After COVID failure time to abolish IAS.

[Trichromatic]

11 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Muslims?

 

Create a thread about it and see the reaction.

[Mariyam]

11 hours ago, Khota said:

IAS is about power and abuse of power.

 

@Mariyam a hypothetical question for you.

 

Will a lawyer with 20 years experience make a better Distric Magistrate or a kid who is good at recall and regurgitate exam?

 

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

1. You're assuming that all IAS become DM straightaway after training.

2. Another assumption - All DMs are young kids. There are 6500 IAS officers in India. Number of IAS selected each year is around 200. Which means 70% IAS would be 10+ years of experience.

3. 20 years experienced lawyer has lesser chances of become better admin than 10 years guy already as DM.

4. Any new profession will require person to spend 5-10 years just to get accustomed to it. A 20 years exp lawyer will have another 15 years left in his career. By the time he learns tricks of trade, he will be close to retirement.

5. Labelling IAS as kid good at recall regurgitate. They are IT professionals, doctors, managers and some random lawyer is better than him.

6. Why will a person already successful in his career will want to switch field? If he is not successful and then how will he become better in DM roles?

 

To add to this, the role of the DM has reduced vastly since independence.

Today a DM is just another way to say the District Collector. A role that requires a far better administrative and revenue collection aptitude than being an expert in just law. After the institutionalization of the CrPC, the criminal law jurisdiction of the DM has been abolished.

 

@Khota

 

 

[Trichromatic]

Moreover posts like third grade BA MA shouldn't be allowed on ICF.

 

Insulting to millions of Indians who choose Arts and Humanities as stream, filled with fake superiority complex arising due to God knows what type of degrees posters are holding. 

 

Reporting the post, hopefully mods will look into it. 

[urbestfriend]

Sometimes I dont know whether to laugh or cry about this type of threads. Such generalizations saying IAS are cause of all ills India facing is ludicrous. I feel there is a lot of scope for improvement in administrative services, we can simply ridicule them as recall regurgitates. Yes, some of the civil service exams may push people who are good in memory, which by no means can be assumed as best administrators. But what are the alternatives? Civil service is one of the toughest exams, and hence somebody who aces it must be at least intelligent person. Now coming to administration skills, these skills can be learnt in jobs. Hence IAS has got one of the best training, and people can improve in the job itself.  We can't just bring in lateral hires from private sectors to administrative services without any controversy. Each ruling party may bring in its own people resulting in more confusion. Any subjective system for government recruitement wont be spared from controversies, even it is well intentioned. Any objective system helps those hard workers, good in recall abilities to ace without taking the leadership skills. but this is the best system in current circumstances. Problem with IAS/IPS are they become puppets of their political masters. Political leaders also put their people in the key positions leading to good people losing out. There are enough good/upright and innovative people in IAS but the system doesn't identify them and place them in key positions. Thats where the ill lies, but blaming the whole system without stating alternatives  is laughable.

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

1. You're assuming that all IAS become DM straightaway after training.

2. Another assumption - All DMs are young kids. There are 6500 IAS officers in India. Number of IAS selected each year is around 200. Which means 70% IAS would be 10+ years of experience.

3. 20 years experienced lawyer has lesser chances of become better admin than 10 years guy already as DM.

4. Any new profession will require person to spend 5-10 years just to get accustomed to it. A 20 years exp lawyer will have another 15 years left in his career. By the time he learns tricks of trade, he will be close to retirement.

5. Labelling IAS as kid good at recall regurgitate. They are IT professionals, doctors, managers and some random lawyer is better than him.

6. Why will a person already successful in his career will want to switch field? If he is not successful and then how will he become better in DM roles?

 

1. They become DM very shortly.

2. Several instances of these are posted shortly.

3. A 20 years as a lawyer with law degree will have infinitely more knowledge about law compared to someone with Medical degree who can clear a recall and regugitate exam.

4.He will be infinitely better than a gguy with Engineering degree pretending to be a lawyer.

5. They are all that but real good at these exams.

6.People make changes all the time. Moreover this change is to serve the country.

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

 

To add to this, the role of the DM has reduced vastly since independence.

Today a DM is just another way to say the District Collector. A role that requires a far better administrative and revenue collection aptitude than being an expert in just law. After the institutionalization of the CrPC, the criminal law jurisdiction of the DM has been abolished.

 

@Khota

 

 

Would someone with taxation law not be a better candidate. It sure is not a role for engineer to play.

[Khota]

3 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Moreover posts like third grade BA MA shouldn't be allowed on ICF.

 

Insulting to millions of Indians who choose Arts and Humanities as stream, filled with fake superiority complex arising due to God knows what type of degrees posters are holding. 

 

Reporting the post, hopefully mods will look into it. 

Can you show one post where I have ridiculed liberal arts?

[Trichromatic]

Just now, Khota said:

Can you show one post where I have ridiculed liberal arts?

 

Where did I mention that you did so? I have reported the post which did.

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Can you share your detailed evaluation report which you prepared after interview and analysis of 100s of IAS which helped you reaching conclusion that they have zero skill set to solve any real world problem?

Detailed evaluation for you is the collapse of health care in India. This governance model is not working.

[Khota]

2 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Where did I mention that you did so? I have reported the post which did.

I apologize, I thought it was directed at me.

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, Khota said:

1. They become DM very shortly.

 

 

What is very shortly?

 

There are 718 districts in India.

 

Probably 4000+ IAS with 10+ experience. If IAS are becoming DM "very shortly" then what are experienced ones doing?

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Can you share what % of IAS are from having third class BA/MA degrees?

 

https://theprint.in/india/governance/engineers-still-account-for-60-of-new-civil-servants-despite-upscs-attempts-at-diversity/528535/

 

Engineers still account for 60% of new civil servants, despite UPSC’s attempts at diversity

 

 

All that  means is engineers are better at taking this exam.

 

Does not make them better administrators.

 

Why did they study engineering if they had no interest in it. Depriving someone of a due chance at being an engineer.

[Khota]

5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

What is very shortly?

 

There are 718 districts in India.

 

Probably 4000+ IAS with 10+ experience. If IAS are becoming DM "very shortly" then what are experienced ones doing?

They get into secratarial level track etc. When they are young they become DM etc.

 

Anyway point to me what relevant experience they have to handle it except good at taking recall exams.

[Trichromatic]

8 minutes ago, Khota said:

6.People make changes all the time. Moreover this change is to serve the country.

 

And if someone is successful in their law career, what will attract them towards IAS? Chance to serve country won't already experienced. Such group of people will be even less than number of candidates currrently being shortlisted for interview.? Force people to join.

[Trichromatic]

Just now, Khota said:

They get into secratarial level track etc. When they are young they become DM etc.

 

Anyway point to me what relevant experience they have to handle it except good at taking recall exams.

 

That question applied in each and every sector.

 

No one has experience at their jobs right from start.

[Khota]

42 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

Sometimes I dont know whether to laugh or cry about this type of threads. Such generalizations saying IAS are cause of all ills India facing is ludicrous. I feel there is a lot of scope for improvement in administrative services, we can simply ridicule them as recall regurgitates. Yes, some of the civil service exams may push people who are good in memory, which by no means can be assumed as best administrators. But what are the alternatives? Civil service is one of the toughest exams, and hence somebody who aces it must be at least intelligent person. Now coming to administration skills, these skills can be learnt in jobs. Hence IAS has got one of the best training, and people can improve in the job itself.  We can't just bring in lateral hires from private sectors to administrative services without any controversy. Each ruling party may bring in its own people resulting in more confusion. Any subjective system for government recruitement wont be spared from controversies, even it is well intentioned. Any objective system helps those hard workers, good in recall abilities to ace without taking the leadership skills. but this is the best system in current circumstances. Problem with IAS/IPS are they become puppets of their political masters. Political leaders also put their people in the key positions leading to good people losing out. There are enough good/upright and innovative people in IAS but the system doesn't identify them and place them in key positions. Thats where the ill lies, but blaming the whole system without stating alternatives  is laughable.

 

You should cry at it hurts the country when it is being mismanaged.

 

I did mention the alternative. For IAS you should have 20 years experience in private inustry.

 

 

[Khota]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

That question applied in each and every sector.

 

No one has experience at their jobs right from start.

IAS is the ultimate job. You need subject matter experts in every position. Not good exam takers.

[Trichromatic]

Just now, Khota said:

IAS is the ultimate job. You need subject matter experts in every position. Not good exam takers.

 

Can you give some examples that which SMEs will be suited in which types of roles IAS play?

[Khota]

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

And if someone is successful in their law career, what will attract them towards IAS? Chance to serve country won't already experienced. Such group of people will be even less than number of candidates currrently being shortlisted for interview.? Force people to join.

In a country of 1 billion people you will always find few hundred. That is not a problem.

[Khota]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Can you give some examples that which SMEs will be suited in which types of roles IAS play?

 

In law dept someone with a law degree will always be better than an IAS officer with an engineering degree. That should not be difficult to understand.