Ind is 100 or less 

 

Imagine Sachin opening with bowlers with fresh cherry in their hands w/ 3-4 slips. Many of us could be praying for his survival

Then he would have been totally exposed   Like i said before, He is lucky to be playing with nice guys like Dravid who protected him. 

[Vk1]

5 hours ago, zen said:

 

The table shows that Tendulkar does well when he comes in at a score of 100 or more. In top order, you would usually be in when the score is 100 or less (accounting for various scenarios) 

 

 

On a side note - most Ind batsmen play spin well. In fact, among strong visiting sides, it is the pace bowlers that have been a bigger threat to our batsmen. Below from 1990 to 2013: 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Opposition team India

Host country India

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1990 and 1 Jan 2014

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20  and matches played greater than or equal to 5

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
DW Steyn (SA)	2008-2010	5	8	149.5	19	526	26	7/51	10/108	20.23	3.51	34.5	2	1
GD McGrath (AUS)	1996-2004	8	16	313.2	123	703	33	4/18	7/121	21.30	2.24	56.9	0	0
JN Gillespie (AUS)	2001-2004	7	14	259.2	64	717	33	5/56	9/80	21.72	2.76	47.1	1	0
MJ Hoggard (ENG)	2001-2006	6	11	208.4	69	513	22	6/57	7/86	23.31	2.45	56.9	1	0
GP Swann (ENG)	2008-2012	6	11	286.2	60	811	28	5/144	8/113	28.96	2.83	61.3	1	0
JM Anderson (ENG)	2006-2012	7	13	230.5	54	656	22	4/40	6/79	29.81	2.84	62.9	0	0
A Flintoff (ENG)	2001-2008	8	14	281.0	68	731	24	4/50	4/50	30.45	2.60	70.2	0	0
MS Panesar (ENG)	2006-2012	8	15	380.0	86	1071	28	6/81	11/210	38.25	2.81	81.4	2	1
Danish Kaneria (PAK)	2005-2007	6	12	367.4	62	1227	31	6/150	7/173	39.58	3.33	71.1	2	0
MG Johnson (AUS)	2008-2013	7	14	263.4	46	842	21	5/64	5/93	40.09	3.19	75.3	1	0
SK Warne (AUS)	1998-2004	9	16	459.1	95	1466	34	6/125	6/125	43.11	3.19	81.0	1	0
DL Vettori (NZ)	1999-2010	8	13	531.0	117	1388	31	6/127	6/149	44.77	2.61	102.7	2	0
M Muralitharan (SL)	1994-2009	11	14	574.5	102	1818	40	7/100	8/218	45.45	3.16	86.2	2	0

 

 

 

In matches won in Ind:

 

Pace bowlers

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Opposition team India

Host country India

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1990 and 1 Jan 2014

Match result won match

Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler

Qualifications bowling average less than or equal to 25

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
M Ntini (SA)	2008-2008	1	2	22.2	4	62	6	3/18	6/62	10.33	2.77	22.3	0	0
DW Steyn (SA)	2008-2010	2	4	65.5	10	222	18	7/51	10/108	12.33	3.37	21.9	2	1
JN Gillespie (AUS)	2001-2004	3	6	104.2	34	271	19	5/56	9/80	14.26	2.59	32.9	1	0
Shoaib Akhtar (PAK)	1999-1999	1	2	39.3	6	118	8	4/47	8/118	14.75	2.98	29.6	0	0
SM Pollock (SA)	2000-2000	2	4	73.1	31	133	9	4/24	6/67	14.77	1.81	48.7	0	0
GD McGrath (AUS)	2001-2004	3	6	122.1	54	244	16	4/55	6/94	15.25	1.99	45.8	0	0
WJ Cronje (SA)	1996-2000	3	6	47.0	19	106	6	3/23	5/49	17.66	2.25	47.0	0	0
JH Kallis (SA)	2000-2010	4	7	64.0	23	138	7	3/30	3/51	19.71	2.15	54.8	0	0
CE Cuffy (WI)	1994-1994	1	2	22.2	4	81	4	3/80	4/81	20.25	3.62	33.5	0	0
AA Donald (SA)	1996-2000	3	5	79.2	23	205	10	3/72	4/46	20.50	2.58	47.6	0	0
A Flintoff (ENG)	2006-2006	1	2	32.0	8	82	4	3/14	4/82	20.50	2.56	48.0	0	0
MS Kasprowicz (AUS)	1998-2004	3	6	109.0	25	254	12	5/28	6/104	21.16	2.33	54.5	1	0
JM Anderson (ENG)	2006-2012	3	6	96.5	25	276	13	4/40	6/79	21.23	2.85	44.6	0	0
KCG Benjamin (WI)	1994-1994	1	2	52.3	11	171	8	5/65	8/171	21.37	3.25	39.3	1	0
MJ Hoggard (ENG)	2006-2006	1	2	34.0	12	67	3	2/54	3/67	22.33	1.97	68.0	0	0
AC Cummins (WI)	1994-1994	1	1	16.0	2	45	2	2/45	2/45	22.50	2.81	48.0	0	0
L Klusener (SA)	1996-2000	3	3	45.3	5	192	8	8/64	8/139	24.00	4.21	34.1	1	0
CA Walsh (WI)	1994-1994	1	2	53.0	11	123	5	3/34	5/123	24.60	2.32	63.6	0	0

 

 

Spin bowlers

View overall figures [change view]

Opposition team India

Host country India

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1990 and 1 Jan 2014

Match result won match

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications bowling average less than or equal to 25

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Showing 1 - 7 of 7

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
SD Udal (ENG)	2006-2006	1	2	25.2	5	67	5	4/14	5/67	13.40	2.64	30.4	0	0
Shahid Afridi (PAK)	1999-2005	3	6	56.5	18	114	8	3/13	5/43	14.25	2.00	42.6	0	0
N Boje (SA)	2000-2000	2	3	58.0	20	110	7	5/83	7/93	15.71	1.89	49.7	1	0
GR Robertson (AUS)	1998-1998	1	2	23.2	3	86	5	3/28	5/86	17.20	3.68	28.0	0	0
Saqlain Mushtaq (PAK)	1999-1999	2	4	105.2	25	287	14	5/93	10/187	20.50	2.72	45.1	2	1
GP Swann (ENG)	2012-2012	2	4	96.2	25	229	11	4/43	8/113	20.81	2.37	52.5	0	0
Danish Kaneria (PAK)	2005-2005	1	2	64.0	18	173	7	5/127	7/173	24.71	2.70	54.8	1	0

 

 

Talking about Tendulkar, one of the key occasions where he  played spin well was in that Mumbai test v Aus w/ Laxman in 2004 where McGrath and Gillespie did well too - Link 

 

 

Overall, if Tendulkar batted in top order, I would not be surprised to see him avg less than 50. The pressure of batting in the 1st session (not losing wkts) v strong fresh pace bowlers and 2-4 fielders in slips could have been a challenge. Even when he has come in with the score of 100 or less, he has struggled relatively. If he were comfortable in the top order, he had plenty of opportunities to bat there and make that position his own! 

not everytime a wicket falls and nbr 3 comes can we assume that the wicket is difficult to play.  Sometimes the ball swings for only the first spell alone and nbr 3 need not have to struggle once that is taken care of.  On the other hand 2 wickets down has got quite a higher chance of pitch being suitable for bowlers.. 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Then he would have been totally exposed   Like i said before, He is lucky to be playing with nice guys like Dravid who protected him. 

It is even difficult to imagine him opening in tests .... Images like below begin to flash in mind 

 

 

[Rasgulla]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

It is even difficult to imagine him opening in tests .... Images like below begin to flash in mind 

 

 

Missed a low full toss. This is the time he should have retired. I would have respected him.  

[cricketfan28]

26 minutes ago, zen said:

It is even difficult to imagine him opening in tests .... Images like below begin to flash in mind 

 

 

superd ball by akthar. It was unplayable.

[zen]

24 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Missed a low full toss. This is the time he should have retired. I would have respected him.  

Sachin probably did a favor to Ind by not opening in tests .... it could have given many sleepless nights including to him  

Edited September 1, 2020 by zen

[Gollum]

Don't agree with everything he posts but respect to @zen for being one man army against the brigade of Sachinstas, excellent  technique