Ravi Ashwin Interview discussion thread

[ravishingravi]

 

[R!TTER]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

May be you look at strike rate as well?  Every table you see he has a better strike rate. Jaddu is a steady wicket taker. Not going to give you like 2 or 3 wickets on the trot as often as Ashwin or even Axar for that matter.  Jaddu is a very very effective spinner. You are putting him on a pedestal like some kind of a wizard on flat tracks. You ignore things like when he is brought on, Most of the time after damage was inflicted by some other bowlers.  If you really think he is as good as you portray him to be, he should be getting 400 wickets. Let us see if he gets there. He is only 2 years younger than Ashwin.

 

1 - 7fer

2 - 6fer

6 - 5fer ( 3 of them conceding well over 100 runs)

10 - 4fers

 

1 - 10fer

 

Around the same 57 tests 

 

Ashwin

 

2 - 7fers

4 - 6fers

9 - 5fers 

6 - 4fers

 

 4-10fers

 

This was before Ashwin struck form after injury.

 

Right now he has

 

5 - 7fers

10 - 6fers

15 - 5fers

19 - 4 fers 

 

7 - 10fers

 

 

 

I'm not looking at the strike rates, I have watched those games! Not all 5 days but many of the critical phases, I'll ask you again who's the better bowler?

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Primary team India

Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away home venue

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2020 or greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Innings in match 1st innings or 2nd innings

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja	2012-2019	24	24	645.2	138	1599	68	6/63	10/154	23.51	2.47	56.9	4	1
R Ashwin	2012-2019	29	29	868.5	183	2388	91	7/103	13/140	26.24	2.74	57.2	9	6
PP Ojha	2010-2013	13	13	445.5	106	1194	37	5/45	9/165	32.27	2.67	72.2	3	0
Harbhajan Singh	2010-2013	10	10	325.3	42	952	23	4/76	8/123	41.39	2.92	84.9	0	0

 

Now tell me how do you explain this? 1st innings is generally the flattest & easiest for opposition!

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Primary team India

Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away home venue

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2020 or greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Innings in match 1st innings

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja	2012-2017	13	13	388.4	83	944	36	5/124	10/154	26.22	2.42	64.7	1	1
R Ashwin	2012-2017	14	14	444.4	83	1220	36	7/103	12/167	33.88	2.74	74.1	3	2
Harbhajan Singh	2010-2013	8	8	261.3	34	766	20	4/76	8/123	38.30	2.92	78.4	0	0

 

On those flat tracks I mentioned 

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Primary team India

Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away home venue

At ground INDIA: Arun Jaitley Stadium, Delhi or INDIA: Green Park, Kanpur or INDIA: JSCA International Stadium Complex, Ranchi or INDIA: MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chepauk, Chennai

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2020

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja	2013-2019	7	14	428.3	135	815	47	7/48	10/154	17.34	1.90	54.7	5	1
R Ashwin	2013-2019	7	14	407.3	106	1090	40	7/103	12/198	27.25	2.67	61.1	5	2

 

Right now Jadeja & Ashwin are roughly on par with bowling. Ashwin wins on foreign soil with where little bit of turn & lots of flight/variations fetches him good wickets, Jadeja hands down on flat Indian deathbeds. I did exclude his performances against Oz because they were brilliant, likewise I excluded Jadeja's numbers - you know why? Because Jadeja's played 4 matches in Oz & he's yet to lose one! You tellin me that's also a fluke 

Edited December 22, 2021 by R!TTER

[rahulgupta21]

12 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

History is a long time where we had 8 ball over, 6 test series. If you are talking about 10 year period despite it is an overwhelmingly bowler friendly era it is still harder. Especially if you are part of the side with many wicket takers, 25 wicket in a series is harder. Back in 2000 , 33 players have made 500 runs in a series. only 22 took 25 wicket haul. That is when Murali was running riot singlehandedly. Still it was not easier. Come up with better argument.

 

Jadeja has taken one fifer,  KUldeep got one fifer. That makes them better than Ashwin? I suppose since Root has not got a 100 in Australia, Rahane must be better than Root. 

 

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[R!TTER]

48 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

He should've said this after his retirement! These words will only hurt India's chances in SA, he's just playing to (his) gallery when there's overwhelming support against Brat. It's also undeniably true that he did much worse in 2018 leg of away tours, except Oz, when we needed much more from him.

[vvvslaxman]

6 hours ago, R!TTER said:

I'm not looking at the strike rates, I have watched those games! Not all 5 days but many of the critical phases, I'll ask you again who's the better bowler?

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away home venue

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2020 or greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Innings in match 1st innings or 2nd innings

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja	2012-2019	24	24	645.2	138	1599	68	6/63	10/154	23.51	2.47	56.9	4	1
R Ashwin	2012-2019	29	29	868.5	183	2388	91	7/103	13/140	26.24	2.74	57.2	9	6
PP Ojha	2010-2013	13	13	445.5	106	1194	37	5/45	9/165	32.27	2.67	72.2	3	0
Harbhajan Singh	2010-2013	10	10	325.3	42	952	23	4/76	8/123	41.39	2.92	84.9	0	0

 

Now tell me how do you explain this? 1st innings is generally the flattest & easiest for opposition!

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away home venue

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2020 or greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Innings in match 1st innings

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 3 of 3

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja	2012-2017	13	13	388.4	83	944	36	5/124	10/154	26.22	2.42	64.7	1	1
R Ashwin	2012-2017	14	14	444.4	83	1220	36	7/103	12/167	33.88	2.74	74.1	3	2
Harbhajan Singh	2010-2013	8	8	261.3	34	766	20	4/76	8/123	38.30	2.92	78.4	0	0

 

On those flat tracks I mentioned 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away home venue

At ground INDIA: Arun Jaitley Stadium, Delhi or INDIA: Green Park, Kanpur or INDIA: JSCA International Stadium Complex, Ranchi or INDIA: MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chepauk, Chennai

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2020

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 2 of 2

First  Previous

Next Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
RA Jadeja	2013-2019	7	14	428.3	135	815	47	7/48	10/154	17.34	1.90	54.7	5	1
R Ashwin	2013-2019	7	14	407.3	106	1090	40	7/103	12/198	27.25	2.67	61.1	5	2

 

Right now Jadeja & Ashwin are roughly on par with bowling. Ashwin wins on foreign soil with where little bit of turn & lots of flight/variations fetches him good wickets, Jadeja hands down on flat Indian deathbeds. I did exclude his performances against Oz because they were brilliant, likewise I excluded Jadeja's numbers - you know why? Because Jadeja's played 4 matches in Oz & he's yet to lose one! You tellin me that's also a fluke 

 

Cherry picking the years/tests/innings to create a narrative for Jaddu. His overall record would have been full of memorable spells on those "flat tracks" if that were the case.  Just 1 or 2 wickets extra  he is the latest and greatest bowler on flat tracks.  You can put down Bumrah, Umesh, Shami any bowler this way.  One is always going to be better in some aspects a tad. Ashwin's bowling was one reason Jadeja even got better. We even had discussion at the start of their career how they complemented each other. It is not like without Ashwin he would wreak havoc on his own. He created pressure from the other. Let us take a look at Jaddu's performance without Ashwin 16 tests 45 wickets 38.97 average. 87.0 strike rate.  You don't see that drop in performance of Ashwin without Jaddu. 49 tests 205 wickets 25.16 avge 51.5 strike rate.  Jaddu is not a solo bowler like Ashwin. He needs people around him create a bit of pressure and he can eke out a few wickets. 

[putrevus]

I can understand Ashwin's point of view. That is why Ashwin should not become captain. He is still thinking that coach and captain were against him when he was not doing his job. 

 

If he was injured full sympathies to him but once you suit up for team you are assumed be just fine physically.Nobody forced him to play thru injuries.His batting declined that is why Jadeja overtook him as an allrounder.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I can understand Ashwin's point of view. That is why Ashwin should not become captain. He is still thinking that coach and captain were against him when he was not doing his job. 

 

If he was injured full sympathies to him but once you suit up for team you are assumed be just fine physically.Nobody forced him to play thru injuries.His batting declined that is why Jadeja overtook him as an allrounder.

 

 

 

Jaddu started getting better as a batsman in 2018. That is when for the first time in his career attained a ranking below 50 despite having 3 triple centuries in domestic.  Ashwin was not a specialist batsman in domestic level. He may have started opening the innings. But he plays down the order even for his state. No comparison there.  His batting ranking was better than Jadeja's until 2018 despite that. That is a testimony to how Jadeja underachieved in Tests as a batsman until 2018 rather than how good Ashwin was. He has been doing well since then. Credit to him. So well that he could even sneak back into LOI set up. But his injuries in recent times will make him choose one format over the other.  He might eventually resign himself to playing LOI formats to prolong his IPL career.

[putrevus]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

Jaddu started getting better as a batsman in 2018. That is when for the first time in his career attained a ranking below 50 despite having 3 triple centuries in domestic.  Ashwin was not a specialist batsman in domestic level. He may have started opening the innings. But he plays down the order even for his state. No comparison there.  His batting ranking was better than Jadeja's until 2018 despite that. That is a testimony to how Jadeja underachieved in Tests as a batsman until 2018 rather than how good Ashwin was. He has been doing well since then. Credit to him. So well that he could even sneak back into LOI set up. But his injuries in recent times will make him choose one format over the other.  He might eventually resign himself to playing LOI formats to prolong his IPL career.

See Ashwin had full chance to cement himself as lead spinner in 2013 when he had 448 runs to defend but he could not do the job for various reasons.Jadeja played next test and took 6 wickets but all he did was hold one end up nothing much but still took 6 wickets.We can talk about many tests where he fell short

 

The point being Ashwin should not have any gripe of missing overseas tests.He will get another chance this series to showcase his skills.

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, R!TTER said:

He should've said this after his retirement! These words will only hurt India's chances in SA, he's just playing to (his) gallery when there's overwhelming support against Brat. It's also undeniably true that he did much worse in 2018 leg of away tours, except Oz, when we needed much more from him.

 

All captains have been toxic to someone or the other. I remember Dhoni throwing Umesh Yadav under bus every time he failed.  Did you read the full interview on how serious the injury he picked up in 2018?  Looks serious. I think we wasted so much time on this pointless Jaddu vs Ash while ignoring a lot other things he talked about. Let me put a stop to it. 

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

All captains have been toxic to someone or the other. I remember Dhoni throwing Umesh Yadav under bus every time he failed.  Did you read the full interview on how serious the injury he picked up in 2018?  Looks serious. I think we wasted so much time on this pointless Jaddu vs Ash while ignoring a lot other things he talked about. Let me put a stop to it. 

What was the point of him bringing his injuries? If he was injured , he should have just taken time off to get fit.When was Ashwin thrown under the bus.Shastri saying Kuldeep was the main overseas spinner  is not throwing him under the bus.

[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

See Ashwin had full chance to cement himself as lead spinner in 2013 when he had 448 runs to defend but he could not do the job for various reasons.Jadeja played next test and took 6 wickets but all he did was hold one end up nothing much but still took 6 wickets.We can talk about many tests where he fell short

 

The point being Ashwin should not have any gripe of missing overseas tests.He will get another chance this series to showcase his skills.

 

448 to defend on a wicket that flattened out? Well SA did reach 500 in the test where Jaddu took 6fer. Robin pieterse took 4fer bowling more overs than Steyn, Philander, Morkel. First test was not exactly a spinners paradise. In the first innings Ashwin bowled just 6 overs. India rolled them over with just 3 seamers.  If Jaddu had taken 6 for 65 then we are talking. Bowled 58 overs to get 6 for 132. Sure great average there. Didn't exactly stop us from losing the test.

[Vijy]

Both Jaddu and Ashwin are: (a) very good bowlers, and (b) very good ARs. Are they perfect? Of course not... we should be glad that we have both of them to call upon. Most teams would be dying for just one of them. I do think that they could have been handled better, but mistakes happen.

 

I hope the thread doesn't devolve purely into Ash vs Jaddu

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What was the point of him bringing his injuries? If he was injured , he should have just taken time off to get fit.When was Ashwin thrown under the bus.Shastri saying Kuldeep was the main overseas spinner  is not throwing him under the bus.

 

He pretty much left out many direct quotes in that. Not talking about. His interview was more about general lack of support. 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Vijy said:

Both Jaddu and Ashwin are: (a) very good bowlers, and (b) very good ARs. Are they perfect? Of course not... we should be glad that we have both of them to call upon. Most teams would be dying for just one of them. I do think that they could have been handled better, but mistakes happen.

 

I hope the thread doesn't devolve purely into Ash vs Jaddu

 

THere is this one hater that started this. Couple of them joined the bandwagon. Interview was more about a lot of other things.

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

448 to defend on a wicket that flattened out? Well SA did reach 500 in the test where Jaddu took 6fer. Robin pieterse took 4fer bowling more overs than Steyn, Philander, Morkel. First test was not exactly a spinners paradise. In the first innings Ashwin bowled just 6 overs. India rolled them over with just 3 seamers.  If Jaddu had taken 6 for 65 then we are talking. Bowled 58 overs to get 6 for 132. Sure great average there. Didn't exactly stop us from losing the test.

So that is the point, Ashwin if the pitch is flat will not win you matches even if he has 450 runs to defend.So they tried Jadeja for next test. Jadeja has kept on improving his batting, nobody asked Ashwin not improve his batting.I don't understand what gripe Ashwin can have against captain or coach.

Edited December 22, 2021 by putrevus

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He pretty much left out many direct quotes in that. Not talking about. His interview was more about general lack of support. 

General lack of support from who? Coach and captain have other things to worry , if he is injured and he should get proper support from BCCI, it is not the job of either coach or captain to support him in the middle of the series.

Edited December 22, 2021 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

So that is point, Ashwin if the pitch is flat will not win you matches even if he has 450 runs to defend.So they tried Jadeja for next test. Jadeja has kept on improving his batting, nobody asked Ashwin not improve his batting.I don't understand what gripe Ashwin can have against captain or coach.

 

There are times you give credit to the batsman. Not put down bowlers. Bit like how Warne was never criticized for Laxman/Dravid partnership. This was that sort of  a partnership. Faf/ABDV. An epic partnership. Jaddu did have to bowl very long spells with not many wickets in NZ. Infact he was going at 4.61. We lost that Test. 

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

General lack of support from who? Coach and captain have other things to worry , if he is injured and he should get proper support from BCCI, it is not the job of either coach or captain to support him in the middle of the series.

 

That is their job. Unless you are Ravi shastri you won't say this lol

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, putrevus said:

General lack of support from who? Coach and captain have other things to worry , if he is injured and he should get proper support from BCCI, it is not the job of either coach or captain to support him in the middle of the series.

 

What things to worry? lol So when Bumrah gets injured he should be left on his own? What kind of man management is that?

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

There are times you give credit to the batsman. Not put down bowlers. Bit like how Warne was never criticized for Laxman/Dravid partnership. This was that sort of  a partnership. Faf/ABDV. An epic partnership. Jaddu did have to bowl very long spells with not many wickets in NZ. Infact he was going at 4.61. We lost that Test. 

Yes we need to give batsmen credit but he also needs to understand why Jadeja was being preferred. Don't bring Warne into this discussion, Warne gets the benefit of doubt because he won other matches like Kolkatta.Ashwin never won anything like that in his career away from home.