Ravindra Jadeja vs Kapil Dev in Tests

[Majestic]

5 hours ago, Vijy said:

that's very good, indeed like a batter (which Imran was in the last stages of his career). but still much lower than 71.

When you consider that Kapil barely scored 30 runs per innings, that's pretty good.

[Muloghonto]

25 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Botham - 100/14 = 7.14

Kapil - 134/8=16.75

 

That's match per century. Proves that Botham is twice the batsman Kapil ever was. Performance vs one team don't mean much and that too an average of 30 lol.

No, it proves that Botham was a lot more inconsistent than Kapil. Thats the only way you can score twice as many centuries and still average the same. Performance against the best team is the decisive thing for similar stat players. Fact is, against the best of the best, Kapil was a far superior batsman and bowler than Botham, who was much more of the 'i beat up kids younger than me but get my ass kicked by those in my league' kinda cricketer. 

 

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

No, it proves that Botham was a lot more inconsistent than Kapil. Thats the only way you can score twice as many centuries and still average the same. Performance against the best team is the decisive thing for similar stat players. Fact is, against the best of the best, Kapil was a far superior batsman and bowler than Botham, who was much more of the 'i beat up kids younger than me but get my ass kicked by those in my league' kinda cricketer. 

 

No, the average isn't the same and that's despite Botham having lesser not outs than Kapil.

 

Botham > Kapil as batter. No second thoughts there.

 

Question should be between Imran and Kapil.

 

Overall, Imran surpassed Kapil as batsman but as all rounders for most part of their career when bowling, Kapil was superior batsman to Imran although far inferior bowler(21 vs 29).

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

No, the average isn't the same and that's despite Botham having lesser not outs than Kapil.

they are literally two points apart. that is by definition, similar. 

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Botham > Kapil as batter. No second thoughts there.

No. Botham was inferior to kapil by a huge margin against the best bowling attack of their time. That makes him an inferior batsman. You cant be a better batsman than me if you are massively inferior to me against high quality bowling. 

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Question should be between Imran and Kapil.

 

Overall, Imran surpassed Kapil as batsman but as all rounders for most part of their career when bowling, Kapil was superior batsman to Imran although far inferior bowler(21 vs 29).

Actually for most of their careers they were comparable bowler. The difference only exists due to Kapil's knee injury post 1983 

[Majestic]

21 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

they are literally two points apart. that is by definition, similar. 

No. Botham was inferior to kapil by a huge margin against the best bowling attack of their time. That makes him an inferior batsman. You cant be a better batsman than me if you are massively inferior to me against high quality bowling. 

Actually for most of their careers they were comparable bowler. The difference only exists due to Kapil's knee injury post 1983 

No. Imran also has lot of not outs, that doesn't make him better batsman than Botham and Kapil. Jadeja has lot of not outs, he is not a better or same level as batsman as Stokes.

 

Again, the best team theory is illogical because Kapil averages only 30 vs them and none of those knocks were match/series defining ones like Botham's Headingley knock at Ashes.

 

Kapil's average was always lower than Imran although Kapil did managed to play a lot of tests in first 6 years only. Kapil's average never went above 27.

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

No. Imran also has lot of not outs, that doesn't make him better batsman than Botham and Kapil. Jadeja has lot of not outs, he is not a better or same level as batsman as Stokes.

Both jadeja and Imran are far better batsmen than Botham or Stokes. Especially botham, due to the fact that botham was a zero against good teams. 

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

 

Again, the best team theory is illogical because Kapil averages only 30 vs them and none of those knocks were match/series defining ones like Botham's Headingley knock at Ashes.

 

Kapil's average was always lower than Imran although Kapil did managed to play a lot of tests in first 6 years only. Kapil's average never went above 27.

The best team theory is logical. Only the best of the best can perform against the best of the best, so if you cant perform against the best of the best, you arent as good as those who can. 

Kapil's 30+ average against the windies is a helluva lot better than the barely 20 average of Botham against them. 

Your position is as assinine as saying that a guy who scores 500 runs vs Steyn-Morkel-Philander is a lesser player than the guy who scores 1000 runs vs bangladesh because the dude with good scores vs bangladesh has a higher overall average. 

 

[Majestic]

Among the all rounders quartet, the order is :-

 

Batting - Botham> Kapil > Imran > Hadlee

Bowling - Hadlee> Imran > Kapil = Botham

 

Kapil can get a leeway for bowling because he carried the bowling attack on his own and played every game possible so it affects the workload.

 

But he underachieved massively with bat. One cannot rate him for that once in a while Afridi-esque unimaginative knocks, none of those changed the outcome of the test series/ match so much so that it is memorable. For a weak team like India, he should have shown more maturity with bat rather than going the Afridi-esque way.

 

Now coming to Jadeja, he would have been a bigger utility than Kapil to Indian test team in 80s because he would have been consistent.

 

 

 

[Jaydev_Unadkat]

Kapil paaji will wipe his kitchen floor with tukka players like Jadeja. Jadeja is utterly useless on anything other than a turner and his selfish timid nature is another turn off

 

Just coz you have access to free internet doesnt mean you can write crap and insult one of the GOATS of cricket.

[Kron]

9 hours ago, Jaydev_Unadkat said:

Kapil paaji will wipe his kitchen floor with tukka players like Jadeja. Jadeja is utterly useless on anything other than a turner and his selfish timid nature is another turn off

 

Just coz you have access to free internet doesnt mean you can write crap and insult one of the GOATS of cricket.

i agree with this but jadeja also is a quality player. but yes kapil is aeons ahead. 

kapil had no support at all. 

[putrevus]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:19 PM, Majestic said:

Kapil was mediocre batsman assuming that standards are such that Botham batting is considered mediocre too. Personally, neither are mediocre batters.

 

Imran averaged 72 in his last 15 tests with bat. Kapil was better batsman than Imran but I won't say by much. 

Who cares what Imran avg 72 for last 15 tests. How many runs he scored then.He was pusing and prodding for most innings aided by not out..Imran had luxury of just becoming batsman , he was not even required to bowl that many overs.

 

Kapil dev never had that luxury.Imran Khan cannot tie Kapil dev shoe laces as far as batting is concerned. They batted at number 6 or 7. Impact knock are more important and  not useless not out.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24 by putrevus

[Majestic]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Who cares what Imran avg 72 for last 15 tests. How many runs he scored then.He was pusing and prodding for most innings aided by not out..Imran had luxury of just becoming batsman , he was not even required to bowl that many overs.

 

Kapil dev never had that luxury.Imran Khan cannot tie Kapil dev shoe laces as far as batting is concerned. They batted at number 6 or 7. Impact knock are more important and useless not out.

 

 

 

 

72 vs 30 lol, it's like comparing Steve Smith to Shahid Afridi haha 

 

Kapil's impact knocks are overrated. None of them helped his team win the game. 

Edited February 24 by Majestic

[singhvivek141]

Just now, Majestic said:

72 vs 30 lol, it's like comparing Steve Smith to Shreyas Iyer haha 

 

Kapil's impact knocks are overrated. None of them helped his team win the game. 

Different format..but wasn't Kapil was biggest reason for 1983 WC win.

Was a performer with both bat and ball.

That 172* is an inns which Imran can't even play with 30 meter boundaries against an U14 bowling attack.

[singhvivek141]

Kapil for me will always be the greatest allrounder ever from India.

 

Stats aside he was from that era when BCCi was severely unprofessional, poor and had no love for the fast bowlers. While there were likes of Salgaonkar, Mohammad Nissar & Amar Singh..the true revolution of fast bowling was brought by Kapil Dev.

 

Nowadays, BCCI has a lot better support facilities for the players, had Kapil not won the ODI WC, this nation might not have found their love for the game of cricket. 

[Majestic]

@Vijy@putrevus @Muloghonto

 

Kapil Dev - 5284/131 = 40.33

Imran Khan - 3807/88 = 43.26

Botham - 5200/102 = 51

Vettori - 4531/113 = 40.10

 

Let's throw the not outs of the equation. Let's compare now by runs per match.

 

Guess what, Kapil Dev is wayy wayy behind Botham and also behind Imran. He is a marginally better than Vettori, haha the tailender Vettori for first half 

 

 

[Majestic]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Different format

That's end of discussion right there. Alastair Cook also cannot play even in his boundary the way Afridi smashed 37 ball 100.

Edited February 24 by Majestic

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, Majestic said:

72 vs 30 lol, it's like comparing Steve Smith to Shreyas Iyer haha 

 

Kapil's impact knocks are overrated. None of them helped his team win the game. 

One query, how much Imran averaged in Pakistan with bat & ball ?

Pakistan was notorious in that era for cheating umpires, who would not give LBW to their own players at any cost..while the opposition batters can simply not afford to miss the ball, as they will be given LBW irrespective of where the ball lands.

 

With such cheating, you can trim down the batting average by half (atleast) and increase the bowling average by twice .that would paint the real picture.

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

That's end of discussion right there. Alastair Cook also cannot play even in his boundary the way Afridi smashed 37 ball 100.

Yeah..but none of Cook or Afretard won any WC..right ?

Kapil won the worldcup at a tender age of 24.

[Majestic]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

One query, how much Imran averaged in Pakistan with bat & ball ?

Pakistan was notorious in that era for cheating umpires, who would not give LBW to their own players at any cost..while the opposition batters can simply not afford to miss the ball, as they will be given LBW irrespective of where the ball lands.

 

With such cheating, you can trim down the batting average by half (atleast) and increase the bowling average by twice .that would paint the real picture.

Batting averages in away and neutral venues :-

 

Imran - 33

Botham - 31

Kapil - 26

Hadlee - 25

 

Now what you make of this?

 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;orderby=batting_average;qualmin2=100;qualval2=wickets;template=results;type=allround

[Majestic]

5 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Yeah..but none of Cook or Afretard won any WC..right ?

Kapil won the worldcup at a tender age of 24.

 

All this talk about WC performance as if Imran did nothing with the bat, what he has which others don't is the performance in Finals.

 

Imran won the WC Final with a standout batting performance of 72 where the other great Pakistani batsman, Miandad played supporting fiddle to him. 

Edited February 24 by Majestic

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

72 vs 30 lol, it's like comparing Steve Smith to Shahid Afridi haha 

 

Kapil's impact knocks are overrated. None of them helped his team win the game. 

I think you are viting too much padosi forums,

 

Where did you get 72 and 30. 

 

how is his 100 against Australia in tied test overrated. how is 100 against WI which led to India winning against Wi overrated.

 

Kapil dev, always had knack of scoring runs when his team needed, even his last 100 was scored from 31/6 that too in SA,.

 

He gave his team a 190 odd  total to defend. which was more than what Botham gave England in 1981 Headingley.

 

There was no Bob Willis to win the match for India.That is why that knock gets lost.

 

In odis the gap between kapil and all other allorunder including Botham becomes very big.

 

He won world cup from 17/5.Imran Khan in his wildest dream could not match that knock.He had the ability to score 50 or 30 to win like he did WCC semifinals when India was over and out.

 

He could handle fierce Patrick Pa

 

As Allrounders

 

In tests Botham>Kapil large gap Imran >Hadlee

 

Odis

 

Kapil was better than all other three by wide margin.