1st Test Nagpur, February 09 - 13, 2023, Australia tour of India - PREMATCH

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

How about the new fellow Todd Murphy? 

he's good. can even become as good as lyon over time.

[AuxiliA]

10 hours ago, AKane said:

I expect this to be the Australian bowling in first test

 

Cummins

Lance Morris

Boland

Lyon

Todd Murphy

 

 

 

 

That's a very long tail! No way Aus is going to field that in India out of all places. They will go with 4 bowlers like they generally do. 

 

Agar (will get in due to his batting & SLA) 

Cummins

Lyon

Boland

 

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

 

1. Sehwag

2. Gambhir

3. Dravid

4. Tendulkar

5. Laxman

 

6. Pant(wk) 

7. Jadeja

8. Ashwin

9. Shami

10. Bumrah

11. Siraj

 

Pretty solid lineup! 3 lefties. Lots of bowling options. Will do well in all conditions. 

 

Replace Gambhir with Gavaskar and Siraj with Kapil, you will get the All Time India Test XI. 

Gavaskar over Gambhir any day but must add that the former is overrated a tad too much by our fans. The greatest beneficiary of Packer years (and earlier WI popgun attacks), otherwise his stats against full strength/prime Aus/WI make for dismal reading. There's a reason ATGs like Lillee, Roberts rate Vishy above Sunny. When people talk about his record against WI, question to ask is which WI? Similarly made merry in the 1977-78 tour to Aus, a team so depleted that they had to recall a retired 42 something Bob  Simpson. When the first choice players from WI/Aus turned up, we saw who's who. Failed against Hadlee in NZ, couple of good innings in Eng across how many tests(?), some pointless runs in Pakistan. And overachieved in dead rubbers, flat pitches where draw was a given......comparing him to Viv or placing him as Indian GOAT batsman ahead of Sachin is a joke, sorry for my undiplomatic opinion. Lower tier of ATG for me, nowhere as great as hyped by some stats/milestones obsessed fans and nostalgia tards. Unpopular opinion but I don't think Sunny was even better than Boycott. 

 

Kapil makes a strong case for overseas tests. For home not sure. Depending on combo I may prefer better strike options. 

 

Sachin is a certainty....Dravid vs Pujara, Kohli vs VVS/Vishy...or other contenders from previous era....19-20 ka antar. With Pant as #6 option followed by Kapil/Jadeja/Mankad we needn't split hairs about specialist MO bats that much. 

 

Pant a certainty

 

Maybe Srinath gets in place of one of the current quicks, again not going to make much of a difference.

 

For overseas tests sole spinner (or no spinner even) is good enough and Jadeja in last couple of years has made a strong case for himself. I think he is only going to get better as a batsman. Pick him or Mankad, even if there is a difference it won't be game changing. Tests outside SC are anyway almost always won by quicks (unless you have a Warne calibre spinner, maybe even Benaud->what he brought to the table as a package: AR skills+captaincy)...for home tests Jadeja has done more than ok, hasn't he?

 

Chandra is another one like Gavaskar, made merry against depleted Aus/WI, NZ was a minnow for most of his career. Had couple of good to great performances in Eng. But had his share of failures as well even in SC, worst batsman in history of cricket as well (record number of ducks or something). Would rather play a quick overseas, for SC there are candidates in Kumble, Ashwin (Prasanna, Bedi miss out IMO). Gupte is an interesting choice but he was at his best on jute mat wickets, like the Pak pacer Fazal Mahmood (that's what many miss when including him in Pak AT XI). Anyway 19-20....for SC conditions I'll prefer Kumble or Ashwin.

 

That's why I said more or less, 80-90% maximum strength etc. When you construct ATG Indian XI 7-8 players in the team will be replacable and there is a pretty big pool to choose from. We don't have many high tier ATGs or GOAT contenders especially when it comes to fast bowlers, ARs (of the Kallis/Sobers/Imran/Hadlee class), spinners like Warne (even Underwood was a wet wicket specialist and I don't know much about past legends like O'Reilly, Grimmett, Verity, Laker, Wardle, Tayfield... @Vijyyou know?), who just force their way in the XI and take the team to a different level. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Gollum

[AuxiliA]

8 hours ago, zen said:

lol at the thought of Ashwin, Jadeja, etc,. in an Indian AT 11 when guys like Mankad, Chandra, Kumble, etc, are available (even for AT11s, some people appear to be stuck with the imagination of playing on doctored pitches )

 

ICF strikes again! 

 

Chalo atleast you didn't include Sir Don Pandya in there, will give you that. 

 

Chandra and Kumble played on 'doctored pitches' too (with home umpires) and none of them can bat anywhere near as good as Jadeja/Ashwin. The latter have saved so many tests (even in SENA) with their batting alone. 

 

Mankad is actually a pretty good shoutout but he played so long ago, in an era that wasn't as professional as modern times and India was a proper minnow. Difficult for me to pick him over our golden generation players. 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

 

Chalo atleast you didn't include Sir Don Pandya in there, will give you that. 

 

Chandra and Kumble played on 'doctored pitches' too (with home umpires) and none of them can bat anywhere near as good as Jadeja/Ashwin. The latter have saved so many tests (even in SENA) with their batting alone. 

 

Mankad is actually a pretty good shoutout but he played so long ago, in an era that wasn't as professional as modern times and India was a proper minnow. Difficult for me to pick him over our golden generation players. 

keep trying …. 

[AuxiliA]

In the infamous Chennai test 1999, imagine if we had Ashwin & Jadeja instead of Sunil Joshi & Kumble. 

 

We collapsed from 254/6 to 258ao chasing 271! Had Ash-Jad been there, Sachin would finally have an ATG innings in a winning cause. 

 

 

[Vijy]

42 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Gavaskar over Gambhir any day but must add that the former is overrated a tad too much by our fans. The greatest beneficiary of Packer years (and earlier WI popgun attacks), otherwise his stats against full strength/prime Aus/WI make for dismal reading. There's a reason ATGs like Lillee, Roberts rate Vishy above Sunny. When people talk about his record against WI, question to ask is which WI? Similarly made merry in the 1977-78 tour to Aus, a team so depleted that they had to recall a retired 42 something Bob  Simpson. When the first choice players from WI/Aus turned up, we saw who's who. Failed against Hadlee in NZ, couple of good innings in Eng across how many tests(?), some pointless runs in Pakistan. And overachieved in dead rubbers, flat pitches where draw was a given......comparing him to Viv or placing him as Indian GOAT batsman ahead of Sachin is a joke, sorry for my undiplomatic opinion. Lower tier of ATG for me, nowhere as great as hyped by some stats/milestones obsessed fans and nostalgia tards. Unpopular opinion but I don't think Sunny was even better than Boycott. 

 

Kapil makes a strong case for overseas tests. For home not sure. Depending on combo I may prefer better strike options. 

 

Sachin is a certainty....Dravid vs Pujara, Kohli vs VVS/Vishy...or other contenders from previous era....19-20 ka antar. With Pant as #6 option followed by Kapil/Jadeja/Mankad we needn't split hairs about specialist MO bats that much. 

 

Pant a certainty

 

Maybe Srinath gets in place of one of the current quicks, again not going to make much of a difference.

 

For overseas tests sole spinner (or no spinner even) is good enough and Jadeja in last couple of years has made a strong case for himself. I think he is only going to get better as a batsman. Pick him or Mankad, even if there is a difference it won't be game changing. Tests outside SC are anyway almost always won by quicks (unless you have a Warne calibre spinner, maybe even Benaud->what he brought to the table as a package: AR skills+captaincy)...for home tests Jadeja has done more than ok, hasn't he?

 

Chandra is another one like Gavaskar, made merry against depleted Aus/WI, NZ was a minnow for most of his career. Had couple of good to great performances in Eng. But had his share of failures as well even in SC, worst batsman in history of cricket as well (record number of ducks or something). Would rather play a quick overseas, for SC there are candidates in Kumble, Ashwin (Prasanna, Bedi miss out IMO). Gupte is an interesting choice but he was at his best on jute mat wickets, like the Pak pacer Fazal Mahmood (that's what many miss when including him in Pak AT XI). Anyway 19-20....for SC conditions I'll prefer Kumble or Ashwin.

 

That's why I said more or less, 80-90% maximum strength etc. When you construct ATG Indian XI 7-8 players in the team will be replacable and there is a pretty big pool to choose from. We don't have many high tier ATGs or GOAT contenders especially when it comes to fast bowlers, ARs (of the Kallis/Sobers/Imran/Hadlee class), spinners like Warne (even Underwood was a wet wicket specialist and I don't know much about past legends like O'Reilly, Grimmett, Verity, Laker, Wardle, Tayfield... @Vijyyou know?), who just force their way in the XI and take the team to a different level. 

I agree with most of the above (such as sunny's batting vs WI), but I don't think I would pick ashwin for home tests (even turners). I would have jadeja though for his superior batting and fielding. kumble is also a solid pick for 2nd spinner in home conditions on turning pitches.

 

overseas, I think one spinner is enough on some, but not all, pitches. we would benefit from two spinners on certain pitches IMO because our pace strength until recently was meager. While I agree chandra had it easy on some tours, I still rate him higher than all post-80s spinners overseas.

 

I am glad you mentioned wardle. one of the most complete post-WW2 spinners (bowled both orthodox and unorthodox left-arm spin), who got royally effed by eng admin. he had marvellous skill, control, etc. and should have played more than tony "wet wicket" lock. only blot on wardle is his record in WI against their greatest ever batting lineups but one must remember a few caveats: (a) he didn't get consistent run; (b) played on some roads; (c) was dogged by unfair criticism and controversy.

 

pre-WW2, most who saw o'reilly speak very very highly of him. given his type of bowling style, he was probably quite a special bowler, i.e., spin at slow medium pace. and one has SF barnes, perhaps the only medium-fast bowler who bowled spin (i.e., avg pace of around 115-120 but with big turn)

Edited February 6, 2023 by Vijy

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Well there's a reason why most of us rate SRT as India's best ever, arguable the best ever in the world as well. Whilst it is true he failed in a lot of games when chasing so did *ing everyone else, however there aren't so many games where others stood up like him especially counter attacking great bowlers! In recent times only Sehwag & pant come to mind, the likes of VVS & to a much lesser extent Dravid were all about absorbing pressure. Peak SRT, if he could've batted long not unlike Lara, would've been the best test bat ever ahead of the overrated Don 

 

I'd say the only blemish, in the first half of his career, were big innings but tbf we never played too many 4-5 match series at home & that may have contributed to it as well. At his peak he played what 15-20 tests less than Júnior Waugh 

even in post-WW2, he can't be put higher than steven smith. other players I've seen some innings (albeit not live) who I rank higher are ken barrington, sir garry. graeme pollock would have also gotten there IMO with more tests.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Vijy

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

 

1. Sehwag

2. Gambhir

3. Dravid

4. Tendulkar

5. Laxman

 

6. Pant(wk) 

7. Jadeja

8. Ashwin

9. Shami

10. Bumrah

11. Siraj

 

Pretty solid lineup! 3 lefties. Lots of bowling options. Will do well in all conditions. 

 

Replace Gambhir with Gavaskar and Siraj with Kapil, you will get the All Time India Test XI. 

 

 

that is a very good lineup at home, although I think the bowling will dip somewhat overseas. I would have many (but not all) from this core in an all-time XI

[Gollum]

Big test for Smith this year, 4 tests in India, 5 in England. Has declined lately but if he fires in these 2 tours, will cement his legacy. 

[Vijy]

Just now, Gollum said:

Big test for Smith this year, 4 tests in India, 5 in England. Has declined lately but if he fires in these 2 tours, will cement his legacy. 

even if he has an average of "only" 45 or so, I would still say he will be the best ever post-WW2 batter.

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

we will lose 3-1 without iyer, pant.

 

Im feeling that we will lose to Australia, our batting is sub par.

 

We would have lost to Bangla if they had even a remotely competent batting line up.

 

Australia's batting is light years superior and in form compare to SL and Bangla.

[Vijy]

34 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

In the infamous Chennai test 1999, imagine if we had Ashwin & Jadeja instead of Sunil Joshi & Kumble. 

 

We collapsed from 254/6 to 258ao chasing 271! Had Ash-Jad been there, Sachin would finally have an ATG innings in a winning cause. 

 

 

it's not about ash-jaddu or X-Y. sunil joshi and kumble were both bowling ARs in domestics, and even in tests had pretty good avgs. it's just that they choked hard in that particular match.

[Vijy]

Just now, SRT100 said:

 

Im feeling that we will lose to Australia, our batting is sub par.

 

We would have lost to Bangla if they had even a remotely competent batting line up.

 

Australia's batting is light years superior and in form compare to SL and Bangla.

Even a declining Smith alone is better than 3 of our batters.

[SRT100]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Even a declining Smith alone is better than 3 of our batters.

 

I would pick a declining Smith over every single Indian batsman named for this series and that includes Gill and Iyer.

[Vijy]

21 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

I would pick a declining Smith over every single Indian batsman named for this series and that includes Gill and Iyer.

declining smith or pre-injury pant (who is absent)?

[rollingstoned]

hazelwood is out of the first test. 

[SRT100]

28 minutes ago, Vijy said:

declining smith or pre-injury pant (who is absent)?

Pant all day, every day.

 

He is my favorite cricketer.

[SRT100]

9 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

hazelwood is out of the first test. 

 

So is Strac.

 

India should play 3D chess and prepare a fast track. lol

[AKane]

26 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

So is Strac.

 

India should play 3D chess and prepare a fast track. lol

Lance Morris will play.

 

Cummins, Boland and Morris is not too shabby...... of course none is in the Unadkat class.