IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Kron]

15 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

We need to get rid of this mentality of "fast bowling leak runs" first.

This IPL Mukesh is leaking runs at 11 p.o. , Mohit is breaking records of getting beaten, Unadkut is getting hammered for 37 in 2 overs but all hell breaks loose when a fast bowler gives 40 runs in 4 overs or get injured midway.

 

This is the problem I have. We have very biased antagonistic view vs fast bowlers.

If you are bowling under 135 on average and you don't have the ability to bowl between 135 to 145 then quit trying to become a premium bowlers. Focus on becoming a BOwling all rounder or batting all rounder. 

 

If under 135 either forget bowling or focus on being All rounder. Otherwise get lost.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

If you are bowling under 135 on average and you don't have the ability to bowl between 135 to 145 then quit trying to become a premium bowlers. Focus on becoming a BOwling all rounder or batting all rounder. 

 

If under 135 either forget bowling or focus on being All rounder. Otherwise get lost.

Absolutely

Shaun Pollock, Richard Hadlee, Chris Woakes, post injury Kapil Dev, Heath Streak etc there are numerous examples in internationals.

 

People often quote Walsh & Ambrose but Walsh was easily 135+ in his early days and Ambrose around 139-140. Plus they were exceptionally tall and that was always an advantage in an era where pitches and protection weren't heavily favoured in the direction of batters. 

 

Shardul Thakur easily used his batting ability to play a lot of games for India. So did Deepak Chahar whenever he was fit....what stopped likes of Unadkut, Mukesh, Sakariya etc to work on their batting at an acceptable level...but they are too lazy and incompetent to put any effort.

Edited May 1, 2024 by singhvivek141

[Kron]

24 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Absolutely

Shaun Pollock, Richard Hadlee, Chris Woakes, post injury Kapil Dev, Heath Streak etc there are numerous examples in internationals.

 

People often quote Walsh & Ambrose but Walsh was easily 135+ in his early days and Ambrose around 139-140. Plus they were exceptionally tall and that was always an advantage in an era where pitches and protection weren't heavily favoured in the direction of batters. 

 

Shardul Thakur easily used his batting ability to play a lot of games for India. So did Deepak Chahar whenever he was fit....what stopped likes of Unadkut, Mukesh, Sakariya etc to work on their batting at an acceptable level...but they are too lazy and incompetent to put any effort.

Pollock until age 30 was 134 to 139

 

Only after that he slowed down. But he had great skills and can seam both ways ans had a decent bouncer. Plus he can bat. 

 

Same with hadlee

Woakes also bowls 133 to 138. Plus he bats really well.

 

Yep if you are a trundler MAKE SURE YOU CAN BAT AND AVERAGE MORE THAN 15 WITH THE BAT. 

Also you need skills if you are a trundler. Seam both ways, bouncer or a combo of both. 

[Adamant]

2 hours ago, Kron said:

If you are bowling under 135 on average and you don't have the ability to bowl between 135 to 145 then quit trying to become a premium bowlers. Focus on becoming a BOwling all rounder or batting all rounder. 

 

If under 135 either forget bowling or focus on being All rounder. Otherwise get lost.

Pollock, Philander, Mcgrath (for most of his career), Southee, Anderson, Broad, Garner, Asif, Zaheer(most of his career), Jamieson, Bracken, Clark, Hadlee

[Kron]

27 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Pollock, Philander, Mcgrath (for most of his career), Southee, Anderson, Broad, Garner, Asif, Zaheer(most of his career), Jamieson, Bracken, Clark, Hadlee

Mcgrath was 134 to 140 in his prime. 

Same with Pollock

Garner was 130 plus

 

Jamieson also csn touch 140. 

Bracken is a odi bowler.

Hadlee was 135 plus in his prime.

 

Lolander is only good in specific conditions. He was trash in Asia.

 

Anderson can touch 140 and even did as late as 2 years ago. He was 135 to 140 in his prime. So was broad. 

 

Southee is slow I agree. But he isn't an atg. 

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Pollock, Philander, Mcgrath (for most of his career), Southee, Anderson, Broad, Garner, Asif, Zaheer(most of his career), Jamieson, Bracken, Clark, Hadlee

Waqar Younis too looked at his lethal best when he became a 135 clicks seamer with skills in his last phase. Before that when the ball was in legal shape, he looked ordinary most times. Missed his early career except him knocking down stumps of hapless gora tailenders with a ball that didn’t look like a traditional ball.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Mcgrath was 134 to 140 in his prime. 

 

McGrath, in the 1999 WC, averaged 138 k with fastest of 142 k atleast.

 

He was a 29 year old then and playing for 5 or 6 years.

 

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Same with Pollock

 

Tall, bouncy and 130 to 140 k. Got a lot of xip off the deck.

 

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Garner was 130 plus

 

Garner was never measured. He was definitely Fast-medium. Got the ball to rear up nastily from length. 

 

1 hour ago, Kron said:

 

Jamieson also csn touch 140. 

 

Most of his success has been in swing friendly NZ. Plus he is really tall and bouncy.

 

1 hour ago, Kron said:

 

Hadlee was 135 plus in his prime.

 

Definitely Fast-medium in his best years. Had a vicious bumper.

 

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Lolander is only good in specific conditions. He was trash in Asia.

 

Philander averages around 38 in tests in Asia.

 

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Anderson can touch 140 and even did as late as 2 years ago. He was 135 to 140 in his prime. So was broad. 

 

Anderson bowled 135 to 145 k in his quickest 3 or 4 tears and 130 to 142 k for a,very long time.

 

Plus he is 6'2" and bouncy. Gets a lot of zip off the deck.

 

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Southee is slow I agree. But he isn't an atg. 

 

Southee averages almost 30 in tests despite playing half the time in swing friendly NZ. Averages 33+ in ODIs 

 

We are not looking for such a bowler nowadays 

[tapandrun]

Simranjeet is impact sub can see him bowling today....??

[express bowling]

Arshdeep  1 for 52  , ER of 13 in an innings with RR of 8

 

I have him in my preferred WC squad.

 

But he needs to pull up his socks. 

 

Swing has reduced upfront  and yorkers have lost both accuracy and pace at the end.

[singhvivek141]

Just now, express bowling said:

Arshdeep  1 for 52  , ER of 13 in an innings with RR of 8

 

I have him in my preferred WC squad.

 

But he needs to pull up his socks. 

 

Swing has reduced upfront  and yorkers have lost both accuracy and pace at the end.

He is not bowling yorkers...he is just bowling full tosses after full tosses.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Simranjeet is impact sub can see him bowling today....??

 

Rizvi has got in.

[tapandrun]

/D.chahar walks off the field just bowling few ball. Humidity.....??? or players coming to ipls carrying injuries ....??

[maniac]

Does Deepak Chahar play domestic 50 over cricket at least? Doesn’t play first class, not sure if he plays SMAT, how does he get injured so often?

[tapandrun]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Does Deepak Chahar play domestic 50 over cricket at least? Doesn’t play first class, not sure if he plays SMAT, how does he get injured so often?

Do not think he played much 3/5 matches in smat, 

[TellTheTruth]

What happens if Arshdeep and Siraj struggle rest of the tournament and Mosin khan and Harshit bowl really well? I can understand Arshdeep selection but Siraj as the 3rd seemer, and  khaleel and Avesh as backups ahead of Mosin Khan and harshit is very bizarre.

[AKane]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

4 hours ago, Kron said:

Garner was 130 plus

 

Garner was never measured. He was definitely Fast-medium. Got the ball to rear up nastily from length. 

Garner supposedly 6-8 had a full overarm action bowling off of his toes and the ball literally came from the skies.

 

He averaged 20.97 for 259 wickets in tests and 18.84 for 146 wickets in ODIs. Garner had 881 FC wickets at 18.81 and 346 ListA wickets at 16.61

 

Mind you playing with 3 other ATG fast bowlers in tests and ODIs, they shared the easy tailender wickets getting fewer of them than say a McGrath + Lee or Waqar + Wasim.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2024 by AKane

[AKane]

7 minutes ago, TellTheTruth said:

What happens if Arshdeep and Siraj struggle rest of the tournament and Mosin khan and Harshit bowl really well?

My guess is nothing will happen. Arshdeep and Siraj are in and Mohsin and Harshit are out.... and that is that.

[Adamant]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

McGrath, in the 1999 WC, averaged 138 k with fastest of 142 k atleast.

 

He was a 29 year old then and playing for 5 or 6 years.

 

 

Tall, bouncy and 130 to 140 k. Got a lot of xip off the deck.

 

 

Garner was never measured. He was definitely Fast-medium. Got the ball to rear up nastily from length. 

 

 

Most of his success has been in swing friendly NZ. Plus he is really tall and bouncy.

 

 

Definitely Fast-medium in his best years. Had a vicious bumper.

 

 

Philander averages around 38 in tests in Asia.

 

 

Anderson bowled 135 to 145 k in his quickest 3 or 4 tears and 130 to 142 k for a,very long time.

 

Plus he is 6'2" and bouncy. Gets a lot of zip off the deck.

 

 

Southee averages almost 30 in tests despite playing half the time in swing friendly NZ. Averages 33+ in ODIs 

 

We are not looking for such a bowler nowadays 

 

4 hours ago, Kron said:

Mcgrath was 134 to 140 in his prime. 

Same with Pollock

Garner was 130 plus

 

Jamieson also csn touch 140. 

Bracken is a odi bowler.

Hadlee was 135 plus in his prime.

 

Lolander is only good in specific conditions. He was trash in Asia.

 

Anderson can touch 140 and even did as late as 2 years ago. He was 135 to 140 in his prime. So was broad. 

 

Southee is slow I agree. But he isn't an atg. 

It doesn't matter who could touch 140, Bhuvi has also touched 140+ multiple times so does Arshdeep, but I see you guys ridiculing them many times. 

 

@express bowling what does Mcgrath bowling 138 on average in one tournament has to do with his overall career, he was as successful even in later years when he was bowling 130kph on average.

 

Philander is a better bowler than anyone bar Bumrah that we have produced till date, he was not successful in Asia but he was great in Aus, Nz, Sa, Eng, UAE thats good enough, we will start winning more away series if we get someone like him in our team. 

 

 

Hadlee was around 135 for most of his career. 

 

Pollock was even slower for most of his caw, touching 140 at some point of his career adds nothing to your point. 

 

Asif was even slower. 

 

 

 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Arshdeep  1 for 52  , ER of 13 in an innings with RR of 8

 

I have him in my preferred WC squad.

 

But he needs to pull up his socks. 

 

Swing has reduced upfront  and yorkers have lost both accuracy and pace at the end.

Arshdeep is an average bowler , we can never expect miracles from him, I hope that he bowls with control , takes one wkt with the new ball and leaks less runs, thats the best we can get out of him 

[express bowling]

39 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 

It doesn't matter who could touch 140, Bhuvi has also touched 140+ multiple times so does Arshdeep, but I see you guys ridiculing them many times. 

 

@express bowling what does Mcgrath bowling 138 on average in one tournament has to do with his overall career, he was as successful even in later years when he was bowling 130kph on average.

 

Philander is a better bowler than anyone bar Bumrah that we have produced till date, he was not successful in Asia but he was great in Aus, Nz, Sa, Eng, UAE thats good enough, we will start winning more away series if we get someone like him in our team. 

 

 

Hadlee was around 135 for most of his career. 

 

Pollock was even slower for most of his caw, touching 140 at some point of his career adds nothing to your point. 

 

Asif was even slower. 

 

 

 

Tall, hit the deck, bouncy pacers can succeed at lesser pace, provided they get the ball to zip off the deck or bowl a heavy ball. 

 

Most of the international level pacers who did well at average pace of less than 135 k got steep and sharp bounce ftom a high release point. Not tennis ball slow bounce. 

 

If you lack pace then you must have height, bounce and accuracy  OR you must be a generational talent in terms of other skills. 

 

Bhuvi was neither.  Arshdeep has more potential as he has height, a high release point and a good bumper. But he should try to bowl a heavier ball, even if released at 132 k.  I usually pick him in my preferred T20I squads. 

Edited May 1, 2024 by express bowling