IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Adamant]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

McGrath, in the 1999 WC, averaged 138 k with fastest of 142 k atleast.

 

He was a 29 year old then and playing for 5 or 6 years.

 

 

Tall, bouncy and 130 to 140 k. Got a lot of xip off the deck.

 

 

Garner was never measured. He was definitely Fast-medium. Got the ball to rear up nastily from length. 

 

 

Most of his success has been in swing friendly NZ. Plus he is really tall and bouncy.

 

 

Definitely Fast-medium in his best years. Had a vicious bumper.

 

 

Philander averages around 38 in tests in Asia.

 

 

Anderson bowled 135 to 145 k in his quickest 3 or 4 tears and 130 to 142 k for a,very long time.

 

Plus he is 6'2" and bouncy. Gets a lot of zip off the deck.

 

 

Southee averages almost 30 in tests despite playing half the time in swing friendly NZ. Averages 33+ in ODIs 

 

We are not looking for such a bowler nowadays 

 

4 hours ago, Kron said:

Mcgrath was 134 to 140 in his prime. 

Same with Pollock

Garner was 130 plus

 

Jamieson also csn touch 140. 

Bracken is a odi bowler.

Hadlee was 135 plus in his prime.

 

Lolander is only good in specific conditions. He was trash in Asia.

 

Anderson can touch 140 and even did as late as 2 years ago. He was 135 to 140 in his prime. So was broad. 

 

Southee is slow I agree. But he isn't an atg. 

It doesn't matter who could touch 140, Bhuvi has also touched 140+ multiple times so does Arshdeep, but I see you guys ridiculing them many times. 

 

@express bowling what does Mcgrath bowling 138 on average in one tournament has to do with his overall career, he was as successful even in later years when he was bowling 130kph on average.

 

Philander is a better bowler than anyone bar Bumrah that we have produced till date, he was not successful in Asia but he was great in Aus, Nz, Sa, Eng, UAE thats good enough, we will start winning more away series if we get someone like him in our team. 

 

 

Hadlee was around 135 for most of his career. 

 

Pollock was even slower for most of his caw, touching 140 at some point of his career adds nothing to your point. 

 

Asif was even slower. 

 

 

 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Arshdeep  1 for 52  , ER of 13 in an innings with RR of 8

 

I have him in my preferred WC squad.

 

But he needs to pull up his socks. 

 

Swing has reduced upfront  and yorkers have lost both accuracy and pace at the end.

Arshdeep is an average bowler , we can never expect miracles from him, I hope that he bowls with control , takes one wkt with the new ball and leaks less runs, thats the best we can get out of him 

[express bowling]

39 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 

It doesn't matter who could touch 140, Bhuvi has also touched 140+ multiple times so does Arshdeep, but I see you guys ridiculing them many times. 

 

@express bowling what does Mcgrath bowling 138 on average in one tournament has to do with his overall career, he was as successful even in later years when he was bowling 130kph on average.

 

Philander is a better bowler than anyone bar Bumrah that we have produced till date, he was not successful in Asia but he was great in Aus, Nz, Sa, Eng, UAE thats good enough, we will start winning more away series if we get someone like him in our team. 

 

 

Hadlee was around 135 for most of his career. 

 

Pollock was even slower for most of his caw, touching 140 at some point of his career adds nothing to your point. 

 

Asif was even slower. 

 

 

 

Tall, hit the deck, bouncy pacers can succeed at lesser pace, provided they get the ball to zip off the deck or bowl a heavy ball. 

 

Most of the international level pacers who did well at average pace of less than 135 k got steep and sharp bounce ftom a high release point. Not tennis ball slow bounce. 

 

If you lack pace then you must have height, bounce and accuracy  OR you must be a generational talent in terms of other skills. 

 

Bhuvi was neither.  Arshdeep has more potential as he has height, a high release point and a good bumper. But he should try to bowl a heavier ball, even if released at 132 k.  I usually pick him in my preferred T20I squads. 

Edited May 1 by express bowling

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Arshdeep is an average bowler , we can never expect miracles from him, I hope that he bowls with control , takes one wkt with the new ball and leaks less runs, thats the best we can get out of him 

 

Arshdeep had swing upfront and an accurate yorker. 

 

Needs to get these two aspects back. 

[singhvivek141]

29 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 

It doesn't matter who could touch 140, Bhuvi has also touched 140+ multiple times so does Arshdeep, but I see you guys ridiculing them many times. 

 

@express bowling what does Mcgrath bowling 138 on average in one tournament has to do with his overall career, he was as successful even in later years when he was bowling 130kph on average.

 

Philander is a better bowler than anyone bar Bumrah that we have produced till date, he was not successful in Asia but he was great in Aus, Nz, Sa, Eng, UAE thats good enough, we will start winning more away series if we get someone like him in our team. 

 

 

Hadlee was around 135 for most of his career. 

 

Pollock was even slower for most of his caw, touching 140 at some point of his career adds nothing to your point. 

 

Asif was even slower. 

 

 

 

Philander averaged 32 in Australia as well.

He is inferior to not only Bumrah but to Shami as well, 2 of our best modern day fast bowlers.

 

McGrath was easily a 135-145 bowler for most of his years...by the time he became slow he actually had the experience to compensate for his lack of pace.

 

Pollock's wicket taking ability went down as he became slower, post 2003/04 there were many articles and questions were raised if he really had the wicket taking ability. He was easily a 135-140 bowler like Anderson, not to mention how quality he was with the bat. He could easily had become an Imran Khan level batter if he wanted to...but he never left his aggressive side because that's what SA needed from him.

 

Hadlee was again an impeccably skillful bowler, who can make the bowl talk at will. Was a handy batter as well.

 

Bhuvi was at his best when he played from 2012-2014..only used for new ball. Post his injury after England test series he started to lose his new ball skills. Then tried to transform himself a death over bowler, and went downhill, even his batting dipped which was a usp for him on his younger days.

Not to mention he is an ultra defensive bowler and never has the attitude of fighting fire with fire. He simply succumbs to pressure and start bowling wides the moment he is under attack.

[Adamant]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Tall, hit the deck, bouncy pacers can succeed at lesser pace, provided they get the ball to zip off thd deck or bowl a heavy ball. 

 

Most of the international level pacers who did well at average pace of less than 135 k got steep and sharp bounce ftom a high release point. Not tennis ball slow bounce. 

 

If you lack pace then you must have height, bounce and accuracy  OR you must be a generational talent in terms of other skills. 

 

Bhuvi was neither.  Arshdeep has more potential as he has height, a high release point and a good bumper. But he should try to bowl a heavier ball, even if released at 132 k.  I usually pick him in my preferred T20I squads. 

Yes. If you don’t have pace you need other things in your arsenal, like extra bounce, skiddiness, heavy ball or swing.

 

Just because you don’t have 140+ pace doesn’t mean you can’t succeed, that’s my point, also Kapil was even slower than 135

[singhvivek141]

12 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Arshdeep is an average bowler , we can never expect miracles from him, I hope that he bowls with control , takes one wkt with the new ball and leaks less runs, thats the best we can get out of him 

If you remember the games vs Pakistan & SL when Bhuvi lost the game by leaking runs and Arshdeep has only 7/8 runs to defend last over, he was actually bowling at 140-142 clicks at death and hence wasn't going for runs.

 

Now he is barely floating the ball at low 130's and his accuracy is also off. Arshdeep which we saw in 2020-2022 IPL is nowhere to be seen in this season.

[express bowling]

33 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Yes. If you don’t have pace you need other things in your arsenal, like extra bounce, skiddiness, heavy ball or swing.

 

Just because you don’t have 140+ pace doesn’t mean you can’t succeed, that’s my point, also Kapil was even slower than 135

 

The reason why I want Indian pacers to be 135 k to 145 k atleast is because we don't really get pacers like Garner, Ambrose, McGrath or Walsh .. who are really really tall and hit the bat very high and hard.

 

Only Ishant was 6'5" but he did not get the steep bounce of a 6'5" McGrath. 

 

And coming from a country with only one pacer averaging 25 or less and with 100+ test wickets .. one cannot expect the bowling smarts of a Philander. One has to just listen to Philander talk about pace bowling and he will understand that this kind of bowling smarts is very very rare and comes from passed through knowledge from other great quicks of his country. 

 

Most good Indian pacers will be 5'9" to 6'3" and preferably atleast 135 k to 145 k or higher. At this height and average bowling smarts, some pace is needed.

Edited May 1 by express bowling

[tapandrun]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Arshdeep  1 for 52  , ER of 13 in an innings with RR of 8

 

I have him in my preferred WC squad.

 

But he needs to pull up his socks. 

 

Swing has reduced upfront  and yorkers have lost both accuracy and pace at the end.

Ind does not have many bowling options anyways,  and to find the balance only 2 seamers can play in the 11, 3rd seamer has to be Pandaya.

 

So the problem arrises if Ind would like to use Bhumrah in PP or not, Both Singh and Pandaya are struggling and Pandya cannot bowl outside PP and last 3/4 overs.

And Ind does have any other option that can bowl in PP, so it would be 2 over each from the 3 seamers or 3 overs from Pandaya and 2 and 1 from either Bhumrah and Singh. Rohit would like to keep 2 over from Bhumrah for last 3/4 overs and 1 over in the middle.

 

Looking at the IPL trends batters are playing out the best bowler even at 6-8 eco. they are able to capitalize on rest of the bowlers.

 

Ind would need tight and overs with wkts from Kuldeep, which could be hard against teams who play modern t20 shots or have big hitters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1 by tapandrun

[Kron]

5 hours ago, Adamant said:

 

It doesn't matter who could touch 140, Bhuvi has also touched 140+ multiple times so does Arshdeep, but I see you guys ridiculing them many times. 

 

@express bowling what does Mcgrath bowling 138 on average in one tournament has to do with his overall career, he was as successful even in later years when he was bowling 130kph on average.

 

Philander is a better bowler than anyone bar Bumrah that we have produced till date, he was not successful in Asia but he was great in Aus, Nz, Sa, Eng, UAE thats good enough, we will start winning more away series if we get someone like him in our team. 

 

 

Hadlee was around 135 for most of his career. 

 

Pollock was even slower for most of his caw, touching 140 at some point of his career adds nothing to your point. 

 

Asif was even slower. 

 

 

 

All of them were tall and had good bounce too. That's the point. If you are a trundler you need additional skills. Well atleast majority were tall. 

 

Point being they were not even trundlers. In their peaks they could bowl 135 plus to 140. That is not a trundler

 

Only philander and southee are actual trundlers and that's why both have average stats outside seaming wickets. Philander was a joke in Asia mostly apart from u.a.e

 

Southee surprisingly did well in India. But he is tall again with good bounce.

Edited May 1 by Kron

[Kron]

5 hours ago, Adamant said:

 

It doesn't matter who could touch 140, Bhuvi has also touched 140+ multiple times so does Arshdeep, but I see you guys ridiculing them many times. 

 

@express bowling what does Mcgrath bowling 138 on average in one tournament has to do with his overall career, he was as successful even in later years when he was bowling 130kph on average.

 

Philander is a better bowler than anyone bar Bumrah that we have produced till date, he was not successful in Asia but he was great in Aus, Nz, Sa, Eng, UAE thats good enough, we will start winning more away series if we get someone like him in our team. 

 

 

Hadlee was around 135 for most of his career. 

 

Pollock was even slower for most of his caw, touching 140 at some point of his career adds nothing to your point. 

 

Asif was even slower. 

 

 

 

Also shami and kapil are better than lolander. Biggest stat padder ever like the king

[Kron]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

Yes. If you don’t have pace you need other things in your arsenal, like extra bounce, skiddiness, heavy ball or swing.

 

Just because you don’t have 140+ pace doesn’t mean you can’t succeed, that’s my point, also Kapil was even slower than 135

That is correct. 

[Kron]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

The reason why I want Indian pacers to be 135 k to 145 k atleast is because we don't really get pacers like Garner, Ambrose, McGrath or Walsh .. who are really really tall and hit the bat very high and hard.

 

Only Ishant was 6'5" but he did not get the steep bounce of a 6'5" McGrath. 

 

And coming from a country with only one pacer averaging 25 or less and with 100+ test wickets .. one cannot expect the bowling smarts of a Philander. One has to just listen to Philander talk about pace bowling and he will understand that this kind of bowling smarts is very very rare and comes from passed through knowledge from other great quicks of his country. 

 

Most good Indian pacers will be 5'9" to 6'3" and preferably atleast 135 k to 145 k or higher. At this height and average bowling smarts, some pace is needed.

Even if you are tall you need 130 to 140 pace. Less than that generally just won't work. You can take off 5 kmph max if you are very tall

 

Shorties on the other hand it's more ruthless. 135 to 145. Anything below will be cannon fodder.

[rkt.india]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6b3Rq8h54w/?igsh=MXBwemt6aDc2Y3FjOA==

 

Sahil Gulzar from Kashmir bowling serious pace in KKR nets.

[Kron]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6b3Rq8h54w/?igsh=MXBwemt6aDc2Y3FjOA==

 

Sahil Gulzar from Kashmir bowling serious pace in KKR nets.

Cant really get a clear visual bro

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Kron said:

Cant really get a clear visual bro

Bowling in local club match.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6d_2PlBui2/?igsh=MXY4Z3hsOG5oczh6Mg==

 

 

[Kron]

59 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bowling in local club match.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6d_2PlBui2/?igsh=MXY4Z3hsOG5oczh6Mg==

 

 

One thing I don't get is express bowlers like mayank. They sure would bowl alot in nets. Then how does he get hurt after just 3 overs. 

 

 Back in the days holding, Roberts etc used to run in hard and bowl long spells for fitness. 

 

Something is wrong with the training.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Kron said:

One thing I don't get is express bowlers like mayank. They sure would bowl alot in nets. Then how does he get hurt after just 3 overs. 

 

 Back in the days holding, Roberts etc used to run in hard and bowl long spells for fitness. 

 

Something is wrong with the training.

A fast bowler can get hurt even after one ball.  All fast bowlers have had injury issues.  and no bowling long overs does not make you fit, it only makes you skills permanent. 

[Forward Defence]

Chahal is giving a massive boost to our confidence levels before Wt20. Ever since the squad has been announced all the guys selected have been abysmal.

[Forward Defence]

Klaasen has been smashing Chahal since 2018