India all time test XI

[zen]

26 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Top spinner today != equal to top spinner of yesterday or tomorrow. 

Lyon is a medicore spinner who only got to play coz of no other alternatives.

 

 

Lyon gets compared to Ashwin, who is in your 11 ... so does Ind play Ashwin only because it lacks options?

 

IN SENA

Primary team Australia  or India

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2011

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
NM Lyon (AUS)	2011-2021	76	145	3163.1	626	9357	283	7/152	12/286	33.06	2.95	67.0	10	2
RA Jadeja (INDIA)	2013-2021	13	22	525.5	96	1440	41	6/138	7/258	35.12	2.73	76.9	1	0
R Ashwin (INDIA)	2011-2021	20	34	883.2	144	2527	63	4/55	7/121	40.11	2.86	84.1	0	0

 

 

Quote

Yes. However, when the average is decisive against quality opposition, the choice is also decisive.

 

So why would you term Pujara "vastly" inferior when he scored 500+ runs in Aus against an ATG level attack in 2018 and gave memorable performance in 2021 (unless you woke up from a long sleep and have no idea about the quality of the attack being discussed)? And when Dravid has a low average playing against McGrath + Warne together? 

 

 

Quote

Kumble didnt have pacer support. mcGill did. Just like Lyon has and still sucks.

 

FYI,  Kumble's career avg includes his matches in Ind 

 

 

Quote

Because at the age 32-33 Pujara is a far inferior product than Dravid was. Simple.

 

Pujara has won Ind two series in Aus against an ATG level attack. In Ind, he is brilliant too ... Also note that unless you are a youngster starting out w/ less body of work, comparison based on age are irrelevant. Pujara is a senior player, one of the two pillars of Ind's batting ... The impact made by Pujara is already immense (much like Kohli, who is in your 11 too) 

 

Appears as if you are bringing out random points you may have used 5-10 years ago somewhere 

Edited January 20, 2021 by zen

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

Lyon gets compared to Ashwin, who is in your 11 ... so does Ind play Ashwin only because it lacks options?

 

By Aussies. reality is, Lyon is a 33+ average spinner who has excellent pace bowling support and no spinner to compete with him.

He is far worse than McGill, let alone the amazing trio and way worse than another 3-4 spinners of the Dravid era.

 

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

Why would you term Pujara "vastly" inferior when he scored 500+ runs in Aus against an ATG level attack in 2018 and gave memorable performance in 2021? And when Dravid has a low average playing against McGrath + Warne together? 

 

Because McWarne+ Lee/Gillespie is vastly superior to Johnson + Lyon + the rest. 

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

FYI,  Kumble's career avg includes his matches in Ind 

 

So what ?

Not having pacer support usually means unlike Warne at home, where he'd often come in to bowl at 20/2, Kumble came into bowl at 50/1 

 

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

Pujara has won Ind two series in Aus against an ATG level attack ... Also note, unless you are a youngster starting out w/ less body of work, comparison based on age are irrelevant. Pujara is a senior player, one of the two pillars of Ind's batting, ... 

He is a vastly less experienced player than Dravid and comparison by age is relevant to show how they are/were during their peaks. Batsmen peak between 25-35 and in that zone Dravid is far, far superior.

 

Last series vs OZ wasnt an ATG attack- that attack wouldnt even be Aussie top 3 attack in the last 40 years.

 

 

[zen]

25 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

By Aussies. reality is, Lyon is a 33+ average spinner who has excellent pace bowling support and no spinner to compete with him.

He is far worse than McGill, let alone the amazing trio and way worse than another 3-4 spinners of the Dravid era.

 

 

Ind too has a good pace bowling attack and below is how their spinners do in SENA:

 

Primary team Australia  or India

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2011

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
NM Lyon (AUS)	2011-2021	76	145	3163.1	626	9357	283	7/152	12/286	33.06	2.95	67.0	10	2
RA Jadeja (INDIA)	2013-2021	13	22	525.5	96	1440	41	6/138	7/258	35.12	2.73	76.9	1	0
R Ashwin (INDIA)	2011-2021	20	34	883.2	144	2527	63	4/55	7/121	40.11	2.86	84.1	0	0

 

While you have Ashwin in your 11, Lyon is ordinary

 

 

Quote

 

Because McWarne+ Lee/Gillespie is vastly superior to Johnson + Lyon + the rest. 

 

 

a) Dravid has not done well v Mcgrath + Warne esp. at #3

b) Pujara has done well v an ATG quality attack consisting of Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and Lyon in the past two series 

 

 

Quote

 

So what ?

Not having pacer support usually means unlike Warne at home, where he'd often come in to bowl at 20/2, Kumble came into bowl at 50/1 

 

 

OK now you are not going by avgs ... thank you 

 

 

Quote

 

He is a vastly less experienced player than Dravid and comparison by age is relevant to show how they are/were during their peaks. Batsmen peak between 25-35 and in that zone Dravid is far, far superior.

 

Last series vs OZ wasnt an ATG attack- that attack wouldnt even be Aussie top 3 attack in the last 40 years.

 

 

As aforementioned, the attack is ATG quality level, more refined and penetrative as a group than Dravid faced excluding McGrath+Warne .... When McGrath+Warne played, Dravid, who had the support of Sehwag, Laxman, Sachin and Ganguly, has a much lower avg at #3 (failed) ... Pujara was the pillar of Ind's batting in two consecutive series v a high quality attack 

 

So you have no clue and are discussing on past general impressions 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by zen

[Muloghonto]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Ind too has a good pace bowling attack and below is how their spinners do in SENA:

 

Primary team Australia  or India

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2011

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
NM Lyon (AUS)	2011-2021	76	145	3163.1	626	9357	283	7/152	12/286	33.06	2.95	67.0	10	2
RA Jadeja (INDIA)	2013-2021	13	22	525.5	96	1440	41	6/138	7/258	35.12	2.73	76.9	1	0
R Ashwin (INDIA)	2011-2021	20	34	883.2	144	2527	63	4/55	7/121	40.11	2.86	84.1	0	0

 

While you have Ashwin in your 11, Lyon is ordinary

 

 

Almost all SENA bowlers do well in SENA and all subcontnental bowlers do better at home. Its called home track advantage.

 

a less than 4 wicket/match spinner with zero competition for his spot bowling after good fast bowlers who cant average below 30 in an era where good spinners average 25 or below is crap

 

10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

a) Dravid has not done well v Mcgrath + Warne esp. at #3

b) Pujara has done well v an ATG quality attack consisting of Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and Lyon in the past two series 

Cummins starc hazlewood are far inferior to McWarne. 

Duh.

 

10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 

OK now you are not going by avgs ... thank you 

 

 

 

As aforementioned, the attack is ATG quality level, more refined and penetrative as a group than Dravid faced excluding McGrath+Warne .... When McGrath+Warne played, Dravid, who had the support of Sehwag, Laxman, Sachin and Ganguly, has a much lower avg at #3 (failed) ... Pujara was the pillar of Ind's batting in two consecutive series v a high quality attack 

Dravid played like 1 series his entire career without McWarne.  Pujara played against much lower quality attack. 

 

What is Pujara's average in England, West Indies, South Africa, Australia and NZ compared to Dravid ??

 

10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

So you have no clue and are discussing on past general impressions 

 

 

 

 

You have no clue and are discussing simply based on present recency bias. 

Thats why u think a guy who can barely succeed in SENA countries is better than a guy who succeeded almost everywhere in SENA countries as #3

[zen]

 

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Almost all SENA bowlers do well in SENA and all subcontnental bowlers do better at home. Its called home track advantage.

 

a less than 4 wicket/match spinner with zero competition for his spot bowling after good fast bowlers who cant average below 30 in an era where good spinners average 25 or below is crap

 

 

Lyon in general has no home track advantage when talking about spin friendly wkts ... Eng, NZ and SA are not home grounds from him 

 

We saw how the bowlers he was compared to did 

 

 

Quote

 

Cummins starc hazlewood are far inferior to McWarne. 

Duh.

 

 

Inferior or superior can be discussed if Dravid did well v McWarne. He did not duh

 

Quote

 

Dravid played like 1 series his entire career without McWarne.  Pujara played against much lower quality attack. 

 

What is Pujara's average in England, West Indies, South Africa, Australia and NZ compared to Dravid ??

 

 

I already gave you a link to one of my threads 

 

Quote

You have no clue and are discussing simply based on present recency bias. 

Thats why u think a guy who can barely succeed in SENA countries is better than a guy who succeeded almost everywhere in SENA countries as #3

 

 

As I said, read what I posted earlier ... it would have saved both your and my time 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

31 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 

Lyon in general has no home track advantage when talking about spin friendly wkts ... Eng, NZ and SA are not home grounds from him 

 

We saw how the bowlers he was compared to did 

 

Home track advantage is the advantage of bowling in your home conditions- this is why indian bowlers do better on flat tracks in india than flat tracks in australia and vice versa.

 

31 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 

Inferior or superior can be discussed if Dravid did well v McWarne. He did not duh

So basically you are saying if i get punched out by Mohammed Ali in 10 seconds, i am an inferior boxer to you coz you lasted 3 rounds vs Evander Holyfield.

LOL.

 

You are supposed to do far worse against far better opposition.

 

31 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I already gave you a link to one of my threads 

 

 

As I said, read what I posted earlier ... it would have saved both your and my time 

 

 

 

I havent seen it, i dont see the relevance to anyone who thinks a Mitchell Johnson and Starc  attack is alltime great or comparable to McGrath-Lee/Gillespie-Warne.

[Soldier]

thank you zen for responding to those clown posts. i hate nostalgic clowns who vastly overrate the past. current indian team would beat aussies of 2000 at home. Peak virats indian side would thrash ausssies of 2000 at home. away would be comepetitive.

 

besides era comparison is pointless. 

 

many dimwitted posters fail to factor in t20 and its impact on tests. Back then indian sides used to play tour games regularly before a major test series. Now indian team has to play odi and t20 before a test series. Current india could have easily won more series in SENA had a tailored season of purely tests were on schedule like in the past. 

[Soldier]

7 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Home track advantage is the advantage of bowling in your home conditions- this is why indian bowlers do better on flat tracks in india than flat tracks in australia and vice versa.

 

So basically you are saying if i get punched out by Mohammed Ali in 10 seconds, i am an inferior boxer to you coz you lasted 3 rounds vs Evander Holyfield.

LOL.

 

You are supposed to do far worse against far better opposition.

 

 

I havent seen it, i dont see the relevance to anyone who thinks a Mitchell Johnson and Starc  attack is alltime great or comparable to McGrath-Lee/Gillespie-Warne.

current aussie attack is their best ever. 

[zen]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

 

Home track advantage is the advantage of bowling in your home conditions- this is why indian bowlers do better on flat tracks in india than flat tracks in australia and vice versa.

 

 

You are supposed to do far worse against far better opposition.

 

 

I havent seen it, i dont see the relevance to anyone who thinks a Mitchell Johnson and Starc  attack is alltime great or comparable to McGrath-Lee/Gillespie-Warne.

 

Ok so you want to keep going around in circles ... you do not read what is given to you .... keep repeating stuff based on general impressions ....  assume/twist things for e.g. despite clearly listing bowlers of the last two series in Aus, you keep writing "Johnson" ... Basically, you have no clue, buddy 

 

 

 

[Soldier]

do you understand the rigours of playing 3 formats plus t20 franchize games? lol

era comparison is pointless. Its hard to apply transitivity across eras.

 

dravid however is better than pujara because he played odi as well. 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

Ok so you want to keep going around in circles ... you do not read what is given to you .... keep repeating stuff based on general impressions ....  assume/twist things for e.g. despite clearly listing bowlers of the last two series in Aus, you keep writing "Johnson" ... Basically, you have no clue, buddy 

 

 

 

You mean twisting nosensense how Hazlewood and Starc are comparable to McGrath & Gillespie and Lyon is comparable to Warne.

The only one twisting is you. 

To glorify a SENA fail batsman who only averages decent in South Africa vs a SENA specialist who only did badly in South Africa- where almost every single Asian test batsman does poorly.

Ok.

 

You should ask Chepu whether he thinks he is a better batsman than Dravid or not.

 

[express bowling]

1. Gavaskar

2. Sehwag

3. Dravid

4. Tendulkar 

5. Kohli 

6. Dhoni

7. Jadeja

8. Kapil

9. Kumble

10. Shami

11. Bumrah

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Soldier said:

current aussie attack is their best ever. 

No

Its not even their top 3 attack ever according to the Aussies themselves.

 

[Soldier]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

No

Its not even their top 3 attack ever according to the Aussies themselves.

 

IT IS. just cause you said so doesnt mean it isnt. Stats also agree. see ya

[Muloghonto]

Just now, express bowling said:

1. Gavaskar

2. Sehwag

3. Dravid

4. Tendulkar 

5. Kohli 

6. Dhoni

7. Jadeja

8. Kapil

9. Kumble

10. Shami

11. Bumrah

 

I dont see how Jadeja sneaks ahead of Vinoo Mankad in the XI. Both LHB & SLA bowlers, one opened and batted routinely in the top order, the other isnt top order material.

Vinoo also played on uncovered pitches. 

[Soldier]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

No

Its not even their top 3 attack ever according to the Aussies themselves.

 

funny it was when 36 happened. 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Soldier said:

IT IS. just cause you said so doesnt mean it isnt. Stats also agree. see ya

It doesnt.

And just coz you say so it doesnt make it so. The aussies themselves dont rate this as their best ever attack and its not even the best ever attack i have seen out of them.

See ya.

 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Soldier said:

funny it was when 36 happened. 

Quote the aussies who said its their best ever attack ?

[Soldier]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You mean twisting nosensense how Hazlewood and Starc are comparable to McGrath & Gillespie and Lyon is comparable to Warne.

The only one twisting is you. 

To glorify a SENA fail batsman who only averages decent in South Africa vs a SENA specialist who only did badly in South Africa- where almost every single Asian test batsman does poorly.

Ok.

 

You should ask Chepu whether he thinks he is a better batsman than Dravid or not.

 

i do agree dravid is the better batsman but cummins is as good as mcgrath

hazelwood is every bit as good as gillespie. he is good bowler. 

starc better than lee anyday. 

 

warne is greater than lyon.

[Soldier]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

It doesnt.

And just coz you say so it doesnt make it so. The aussies themselves dont rate this as their best ever attack and its not even the best ever attack i have seen out of them.

See ya.

 

they do. see ya.