Duleep Trophy 2023

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

IPL is fo T20 format where you have to score runs against all types of bowling.  You should test him in longer format not IPL. If IPL is the gauge Pujara should never ever play Tests again.

Samething applies to Vinay Kumar, he played one lousy test and was discarded based on odis and t20s why?

 

Sarfraz's career is not over yet.I hope he gets to play test cricket soon.

[vvvslaxman]

This is the performance of Indians in WI since 2010

 

Kohli/Pujara were outperformed by Vihari/Saha/Ashwin with bat. 

 

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

This is the performance of Indians in WI since 2010

 

Kohli/Pujara were outperformed by Vihari/Saha/Ashwin with bat. 

 

What is your point.Rahane is topping the list and IMO he should not be there.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Samething applies to Vinay Kumar, he played one lousy test and was discarded based on odis and t20s why?

 

Sarfraz's career is not over yet.I hope he gets to play test cricket soon.

 

India used to play 3 seamers back then. Bhuvi, Shami, Ishant , Zaheer were in contention. Vinay kumar had to be much better than them. That is not the same scenario here.

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What is your point.Rahane is topping the list and IMO he should not be there.

 

 

 

Kohli failed even when he was in good form. Now he is in dreadful form. What is t he need of him against this West Indies which is in pathetic state.

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

India used to play 3 seamers back then. Bhuvi, Shami, Ishant , Zaheer were in contention. Vinay kumar had to be much better than them. That is not the same scenario here.

They could not give Vinay kumar one more test after 2012 ,when all the above players were injured also, he was not even in the test squads after 2012  why ? Vinay Kumar was leading Karnataka and winning every damn trophy under sun for his team as bowler and captain.

 

yes that is why Pujara is out, Rahane not only getting his place back but also becoming VC is ridiculous.

Edited July 10, 2023 by putrevus

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Kohli failed even when he was in good form. Now he is in dreadful form. What is t he need of him against this West Indies which is in pathetic state.

I don't mind Kohli getting dropped at all for this series. They should have given youngsters a chance with no seniors.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, putrevus said:

They could not give Vinay kumar one more test after 2012 ,when all the above players were injured also, he was not even in the test squads after 2012  why ?

 

yes that is why Pujara is out, Rahane not only getting his place back but also becoming VC is ridiculous/

 

You realize we live in a country where bowlers get raw deal right? Ashwin dropped 6 tests in a row in England while we persisting the washed up oldies as if they are English ground experts.

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You realize we live in a country where bowlers get raw deal right? Ashwin dropped 6 tests in a row in England while we persisting the washed up oldies as if they are English ground experts.

No bowlers don't get raw deal, Ishant played 100 plus tests.Vinay while be great at domestic level was never going to cut it at international level.Selectors realize that fact, the same thing applies to many batsmen being discussed here.

 

Ashwin getting dropped in  England was right decision, Ashwin  did not get any raw deal.

 

Yes last three years have been awful, Pujara and Rahane were let go ater SA series and that should have been end of the story for them. I have no idea why they were back into the team.

 

Kohli getting chances was right decison till Australian series but after the ICC finals, there was no need for him also.

 

It should have been complete rebuilding of the team in WI.

Edited July 10, 2023 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

46 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No bowlers don't get raw deal, Ishant played 100 plus tests.Vinay while be great at domestic level was never going to cut it at international level.Selectors realize that fact, the same thing applies to many batsmen being discussed here.

 

Ashwin getting dropped in  England was right decision, Ashwin  did not get any raw deal.

 

Yes last three years have been awful, Pujara and Rahane were let go ater SA series and that should have been end of the story for them. I have no idea why they were back into the team.

 

Kohli getting chances was right decison till Australian series but after the ICC finals, there was no need for him also.

 

It should have been complete rebuilding of the team in WI.

Batsmen have to be given chance before being judged. With 0 chances it is very hard. Eye test selection is a lottery.  Gill was identified even at u19 level. So was Sarfraz, Jaiswal. If he failed in first class like Unmukt Chand was we can discard him But he did well there. For all the gapping holes in technique both Mayank and KL had enough chances. 

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Batsmen have to be given chance before being judged. With 0 chances it is very hard. Eye test selection is a lottery.  Gill was identified even at u19 level. So was Sarfraz, Jaiswal. If he failed in first class like Unmukt Chand was we can discard him But he did well there. For all the gapping holes in technique both Mayank and KL had enough chances. 

Every player needs to be given chances. I always believe,  every talented player deserves to get chances in one format and how they perform in that format should lead them to their selections to other formats.

 

Vinay Kumar is perfect example why domestic stats cannot be taken as the only thing for selection.

 

I cannot blame selectors for not selecting Sarfraz after he looked overmatched against fast bowling.

 

Guys like Rohit and Rahul always will have more chances to  impress as they play whiteball cricket compared a guy like Pujara who does not play whiteball cricket.

 

Not saying Sarfraz should not get chances in test cricket.

Edited July 10, 2023 by putrevus

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Vinay Kumar played one test, how is it fair shot?

 

Sarfraz fitness has issues and as we saw he was found out by fast bowling IPL itself. I would give a guy like SKY a chance again even now over Sarfraz any day.

 

BTW, I am not saying Sarfraz should not be picked in place of Rahane.Rahne is done, there is no need to play Rahane now.Sarfraz should have been playing the first test against WI.

 

My point was about Ranji trophy stats.

In Perth...the best pitch a bowler could ever ask for.

And despite getting multiple overs to redeem himself, that fellow choked over after over after over.

 

If you can't terrotize the batter on Perth, where you will do it. It's like a spinner playing Test in Chepauk but still ending up wicketless and going for huge pile of runs. Nothing can be worse than that.

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

In Perth...the best pitch a bowler could ever ask for.

And despite getting multiple overs to redeem himself, that fellow choked over after over after over.

 

If you can't terrotize the batter on Perth, where you will do it. It's like a spinner playing Test in Chepauk but still ending up wicketless and going for huge pile of runs. Nothing can be worse than that.

 

While I agree that Vinay was not fit for Tests, but Ishant was smacked too in that Test on same pitch.

[singhvivek141]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

While I agree that Vinay was not fit for Tests, but Ishant was smacked too in that Test on same pitch.

Ishant was a dud from 2009 to 2017..with a bit of performance here and there. Courtesy of Jason Gillespie he was able to recover some respectable stats.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Ishant was a dud from 2009 to 2017..with a bit of performance here and there. Courtesy of Jason Gillespie he was able to recover some respectable stats.

 

Was still persisted. Some are just backed more than others.

 

He wasn't too quick either.

[singhvivek141]

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Batsmen have to be given chance before being judged. With 0 chances it is very hard. Eye test selection is a lottery.  Gill was identified even at u19 level. So was Sarfraz, Jaiswal. If he failed in first class like Unmukt Chand was we can discard him But he did well there. For all the gapping holes in technique both Mayank and KL had enough chances. 

Mayank was actually a very good option in home conditions, when likes of Kohli, Pujara, Rahane used to struggle against spinners, he was the one who can counter attack them.

Iyer is another one who is a beast against spinners, I think Sarfaraz is also of the same calibre..very good against spinners, dud against fast bowlers.

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

In Perth...the best pitch a bowler could ever ask for.

And despite getting multiple overs to redeem himself, that fellow choked over after over after over.

 

If you can't terrotize the batter on Perth, where you will do it. It's like a spinner playing Test in Chepauk but still ending up wicketless and going for huge pile of runs. Nothing can be worse than that.

So how many tests did Bumrah choke, how many odis did he choke, how many t20s did he choke.

 

Is there a bigger choker in history of cricket than Bumrah.

 

 

Your point about  Vinay choking is completely wrong.Anyone can have a bad test.

 

Shane Warne has awful record in Chennai and India, does it mean  he is useless spinner.

 

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So how many tests did Bumrah choke, how many odis did he choke, how many t20s did he choke.

 

Is there a bigger choker in history of cricket than Bumrah.

 

 

Your point about  Vinay choking is completely wrong.Anyone can have a bad test.

 

Shane Warne has awful record in Chennai and India, does it mean  he is useless spinner.

 

Agree, but it's not like Vinay Kumar lit the world by fire in ODI's. He played 31 games, decent number to show his potential ..still averages 37 with economy of almost 6. It was clear he was not cut out for internationals

 

Bumrah had good numbers despite such chokes.

[vvvslaxman]

54 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Every player needs to be given chances. I always believe,  every talented player deserves to get chances in one format and how they perform in that format should lead them to their selections to other formats.

 

Vinay Kumar is perfect example why domestic stats cannot be taken as the only thing for selection.

 

I cannot blame selectors for not selecting Sarfraz after he looked overmatched against fast bowling.

 

Guys like Rohit and Rahul always will have more chances to  impress as they play whiteball cricket compared a guy like Pujara who does not play whiteball cricket.

 

Not saying Sarfraz should not get chances in test cricket.

Do not compare vinay with Sarfraz. Sarfraz was identified even at school level. He came through ranks. He is playing for premiere Ranji team. If puara with that clownish technique against bouncers could play 100 tests why not 1 test for Sarfraz

 For all the skills of Rahane against pace he had a distinctly average career. Same with KL. If he is good enough he will find a way. If there is a 5% chance that he can replicate the success at the highest level you take it. If he fails move on. This reject ion based on eye test can be misleading. Head looks all at sea against short ball..his innings at the Gabba vs SA played a major role in their win.

 

[putrevus]

24 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Agree, but it's not like Vinay Kumar lit the world by fire in ODI's. He played 31 games, decent number to show his potential ..still averages 37 with economy of almost 6. It was clear he was not cut out for internationals

 

Bumrah had good numbers despite such chokes.

Sarfraz did not light up IPL either when facing quality fast bowling where he looked over matched.Just like Vinay Kumar who got judged based on his whiteball cricket .

 

Vinay Kumar was not judged based on his red ball stats, I will give you another example Pankaj singh another domestic fast bowling giant in redball cricket, who did he do in tests he got selected.

 

Bumrah inspite of all the chokes will be my first fast bowler in the team when he is ready in any format. You just hope he does well the next chance he gets.

 

You may disagree. but batting talent IMO in this country was not that  great since 2008-2018.Kohli was great till 2019-20 he never got help in his prime , even  then he felll off the cliff which noone expected at his age.

 

But why did guys like Pujara, Rahane, Rahul got the same long rope is beyond me.KL Rahul becoming captain of Indian test team should be joke of the century.It cheapened test cricket IMO.

 

A guy like Kohli was given long rope rightly so till he found bearings but he flopped again in ICC finals.That finals should have been end of the road for Rohit, Rahane and Kohli.

 

IMO you cannot pick and choose when you play and drop core players .Just like how you hope Bumrah does well in big spots, once you choose your core batting which is now Gill you stick with him thru thick and thin.