Umran needs to be played in all games!

[Vijy]

13 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

Bowlers dont decline suddenly...

Bad form and loss of rhythm are a huge factor, especially for those who are not astute students of their trade and dont practice their skills through procesd based mechanisms and drills.

The english, ozzies n saffers r more tuned with their actions and with what works best for them. Just check the drills mark wood goes through before every game to make sure his technique is in order.  Mitch johnson and lee would do the same. 

The guys in the subcontinent are not as analytical, and Siraj also seems to be lacking in this front, but by no means has he declined physically. 

Mitch was very inconsistent though, and his action did evolve over the years, albeit not conspicuously.

 

as for decline, both bowlers and batters can experience quite a sharp decline - it need not always be a slow & gradual descent.

[Mesky99]

On 7/11/2022 at 9:03 AM, Frustrated said:

5"8 is still a very low height.  I don't remember any pace bowlers in Indian history causing trouble with this height.  Shardul is 5"8. Hence sucks.   Bumrah and Shami both are 5"10.

One of India's greatest ODI pacer agarkar was around that height, sharduls lack of ability in terms of consistency in line his is issue plus since last year when India had a break after Ipl he turned overweight and has slowed in pace, watching some highlights of sl Vs India in 2017, shardul was bowling 137-142kph consistently, in the gabba test he looked a proper pacer and was even hurrying the Aussie batsmen a bit. 

 

[Vijy]

Just now, Mesky99 said:

One of India's greatest ODI pacer agarkar was around that height, sharduls lack of ability in terms of consistency in line his is issue plus since last year when India had a break after Ipl he turned overweight and has slowed in pace, watching some highlights of sl Vs India in 2017, shardul was bowling 137-142kph consistently, in the gabba test he looked a proper pacer and was even hurrying the Aussie batsmen a bit. 

 

Sir Aggy may be one of Ind's greatest ODI pacers, but that's more down to the utter paucity of good pace bowlers until recent times.

 

Agree with you regd shardul. he is down on pace, on rhythm, and on fitness. all three are correlated to an extent

[Mesky99]

13 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

Nope bro...Naseem is naturally quite muscular. You probably saw him after covid when he shed weight and lost pace as a result. But he is a typical mesomorph.

It is Dhani who is short on muscle. Naseem on the oz tour 2020 and that year's PSL was really beefed up for his age. Since then he hasn't gained the same mass. Probably someone has advised him against it. 

He was really beefed up for his age because that's his fake age, hell he is 3/4 years older than his stated age.

[Frustrated]

3 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

One of India's greatest ODI pacer agarkar was around that height, sharduls lack of ability in terms of consistency in line his is issue plus since last year when India had a break after Ipl he turned overweight and has slowed in pace, watching some highlights of sl Vs India in 2017, shardul was bowling 137-142kph consistently, in the gabba test he looked a proper pacer and was even hurrying the Aussie batsmen a bit. 

 

Nah. Agarkar was not great in odi.  Nor in test.  He was very inconsistent. Often too expensive.  Got dropped too often.    Agree with rest of your post.   

[Mesky99]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

Sir Aggy may be one of Ind's greatest ODI pacers, but that's more down to the utter paucity of good pace bowlers until recent times.

 

Agree with you regd shardul. he is down on pace, on rhythm, and on fitness. all three are correlated to an extent

Agarkar had wicket taking ability, he lead the attack even when Irfan, sreesanth, Zak, rp Singh and co were around, so I guess our pace bowling was decent back then, deceptive pace and late movement were his strengths, even had a nippy bouncer, should be a case study on how he went onto pick newly 300 odi wickets

[Mesky99]

10 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Nah. Agarkar was not great in odi.  Nor in test.  He was very inconsistent. Often too expensive.  Got dropped too often.    Agree with rest of your post.   

Got dropped because the selectors would mix formats, from 2002-07 he was India's best odi pacer by far.

[Mesky99]

Prasidh does not quite look at his best in terms of rhythm but good to see him hitting hard lengths and mixing it up.

[Vijy]

29 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Agarkar had wicket taking ability, he lead the attack even when Irfan, sreesanth, Zak, rp Singh and co were around, so I guess our pace bowling was decent back then, deceptive pace and late movement were his strengths, even had a nippy bouncer, should be a case study on how he went onto pick newly 300 odi wickets

of the ones you named, Zaheer is better than Aggy; I don't rate the others much as pace bowlers, which is why I wrote the earlier statement. SR is only one half of the equation. Aggy had an extremely ER for that period.

[Mesky99]

16 minutes ago, Vijy said:

of the ones you named, Zaheer is better than Aggy; I don't rate the others much as pace bowlers, which is why I wrote the earlier statement. SR is only one half of the equation. Aggy had an extremely ER for that period.

Irfan was one of the best new ball bowlers around then, sreesanth after 50 odi games had good numbers, he was brilliant agiasnt Pakistan in 2006 and England, his downfall began at home in 2008. 

[Vijy]

24 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Irfan was one of the best new ball bowlers around then, sreesanth after 50 odi games had good numbers, he was brilliant agiasnt Pakistan in 2006 and England, his downfall began at home in 2008. 

all slim pickings when we compare them with other countries. someone like bracken, who played in the same era roughly, was better than all of them

[Need4Speed]

On 7/11/2022 at 3:52 AM, Jay said:

Yea that's true. Yes 5'8 is still short for fast bowling. 

Steyn is 5'10

Marshall 5'9 5'10

Bumrah 5'10

 

That 2 inched makes a huge difference for some reason.  

 

May be an exception is Malinga..but that guy had an excellent control with that awkward release and action..

I would take extra height any day..that makes many SENA countries bowlers more lethal as compared to Indians..

with 150 mph..Umran at 5-10\6ft wud be a totally different proposition to face

 

[Need4Speed]

On 7/11/2022 at 1:51 AM, express bowling said:

Umran does not have a stock ball yet.

 

I would like him to develop a top of off stump directed stock delivery first .... and then play for India.

 

 

 

 

True..once he has that..you will see how it drastically changes his rythm,pace,strike rate and economy rate..he can become great asset for us as things will start falling in place for him..

[Axl100mph]

8 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

He was really beefed up for his age because that's his fake age, hell he is 3/4 years older than his stated age.

Ok

[Axl100mph]

8 hours ago, Vijy said:

Mitch was very inconsistent though, and his action did evolve over the years, albeit not conspicuously.

 

as for decline, both bowlers and batters can experience quite a sharp decline - it need not always be a slow & gradual descent.

But his pace was consistent.  I was talking about his resurgence though. Post 2013 he kept a very close tab on his drill work to make sure his mechanics were spot on. This is the kind of work many subcontinental fast bowlers dont do unless they are properly coached  through a fast bowling academy. You can expect this from bhuvi, tyagi because they are all academy bred bowlers with well alligned actions who have the correct attractors. 

 

Siraj however seems very self taught and is not textbook, so he will have to figure out his own way to get back into gear  

[rkt.india]

On 7/10/2022 at 9:03 PM, the don said:

Naseems first over in international cricket iin Australia itself was quicker than anything umran has bowled in international cricket so far. Remember, Naseem is yet to play a white ball game for Pakistan. Naseem is the most improved pacer in Pak right now with his lines and movement, was effortlessly clocking around 148kph in national t20.  In terns of skills he is just behind Shaheen atm.

You are holding on to 148 of Naseem forgetting Umran's consistent 150+ overs in IPL.

[rkt.india]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:27 PM, Vijy said:

I suspect siraj may be older than his reported age (like shambi), which may partly explain his decline.

When did Siraj decline? 

[Vijy]

On 7/13/2022 at 7:15 PM, rkt.india said:

When did Siraj decline? 

did poorly in IPL. didn't look convincing in this test. the decline seems to have started. will be happy if he turns it around

[zen]

What a missed opportunity  

[jf1gp_1]

In the BD series, he showed brilliance and inexperience. We need to stick with him.