Dispelling the last great Pakistani myth: that they have historically been a better team than India

[rangeelaraja]

 

For the last 20 + years - we have been a consistently stronger than Pak.

 

For the last 10+ years W/L ratio overall

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Wonhttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	Lost	Tied	Draw	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
India	2011-2023	596	366	182	9	24	15	2.010	36.36	4.65	686	759	36	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
England	2011-2023	551	280	219	6	29	17	1.278	32.59	4.36	681	710	58	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Australia	2011-2023	509	277	193	3	23	13	1.435	33.85	4.46	615	662	47	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Pakistan	2011-2023	520	274	212	5	17	12	1.292	31.57	4.35	603	628	49	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
South Africa	2011-2023	456	251	174	2	17	12	1.442	33.22	4.50	536	637	73	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
New Zealand	2011-2023	480	247	185	9	22	17	1.335	32.60	4.57	554	715	45	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Sri Lanka	2011-2023	553	225	280	6	25	17	0.803	28.78	4.28	653	730	43	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
West Indies	2011-2023	491	178	269	7	20	17	0.661	26.95	4.21	579	648	45	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Bangladesh	2011-2023	401	161	217	0	12	11	0.741	27.53	4.49	462	638	43	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Afghanistan	2011-2023	260	140	112	2	0	5	1.250	25.64	5.35	266	545	58	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Ireland	2011-2023	282	107	155	4	0	16	0.690	24.93	5.50	280	492	38

 

 

 

Had we played Pak regularly for the last 10 years, Pak would have been beaten dead.

 

Pakistan is a minnow+ team and the difference with India will only widen as our cricketing structures and talent is far far superior to theirs

 

In SENA + India + Pakistan inter-contests since 2010 ---Pak is a minnow as the below statistic shows.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmax2=31+Dec+2023;spanmin2=01+Jan+2010;spanval2=span;team=1;team=2;team=3;team=5;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

 

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	Draw	NR	W/Lhttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
India	2010-2023	365	188	145	6	17	9	1.296	33.75	4.33	446	759	36	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Australia	2010-2023	399	205	163	2	20	9	1.257	33.64	4.33	499	662	47	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
England	2010-2023	414	203	173	5	23	10	1.173	31.84	4.24	522	710	58	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
South Africa	2010-2023	317	150	143	0	16	8	1.048	32.04	4.27	384	637	79	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
New Zealand	2010-2023	310	113	161	7	20	9	0.701	29.00	4.37	368	690	45	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Pakistan	2010-2023	311	108	182	2	12	7	0.593	27.92	4.23	370	579	49

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by rangeelaraja

[rish]

I believe that 18-19 wins for Pak came in Sharjah during 80s.

 

I remember India dutifully showing up on Friday and getting beaten. 

Pak also had "bottle openers" and that great neutral umpire Shakoor Rana whose fingers started pointing upward as soon as the ball as much as touched an Indian batsman's body.

 

 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

6 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

For the last 20 + years - we have been a consistently stronger than Pak.

 

For the last 10+ years W/L ratio overall

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Wonhttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	Lost	Tied	Draw	NR	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
India	2011-2023	596	366	182	9	24	15	2.010	36.36	4.65	686	759	36	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
England	2011-2023	551	280	219	6	29	17	1.278	32.59	4.36	681	710	58	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Australia	2011-2023	509	277	193	3	23	13	1.435	33.85	4.46	615	662	47	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Pakistan	2011-2023	520	274	212	5	17	12	1.292	31.57	4.35	603	628	49	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
South Africa	2011-2023	456	251	174	2	17	12	1.442	33.22	4.50	536	637	73	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
New Zealand	2011-2023	480	247	185	9	22	17	1.335	32.60	4.57	554	715	45	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Sri Lanka	2011-2023	553	225	280	6	25	17	0.803	28.78	4.28	653	730	43	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
West Indies	2011-2023	491	178	269	7	20	17	0.661	26.95	4.21	579	648	45	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Bangladesh	2011-2023	401	161	217	0	12	11	0.741	27.53	4.49	462	638	43	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Afghanistan	2011-2023	260	140	112	2	0	5	1.250	25.64	5.35	266	545	58	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Ireland	2011-2023	282	107	155	4	0	16	0.690	24.93	5.50	280	492	38

 

 

 

Had we played Pak regularly for the last 10 years, Pak would have been beaten dead.

 

Pakistan is a minnow+ team and the difference with India will only widen as our cricketing structures and talent is far far superior to theirs

 

In SENA + India + Pakistan inter-contests since 2010 ---Pak is a minnow as the below statistic shows.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmax2=31+Dec+2023;spanmin2=01+Jan+2010;spanval2=span;team=1;team=2;team=3;team=5;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

 

 

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	Draw	NR	W/Lhttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
India	2010-2023	365	188	145	6	17	9	1.296	33.75	4.33	446	759	36	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Australia	2010-2023	399	205	163	2	20	9	1.257	33.64	4.33	499	662	47	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
England	2010-2023	414	203	173	5	23	10	1.173	31.84	4.24	522	710	58	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
South Africa	2010-2023	317	150	143	0	16	8	1.048	32.04	4.27	384	637	79	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
New Zealand	2010-2023	310	113	161	7	20	9	0.701	29.00	4.37	368	690	45	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Pakistan	2010-2023	311	108	182	2	12	7	0.593	27.92	4.23	370	579	49

 

 

I’ve heard this a lot.

1. India too avoided Pakistan when they were at their best. 
2. matches are won on the ground and on the day. You cannot assume. The last ODI series “aane do” series in 2012 India were favorites but lost the series anyway.  Similarly, India went as underdogs in 1992, 1996, and 1999 WC matches against Pak but still beat them. So you cannot assume outcomes. You have to beat the opponent on the ground for it to count. 
3. You may have been right from 2013-2019, Pak was middling. But right now, there is not that much of a difference when the whole Pak team is fit and in form, although on current from, India is better. 

[rangeelaraja]

2 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

I’ve heard this a lot.

1. India too avoided Pakistan when they were at their best. 
2. matches are won on the ground and on the day. You cannot assume. The last ODI series “aane do” series in 2012 India were favorites but lost the series anyway.  Similarly, India went as underdogs in 1992, 1996, and 1999 WC matches against Pak but still beat them. So you cannot assume outcomes. You have to beat the opponent on the ground for it to count. 
3. You may have been right from 2013-2019, Pak was middling. But right now, there is not that much of a difference when the whole Pak team is fit and in form, although on current from, India is better. 

 

 

I cannot help it if you brain can only digest the stupidity you are fed.

 

India only avoided Sharjah in the 90s because of the match fixing mafia and underworld there.

 

India is also avoiding Pakistan like plague now ( inspite being leagues and leagues ahead of the Pak team)

 

 - because of Pak’s role as a terror sponsoring country that has almost perpetually been under FATF list.  A country that claimed to fight war on terror while hiding OBL and his ilk.  We don't want a terror sponsoring  country that has caused death of 1000s of Indians to benefit financially by playing India in a bilateral series.

 

India's avoiding Pakistan is based on principals, not how good or bad the team is.

 

You are a third rate team compared to India over the last 10-15 years and stats prove it comprehensively.

 

India has the best W/L ratio by far  in any form of the game compared to other teams over the last 10-15 years.

 

Pak is not even in the top 5 -which are ( India, Aus, Eng, RSA, NZ )

 

India has won 4 back to back test series against Australia -which includes winning 2 back to back test series in Australia.

 

When was the Pak even won a test match in Australia ?

 

Your team is so third grade that I remember Ian chappell once saying that Pak is a waste of time and should not even be invited to Australia.

 

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1288343/ian-chappell-tells-pakistan-improve-cricket-stay-home

 

The sooner you realize where you truly and honestly stand vs. India in cricket or all walks of life- the better it would be.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by rangeelaraja

[Sharjah-Harjah]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

I cannot help it if you brain can only digest the stupidity you are fed.

 

India only avoided Sharjah in the 90s because of the match fixing mafia and underworld there.

 

India is also avoiding Pakistan like plague now ( inspite being leagues and leagues ahead of the Pak team)

 

 - because of Pak’s role as a terror sponsoring country that has almost perpetually been under FATF list.  A country that claimed to fight war on terror while hiding OBL and his ilk.  We don't want a terror sponsoring  country that has caused death of 1000s of Indians to benefit financially by playing India in a bilateral series.

 

India's avoiding Pakistan is based on principals, not how good or bad the team is.

 

You are a third rate team compared to India over the last 10-15 years and stats prove it comprehensively.

 

India has the best W/L ratio by far  in any form of the game compared to other teams over the last 10-15 years.

 

Pak is not even in the top 5 -which are ( India, Aus, Eng, RSA, NZ )

 

India has won 4 back to back test series against Australia -which includes winning 2 back to back test series in Australia.

 

When was the Pak even won a test match in Australia ?

 

Your team is so third grade that I remember Ian chappell once saying that Pak is a waste of time and should not even be invited to Australia.

 

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1288343/ian-chappell-tells-pakistan-improve-cricket-stay-home

 

The sooner you realize where you truly and honestly stand vs. India in cricket or all walks of life- the better it would be.

 

 

 

 

This doesn’t warrant a response. Learn to write respectfully. 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

Are there normal posters on here who want to talk cricket without getting into hate and political agendas 

[rangeelaraja]

15 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Are there normal posters on here who want to talk cricket without getting into hate and political agendas 

 

 

Thats the problem with your lot. 

 

You see political agendas in inconvenient facts and try to create facts out of your own blatant agendas.

 

Your former PM's and army chiefs have admitted that Pak abetted, supported and nurtured terror against India.

 

Your own former PM admitted to  being involved in Mumbai 26/11. 

 

Why should any country play bilateral sport with such a country ?

 

 

 

[Dil Dil India]

4 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

I’ve heard this a lot.

1. India too avoided Pakistan when they were at their best. 
2. matches are won on the ground and on the day. You cannot assume. The last ODI series “aane do” series in 2012 India were favorites but lost the series anyway.  Similarly, India went as underdogs in 1992, 1996, and 1999 WC matches against Pak but still beat them. So you cannot assume outcomes. You have to beat the opponent on the ground for it to count. 
3. You may have been right from 2013-2019, Pak was middling. But right now, there is not that much of a difference when the whole Pak team is fit and in form, although on current from, India is better.

The 2012 series was an aberration because we had a set of has beens close tor retirement and the conditions were overwhelmingly toss dependent. The fact is apart from fluky t20, over a series Pak are comfortably worse than India in tests and ODIs. 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

2 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

The 2012 series was an aberration because we had a set of has beens close tor retirement and the conditions were overwhelmingly toss dependent. The fact is apart from fluky t20, over a series Pak are comfortably worse than India in tests and ODIs. 

I could say the same about 2004-2006 series. Pakistan had major retirements of Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, and Saeed Anwar after the 2003 WC debacle. 

I think India will beat Pakistan in tests right now. ODIs could be competitive depending on form and fitness of Pakistan team. Pakistan ODI team is not as bad as what they’ve shown. A lot of key players misfiring and out of form 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Sharjah-Harjah

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Are there normal posters on here who want to talk cricket without getting into hate and political agendas 

Why did Bekar Younis talked about religion & Namaz, when the discussion was on cricket ?

[bsriharsha]

Flukes like the CT win aside , the gulf in class between India & Pakistan over the last 15 or so years is clearly visible. 

 

India have better batsmen , better fast bowlers , better spinners and better fielders. 

 

I can name about 20 people not playing in the Indian squad right now who would get in to the Pakistani team ahead of probably 7-8 of the regular XI

[Throwaib_Chuckter]

14 hours ago, NameGoesHere said:

 

 

I literally spat out my coffee 

 

 

Ditto.
@Dil Dil India you are on the hook to get @NameGoesHere a coffee and a keyboard for me please.

Chuckte Raho

TC

Edited November 4, 2023 by Throwaib_Chuckter

[jf1gp_1]

Historically H2H they have better record in test and ODI. Given we only play them once every few year ODI record isnt changing anytime soon given we havent played a test against them in over a decade that record will always stay with Pakistan. Sure once can slice or dissect data but bottom line h2h they are ahead, lets not argue about it, accept it and move on. 

 

Things however have changed this century. Past 20yrs we have been a better team by a distance. T20 a format in which Pakistan is supposed to excel and our weakest format, if not wrong we have only lost that 1 WC match. This is something Pakistani need to accept and move on. 

[AKane]

Never mind Pakistan but the Indian establishment was hostile to pace bowlers before the advent of Kapil Dev.

 

Kapil himself happened due to India being humiliated at Kingston by Holding and Daniel in 1976, the series defeat to Aus B team in 1977 and the thrashing the spinners took against Pak in the series in 1978.

 

I will give one example of a pace bowler with great stats in domestics who did not get even a whiff of playing for India.

 

Abdul Ismail who played for Bombay - 18.04 average with 13 5 wicket hauls and 3 10 wickets in match is not bad at all. He played great from 1969 till 1974/75 after which he lost pace and prolly interest.

FORMAT	Mat	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	4w	5w	10w
FC	75	-	4402	244	7/26	-	18.04	-	-	-	13	3

[deathmonger]

53 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

I could say the same about 2004-2006 series. Pakistan had major retirements of Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, and Saeed Anwar after the 2003 WC debacle. 

I think India will beat Pakistan in tests right now. ODIs could be competitive depending on form and fitness of Pakistan team. Pakistan ODI team is not as bad as what they’ve shown. A lot of key players misfiring and out of form 

Not won a single game since Kuldeep debuted. And it's the same guys.

 

Babar, Imam, Fakhar, Shadab, Shaheen have been part of all those losses.

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

I could say the same about 2004-2006 series. Pakistan had major retirements of Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, and Saeed Anwar after the 2003 WC debacle. 

I think India will beat Pakistan in tests right now. ODIs could be competitive depending on form and fitness of Pakistan team. Pakistan ODI team is not as bad as what they’ve shown. A lot of key players misfiring and out of form 

FYI...Saqlain didn't retire after 2003 WC. He wZ thrown out of the team due to his poor performance. 

 

He even played 2004 Test series, where he hyped about his "Teesra" which he has created to bamboozle Indian batters...after that Sehwag's 309 happened and then Saqlain never set foot on ground to play again.

 

Btw...even India lost Srinath after 2003 WC, Zak was injured and didn't play and we had to send an inexperienced Irfan Pathan, L Balaji, Murali Karthik, Ramesh Powar type bowlers in 2004 who defeated Pakistan 3-2 in ODI's & 2-1 in Tests.

 

2005 ODI series we lost due to infighting between Dravid, Ganguly & Chappell. MSD was a newbie who was super inconsistent. Sachin was also struggling with his tennis elbow and didn't has best of days from 2004-06.

 

2006 series, we lost Test series & were trailing ODI by 0-1, then RP Singh, Sree, Agarkar took command and defeated Pakistan 4-1. Not to mention the inns by Yuvraj and then 72(46)* & 77(56)* by MSD in third and fifth ODI respectively. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by singhvivek141

[deathmonger]

22 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

FYI...Saqlain didn't retire after 2003 WC. He wZ thrown out of the team due to his poor performance. 

 

He even played 2004 Test series, where he hyped about his "Teesra" which he has created to bamboozle Indian batters...after that Sehwag's 309 happened and then Saqlain never set foot on ground to play again.

 

Btw...even India lost Srinath after 2003 WC, Zak was injured and didn't play and we had to send an inexperienced Irfan Pathan, L Balaji, Murali Karthik, Ramesh Powar type bowlers in 2004 who defeated Pakistan 3-2 in ODI's & 2-1 in Tests.

 

2005 ODI series we lost due to infighting between Dravid, Ganguly & Chappell. MSD was a newbie who was super inconsistent. Sachin was also struggling with his tennis elbow and didn't has best of days from 2004-06.

 

2006 series, we lost Test series & were trailing ODI by 0-1, then RP Singh, Sree, Agarkar took command and defeated Pakistan 4-1. Not to mention the inns by Yuvraj and then 72(46)* & 77(56)* by MSD in third and fifth ODI respectively. 

Plus 2007 won both ODI and test series after humiliating Pak in the World T20

[Dil Dil India]

On 10/28/2022 at 5:18 PM, Dil Dil India said:

The constant "we have a better record than you historically" from our neighbours(not counting trolls like BVB and "its" ilk) is not just annoying but also patently false. It is time to dispel this myth once and for all:

 

Pakistan have an 88-73 HTH edge against India across formats, This translates to a 54-46 advantage in percentage terms, i.e. Pakistan have historically won 5.4 out of every 10 matches vs India. And this is where the "superiority ends". Here is a breakdown:

 

1. Head-to-head

 

As stated above, Pak do have a slight edge across formats historically (primarily due to us barely playing any matches outside tournaments in the last 15 years or so when we have been a comfortably better side). However, India have a 13-1 (!!!) edge in WCs and 15-4 edge in ICC tournaments in general. To sum up:

 

* Pakistan have a 54% winning record vs India overall.

* in the biggest matches (i.e WCs), India have a 93% winning record vs Pakistan. This includes 3 WC knockout games => 2 of which India went on to win. This more than makes up for the slight edge that Pak have in Kitply, Coca Cola, Sharjah and Pav Bhaji cups.

* to keep our neighbours happy, let us also include Champions Trophy records => India's HTH edge in ICC tournaments is 15-4, a 79% winning record vs Pakistan.

 

2. Trophies

 

The point of cricket and sport in general is to win trophies. 

 

* World Cups => India 2, Pakistan 1 

* ICC Champions Trophy => India 2, Pakistan 1

* T20 World Cup => India 1, Pakistan 1

 

In all of the above cases, India did it well before Pakistan and are comfortably ahead. Since a lot of greenbros were shouting over rooftops about Asia Cup last month (prior to Rizzy screwing them over vs SL):

 

* Asia Cups => India 7, Pakistan 2

 

3. Test Cricket

 

Now greenbros will rightly or wrongly switch to "oh but test cricket is the best form of the game" => Ok:

 

India have won series in more countries. Pakistan couldn't even win a series in WI until fairly recently. India have held the test mace and the number 1 ranking for longer than Rizwan and Babar have been active as professional players. It is an absolute no contest.

 

 

India really missed a trick by stopping bilateral series with these plonkers; seeing Bumrah and Shami steaming in on a spicy track vs Zimbabar and UAEwan would have been hilarious.

 

BUMP:

 

4 WCs to 2

2 CTs to 1

8 Asia Cups to 2

 

 

The HTH which neighbours love to shout is a slim 88-76 adv now which is nothing against india's 17-4 HTH in ICC tournaments and 15-1 in WCs including 1 win toss win match dubai 2021 fluke.

[Kron]

11 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

BUMP:

 

4 WCs to 2

2 CTs to 1

8 Asia Cups to 2

 

 

The HTH which neighbours love to shout is a slim 88-76 adv now which is nothing against india's 17-4 HTH in ICC tournaments and 15-1 in WCs including 1 win toss win match dubai 2021 fluke.

That's embarrassing for parkies lmao

 

17-4 holy ****. 

 

That is terrible. 

 

 

[Kron]

And no i disagree. It won't be competitive at all

 

If they played tests from 2012 to now against us. I don't believe we will even lose one game. Even if it were against misbahs pak in u.a.e.

We will still stomp them

 

It would have been a blood bath

 

Like 12 0 in 4 proper test series over the years overall. 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by Kron