UK NHS likely to roll out CoViD 19 vaccine as early as Dec 7.

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 12/7/2020 at 6:51 AM, Clarke said:

 

I'm a helicopter pilot with the air force. No wait that never happened, so i do what 3 out of 4 engineers in India do, work in IT. 

 

If you followed the latest news in India, Pfizer as well as Serum Institute of India have applied for emergency use authorization (separately, for their own vaccines based on different mechanisms, in case one needs to point out). I wonder if the former can be approved considering there were no trials in India AFAIK. If somehow approved now or later, there's roughly half a billion preorders from other govts already for Pfizer to fulfill first while some local infra can be set up.

 

I reckon 2022 might be when us healthy adults in India can procure our shots of freedom whichever the brand, after you westerners have had yours and so have our essential workers, armed forces, senior citizens, people with comorbidities and so on. That may be the best case scenario assuming all goes as per plan.

:-).

At least you had high ambition.  I wanted to be a bus driver - not as difficult to do, but just as exciting on Bengaluru roads!

 

I am really surprised that Pfizer didn't get in front of the freezer issue and use technology that does not require freezing (like Moderna is doing with their RNA vaccine.

 

I feel more optimistic about the time line.  In the next two months Covaxin may also be approved and ready to go.  Regardless, I think SII was doing at-risk manufacturing and may be ready to deploy fast.  

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict

[Jimmy Cliff]

We're gonna hear a lot about "co-morbities" and "underlying conditions" in the next few weeks .

[coffee_rules]

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

We're gonna hear a lot about "co-morbities" and "underlying conditions" in the next few weeks .

 

No.  This time you are going to hear about the perils of equating correlation with causation.  Oh, the horror!

[Jimmy Cliff]

52 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

No.  This time you are going to hear about the perils of equating correlation with causation.  Oh, the horror!

 

Correlation does not imply causation. Except when it comes to existing "underlying conditions" and post vaccine side effects. Then there is perfect causation! Experimental, poorly tested vaccines by Big Pharma are Ganga ki tarah pavitra .

[coffee_rules]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Correlation does not imply causation. Except when it comes to existing "underlying conditions" and post vaccine side effects. Then there is perfect causation! Experimental, poorly tested vaccines by Big Pharma are Ganga ki tarah pavitra .

 

I would presume, they will test the vaccine with samples who have some "underlying" conditions, Won't they?

[Real McCoy]

34 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Correlation does not imply causation. Except when it comes to existing "underlying conditions" and post vaccine side effects. Then there is perfect causation! Experimental, poorly tested vaccines by Big Pharma are Ganga ki tarah pavitra .

Its easier to convince the majority to take it and by majority they rule. Its the power of democrazy. Masses are herds. Feed them fear through news and movies and they will rush to the hospital to take the shot. Even if the doctors tell you that its dangerous, sheeple driven by fear will take it. Just stay away from the vaccine and the people who are acting like sheep. Sheeplike people are more dangerous to you than the elite. They will rat you out to make their lives easier. Why do you think the contact tracer was released as soon as the corona was released. They cant make such a complicated app that quick. Also they can't make a vaccine this quick. usually it takes 5-10 years. They are on a tight schedule and they are relying on people's stupidity to make it work. There are some who believe they have RFID chips or nanobots in them. RFID chip "conspiracy" has been around for more than a decade. When they say coronavirus, vaccine, and RFID chip in the same sentence, you should get it. Others will laugh and call you a tinfoil hat but you be the judge. I don't believe the people in UK are that confident as projected. There's a huge antivax group there and throuhgout the globe.

[BacktoCricaddict]

38 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

I would presume, they will test the vaccine with samples who have some "underlying" conditions, Won't they?

Yes, they have.  The sampling protocols are thoroughly regulated and well-controlled. 

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2261805-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine/

Excerpt:

What about other vulnerable groups?
The vaccine appears to be equally effective regardless of recipients’ age, sex and ethnicity, according to BioNTech. It has been tested extensively in people who have already had the virus and doesn’t cause any ill effects. It has also been tested in people with “stable” pre-existing conditions – also known as comorbidities – including diabetes, cancer, hepatitis B, hepatitis C and well-managed HIV. Their response was as good as anyone else’s.
 

 

https://www.pfizer.com/science/coronavirus/vaccine

Excerpt:

The Phase 3 clinical trial of BNT162b2 began on July 27 and has enrolled 43,661 participants to date, 41,135 of whom have received a second dose of the vaccine candidate as of November 13, 2020. Approximately 42% of global participants and 30% of U.S. participants have racially and ethnically diverse backgrounds, and 41% of global and 45% of U.S. participants are 56-85 years of age. A breakdown of the diversity of clinical trial participants can be found here from approximately 150 clinical trials sites in United States, Germany, Turkey, South Africa, Brazil and Argentina. The trial will continue to collect efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years.

 

Even from a strictly pragmatic perspective, it will be a total death-knell to the company if significant safety breaches occur.   

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict

[Jimmy Cliff]

28 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

I would presume, they will test the vaccine with samples who have some "underlying" conditions, Won't they?

They should. And ideally they should wait for a few years to verify there are no significant side effects with the vaccines across different age groups in trials. Until then, making any vaccine mandatory should be out of question. Correct me if I am wrong, isn't that how it usually happens with most vaccines for humans? Is that what is happening right now? Instead you have the effing military being deployed to deliver vaccines.

 

And here's the icing on the cake, Big Pharma will NOT be held accountable for any side effects of the Covid vaccine.

 

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

 

Patricia is suffering from an unexplained skin condition - but a misunderstanding about what might have caused it set off a chain of events that turned her foot into fodder for anti-vaccine activists.

The picture showed purple and red sores, swollen and oozing with pus.

"Supposedly this is a [vaccine] trial participant," read the message alongside it. "Ready to roll up your sleeve?"

Within a day, those same feet had been mentioned thousands of times on Instagram and Facebook. The picture went viral on Twitter as well.

"See they are trying to deliberately hurt us with the vaccine," one tweet read.

The feet belong to Patricia - a woman in her 30s living in Texas. And it's true - she was a participant in a trial for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine that started to be administered on Tuesday.

But this is also true: Patricia never received the actual vaccine. Medical records show that she received a placebo, a small injection of salt water. (Researchers do this as a matter of routine, to compare groups that receive a drug or a vaccine with those who receive the placebo.)

Her illness had nothing to do with injections. But that didn't stop activists twisting her story to advance their own agendas. And on top of the physical pain caused by her condition, Patricia received a wave of online abuse.

 

She also received a torrent of abuse on social media.

She says people called her "an idiot, a drug addict, a convicted felon, con artist, a person of questionable character and worse."

Anti-vaccine activists sent her angry messages saying she should never have taken part in the trial. At the same time, others sent her abusive messages accusing her of deliberately fuelling disinformation.

Patricia insists she never meant to deliberately deceive. She disabled her social media profiles because of the messages, and says she's particularly upset by the anti-vaccine lobby.

"The fact that these anti-vaxxers are using this to fuel their agenda is infuriating," she says.

 

 

This can be Chapter 4355034 of the book:  Correlation, Causation and Activism.

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Correlation and Causation work in mysterious ways. 

[MechEng]

Not taking the vaccine, it's all big pharma making money through stock market.

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

 

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

20 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mishra]

20 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

and immunity wont last long either

But if she contacts, It wont kill her. Lets not spread Hysteria. Vaccine is to improve your immunity and response to the virus. there is nearly 25% mortality rate among over 75s if they contract Covid. Millions of old people have been under house arrest since  March in UK.

Edited December 10, 2020 by mishra

[mishra]

3 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

People's lives and livelihoods have been destroyed due to a year long lockdown and i am the one spreading hysteria with my silly little post.

 

Just stated the obvious ,immunity wont last long ,and people with comorbidities will have to be treated with steroids and therapeutics and dont pretend that they care for the elderly when they put them into old age homes ,which are rife for spreading infections and also wanting euthanasia for the elderly.

 

 

Its not perfect vaccine and vaccine makers have admitted so. We cant wait 10-20 years for perfect vaccine and we all agree that there is a need to come out of Lockdown. So you can see glass 90% full or keep looking at 10% empty

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

But if she contacts, It wont kill her. Lets not spread Hysteria. Vaccine is to improve your immunity and response to the virus. there is nearly 25% mortality rate among over 75s if they contract Covid. Millions of old people have been under house arrest since  March in UK.

Not only that.  Clinical trial efficacy is 94%, and around 75% for older folks.  No honest scientist or doctor will say that you are 100% guaranteed not to get infected.

 

Media:  Is Margaret immune now?

Doctor: Well, I wouldn't go that far.  Given that the vaccine is 75% efficacious for older folks, plus the fact that only a small percent of the population is yet vaccinated and the virus is still very prevalent, we must be cautious until most of us are vaccinated.

Media: So, she's not.  

Doctor: Well ...

Media: Should she wear a mask?

Doctor:  To be careful, until we reach 70% vaccination rate, it is better we wear a mask.

Media:  DOCTORS SAY VACCINE DOES NOT PROTECT YOU AND YOU MUST WEAR A MASK!  

 

Doctor goes back to saving lives.  Media goes back to whipping up hysteria.  

 

If we are really concerned about Margaret or about others who cannot get vaccinated because they have immune disorders, then we must do the right thing and get vaccinated, so we can be their shield.    

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 people in trials got Bell's palsy.  Out of 40,000 who received vaccine or placebo.  1 in 10,000.

Bell's palsy in general population:  3.5 in 10,000.

Media:  Vaccine causes Bell's palsy!  

 

Scientists:  Do the math, fellas.  If anything, the vaccine has 1.5x fewer cases of Bell's palsy.  

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 minute ago, MultiB48 said:

Where is the media questioning the vaccinations and lockdowns? They are the ones promoting it.Medical practitioners who are questioning it are getting threats and even swatted by police in their homes.This is all very draconian ,are we to live in a sterile environment from here on ?

 

And they are saying vaccination won't stop transmission,so how does it work out?

 

Like I pointed out, it is a quantitative argument.  Scientists and docs don't deal in dishonest absolutes like claiming 100% immunity when the efficacy is 75% in aged folks.  This is not like fixing a plumbing leak and guaranteeing 100% success or your money back.  Docs will preach precaution.  When enough of the population is vaccinated, brakes are on the virus and transmission stops.  Until then, be cautious.      

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

 

 

 

As long as I don’t die (serious consequence, or have hospitalizations and live under intense care) , it is ok to get vaccinated and still get the viral disease and live through it like common cold.

Edited December 10, 2020 by coffee_rules