zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Don't bring Dayavan , every time we talk about Nayakkan. They are not even in the same scale to compare. I wouldn't even compare FK as an actor/director in the same sentence as RK/MR Buddy, I don't think you understand what is written or what qualities are being compared. Tomorrow, if two actors are compared based on height, you could interpret as if their acting is being compared (read) ... As for Nayakan and Dayavan, I do not think they have aged as well as I would have liked esp. for 80s films
coffee_rules Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, zen said: Buddy, I don't think you understand what is written or what qualities are being compared. Tomorrow, if two actors are compared based on height, you could interpret as if their acting is being compared (read) ... As for Nayakan and Dayavan, I do not think they have aged as well as I would have liked esp. for 80s films You think I am comparing about as superficial as height, you are way off, in this discussion
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, coffee_rules said: You think I am comparing about as superficial as height, you are way off, in this discussion Buddy, "read" ... the point is on various dimensions of a comparison
neel roy Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) Other than already discussed movies above I ll also have Jewel Thief ( masterclass in film making. Goldie Vijay Anand never got his due. Teesri Manzil Guide Jewel Thief Johhny Mera Naam.. what director he was) Daag ( fantastic movie and even famous sahir ludhyanvis dialogues) Namak Haram ( Subdued acting from Bachhan but had enough impact) Kagaz ke Phool ( another masterpiece which never got its due) Choti si baat ( simple evergreen love story of a common man) my favourite actor amol palekar:). Once upon a time i was a master in his mimicry;) jaane bhi do yaaro ( anything left to say ) satyakam ( dharmendra s best acting ever) Khoobsoorat ( only rekha could pull it off.. amazing movie) and the one and only Sadma ( i still feel like crying seeing the last scene. Kamal hassan is and was and still is the finest actor we would ever see) Edited June 21, 2021 by neel roy coffee_rules 1
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) @coffee_rules you made a statement like "I wouldn't even compare FK as an actor/director in the same sentence as RK/MR" where MR stands for Mani Ratnam From a Bollywood perspective, MR is not a major draw when you look at his Bollywood films - Dil Se, Saathiya, Yuva, Guru and Ravan. I can only recall Guru. FK, a masala film maker, has a much greater impact on Bollywood with his major films. FK's films like Qurbani have been remade in South as well (Viduthalai). In fact it is even remade in Turkish (Çare Sende Allahım) which is an even lower quality adaption of Qurbani. Qurbani is roughly based on the Master Touch starring Kirk Douglas but Qurbani improves upon it Edited June 21, 2021 by zen
neel roy Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, zen said: @coffee_rules you made a statement like "I wouldn't even compare FK as an actor/director in the same sentence as RK/MR" where MR stands for Mani Ratnam From a Bollywood perspective, MR is not a major draw when you look at his Bollywood films - Dil Se, Saathiya, Yuva, Guru and Ravan. I can only recall Guru. FK, a masala film maker, has a much greater impact on Bollywood with his major films. FK's films like Qurbani have been remade in South as well (Viduthalai). In fact it is even remade in Turkish (Çare Sende Allahım) which is an even lower quality adaption of Qurbani. Qurbani is roughly based on the Master Touch starring Kirk Douglas but Qurbani improves upon it Qurbani other than its songs and entertainment is famous for the one shot car parking lot scene. Amazing cinematography.. if you see the scene again you will realise how many cameras were used to pull off this epic shot..
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, neel roy said: Qurbani other than its songs and entertainment is famous for the one shot car parking lot scene. Amazing cinematography.. if you see the scene again you will realise how many cameras were used to pull off this epic shot.. From what I recall. FK could not afford to lose too many Mercs (he used to allocate everything he had on the budget so made efficient use of it) ... FK also mounted expensive cameras on cars in the London segment, which were destroyed during a shot in the quarry ... Zeenat Aman was late for a shot and FK is said to have asked her to pay for the time lost ... On one hand, he was known to be dildaar, but when it came to films, he was efficient with the budget and therefore strict PS Yesteryears’ star Zeenat Aman has revealed that once late actor Feroz Khan asked her to pay the fees for the entire crew when she came late to the sets of 1980 film Qurbani. After this episode, she never got late on shoots. “Feroz Khan was a very professional man. During the shoot of ‘Qurbani’, once I was an hour late on the set and the crew members had been waiting for me. Feroz Khan asked me to pay for the entire crew’s fees for that hour,” Zeenat said on TV show My Life My Story. “Initially, I thought he was joking, but he was very serious. I paid for it and from thereon, I was never late on any of my shoots,” she added. Link Edited June 21, 2021 by zen neel roy 1
Jimmy Cliff Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, neel roy said: Qurbani other than its songs and entertainment is famous for the one shot car parking lot scene. Amazing cinematography.. if you see the scene again you will realise how many cameras were used to pull off this epic shot.. Good old CTRL+C CTRL+V at work . neel roy 1
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 I tried to watch Viduthalai, a Qurbani remake, this thing does not even have 5% the charm of Qurbani ... Screen presence of FK is at a different level The Turkish version is even more horrible:
coffee_rules Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 Why are you bringing Viduthalai in this comparison of FK and MR? Did MR make Viduthalai? Who's even defending Viduthalai as classic filmaking? Just like Nayakkan->Dayavan, Balaji, the producer (who remade Don and other pop Hindi movies in Tamil), tried to adapt the story to south Indian sensibilities. You look like a petty guy to bring it in this debate? Qurbani has good production values, but not a classic to talking in the same sentence as even movies like Naya Daur or Anand
neel roy Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Good old CTRL+C CTRL+V at work . You can copy Shot but not mr khans famous dialogue —- yeh lijiye sethji. Ek rupaiah..Aath Aane Shart ke.. baaki marammat ke— Jimmy Cliff and zen 1 1
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Why are you bringing Viduthalai in this comparison of FK and MR? Did MR make Viduthalai? Who's even defending Viduthalai as classic filmaking? Just like Nayakkan->Dayavan, Balaji, the producer (who remade Don and other pop Hindi movies in Tamil), tried to adapt the story to south Indian sensibilities. You look like a petty guy to bring it in this debate? Qurbani has good production values, but not a classic to talking in the same sentence as even movies like Naya Daur or Anand Among masala films, a different segment which has its own thread, Qurbani is among the best, along with films like Sholay Qurbani even improves upon the Master Touch Edited June 21, 2021 by zen
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) I am looking into Nayakan (considered by some as among the best films) and also Dayavan, which is not even FK's best: ^ difficult to watch such horrible stuff now (question marks if it has aged well) Below even on an relatively old FK is more watchable (overall still below par): Edited June 21, 2021 by zen
maniac Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 ^ Without watching it and having no interest in checking it out I am pretty sure the Tamil version of Qurbani is crap compared to the original Qurbani but lol at comparing Nayagan to Dayawan. Nayagan is a trendsetter movie. As a fan of movie background music, It has one of the greatest BGM in Indian cinema history. Even though in 2021 Kamal’s acting looks a bit over the top and I think Vinod Khanna is an underrated actor, it’s not even a contest. Also Dayawan is clearly copying the cinematography techniques used in Mani Ratnam movies who again was breaking tropes of not just South Indian cinema but Indian cinema. So not sure what kind of TV serials you are watching or you may have not seen Nayagan to think it looks like a TV serial.
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, maniac said: ^ Without watching it and having no interest in checking it out I am pretty sure the Tamil version of Qurbani is crap compared to the original Qurbani but lol at comparing Nayagan to Dayawan. Nayagan is a trendsetter movie. As a fan of movie background music, It has one of the greatest BGM in Indian cinema history. Even though in 2021 Kamal’s acting looks a bit over the top and I think Vinod Khanna is an underrated actor, it’s not even a contest. Also Dayawan is clearly copying the cinematography techniques used in Mani Ratnam movies who again was breaking tropes of not just South Indian cinema but Indian cinema. So not sure what kind of TV serials you are watching or you may have not seen Nayagan to think it looks like a TV serial. Unfortunately, FK could not deviate much from Nayakan (per the agreement) to make it better or more suitable for Bollywood ... If you can watch such stuff, GL: In 1987, it would be good but question marks it has aged well (unless you were already into it when released) Edited June 21, 2021 by zen
coffee_rules Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 Since you value top 100 lists , here's what Time chose... (you include some obscure song in the movie to compare, you are debating for the sake of it), you have no interest in south Indian movies, you are poor in exposure to Indian movies https://entertainment.time.com/2005/02/12/all-time-100-movies/slide/nayakan-1987/ Nayakan By Richard CorlissJan. 14, 2010 Director: Mani Ratnam Year Released: 1987 Cast: Kamal Hassan, Saranya, Janagaraj Get This Movie Bollywood is shorthand for Bombay Hollywood, seat of the largest Indian film industry. But it manufactures only about 200 of the thousand or so Indian feature films; a half-dozen regions boast production sites larger than most of the world’s national cinemas. Madras, capital of the Tamil state, is one such place, and its leader — arguably India’s top pop-film auteur — is Mani Ratnam. His movies, often dramatizing social unrest and political terrorism, churn with narrative tension and camera energy that would be the envy of Hollywood directors, if they were ever to see them. Nayakan, an early, defining work in his career, tells the Godfatherish tale of Velu, a boy who embraces a life of crime after his father is killed by the police. Velu (Kamal Hasan) has trouble juggling his family life with his life-and-death mob “family”; Ratnam has no such difficulty blending melodrama and music, violence and comedy, realism and delirium, into a two-and-a-half-hour demonstration that, when a gangster’s miseries are mounting, the most natural solution is to go singin’ in the rain
zen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Since you value top 100 lists , here's what Time chose... (you include some obscure song in the movie to compare, you are debating for the sake of it), you have no interest in south Indian movies, you are poor in exposure to Indian movies https://entertainment.time.com/2005/02/12/all-time-100-movies/slide/nayakan-1987/ Nayakan I am talking from 2021's perspective, not a decade ago when it could still have been good I do not watch too many Indian films apart from the Bollywood classics ... I am more into Hollywood, European and Japanese films ... I started watching Korean films before many even had exposure to those in Ind but now have moved away from those unless I come across something interesting As for South Indian films, I used to watch many dubbed films and listen to the songs (driving awareness for those in my part of the world) ...I even watched many Kamal Hassan films like Apu Raja, Hindustani, Vishwaroopam, etc. ... As a Rajnikant fan, I watched Lingaa and Kabali too. My favorite is probably Shivaji, the boss (though have not watched it recently. Maybe not even in the last 5-6 years) ... MR's Roja, Bombay, etc., were pretty good too but have not seen them recently (maybe not in the last 10 years) Edited June 21, 2021 by zen
maniac Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 My dad went to Chennai on his office trip and bought me the Roja album (Tamil version). Even though we didn’t speak Tamil,He bought it because apparently everyone was talking about this and going crazy over the album. I was literally blown away because I never heard that kind of sound ever in an Indian movie. I mean the Roja songs have still not aged and unbelievable it was the early 90’s I made some Northie friends listen to it and obviously they made fun of it and called it crap. Some even said Anu Malik’s pakachika paka Raja babu (ironically also copied from AR Rehman song) as the greatest thing since slice bread because of the dance beats Rangeela hit the screens directed by a South Indian film maker (RGV) and music by Rehman , 2 guys who changed Indian cinema and a movie that actually had a huge impact on cultural shift of Indian cinema but Bollywood got the cool factor and apparently south made only yenna rascala kind of movies. The comparison of Dayawan and Nayagan reminded me of that. Not saying is Zen is biased but the sample size of such scenarios is too large. There was a poster here iirc who was celebrating that a billion Chinese watched Dangal (obviously no red flag there) and it overtook Baahubali’s collections. I mean I can understand if Dangal was his family production just like himself but didn’t get his happiness. Anyways for what it’s worth Dangal is a much better movie than Baahubali for me. However just curious about this bias. Clearly it’s not because of any hatred, it seems very organic. That’s the bigger concern.
coffee_rules Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 Best movie Vidhaata Muthu swami bada harami...
maniac Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, zen said: Unfortunately, FK could not deviate much from Nayakan (per the agreement) to make it better or more suitable for Bollywood ... If you can watch such stuff, GL: In 1987, it would be good but question marks it has aged well (unless you were already into it when released) Nayagan is not my kind of a repeat movie but I the music has definitely not aged even today. However the only song I remember for Dayawan was the boat song copied from original and another song which I don’t remember but remember the visuals due to a make out scene with Madhuri Clearly at least Nayagan wins in 1 of the 24 krafts in film making.
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