Rank them as all rounders in Tests

[Majestic]

On 7/4/2023 at 7:08 PM, Lord said:

 

Then why don't opposition spinners do well consistently. Even in England, Anderson and Broad run riot. Stokes just been bad or not required.

 

If home games are big for Stokes, they are for Jadeja too. Have same parameters.

 

That's just to say he's more aggresive and stroke maker. Just different playing styles.

 

Sehwag produced innings Dravid or even Sachin couldn't. Means nothing.

 

All those innings were on pattas with nothing much for spinners. Lords they didnt have a spinner.

Opposition spinners have done well in India, guys like Okeefe came and took 8-fers for fun.

 

The pitches in England are more well balanced than India. That's a fact. If India wants to win overseas they must produce pitches which offer something for everyone. Otherwise everytime it will be Ashwin/Jadeja taking 25 wickets and winning player of series for India. But in overseas conditions, they barely win a player of match.

 

Stokes is not only aggressive and better in strokemaking but he also has played far more impactful knocks than Jadeja has. Comparing their batting on averages is like comparing Zak bowling with Kallis. Stokes has 13 hundreds, Jadeja has 3. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Majestic

[Lord]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Opposition spinners have done well in India, guys like Okeefe came and took 8-fers for fun.

 

The pitches in England are more well balanced than India. That's a fact. If India wants to win overseas they must produce pitches which offer something for everyone. Otherwise everytime it will be Ashwin/Jadeja taking 25 wickets and winning player of series for India. But in overseas conditions, they barely win a player of match.

 

Stokes is not only aggressive and better in strokemaking but he also has played far more impactful knocks than Jadeja has. Comparing their batting on averages is like comparing Zak bowling with Kallis. Stokes has 13 hundreds, Jadeja has 3. 

O Keefe struggled in rest of the series. It wasn't taking 8fer 'for fun'. Ash-Jaddu did well whole series

 

When did Anderson/Broad win POTM in India?

 

Stokes bats higher up the order so obviously will have bigger scores. Jaddu used to bat at 8 and now moved to 7. Still has equal numbers

[Lord]

 

[Majestic]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

 

 

 

 

Jadeja's batting avg is skewed due to not outs. Batting at 5 is not same as 7-8. Hence, we can't just look at average. Imran for example has an average of 38, he was hardly a better batsman than Kapil.

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Jadeja's batting avg is skewed due to not outs. Batting at 5 is not same as 7-8. Hence, we can't just look at average. Imran for example has an average of 38, he was hardly a better batsman than Kapil.

Batting down you get less overs/time too, so evens out.

[Majestic]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

Batting down you get less overs/time too, so evens out.

It doesn't. If Jadeja bats higher, his average would be 31.

[Lord]

17 minutes ago, Majestic said:

It doesn't. If Jadeja bats higher, his average would be 31.

arbitrary number

[vvvslaxman]

d

Edited July 6, 2023 by vvvslaxman

[Majestic]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

arbitrary number

His 15 not outs would have converted into wickets and that would have reduced his average.

 

He had 20 not outs in 60 odd tests which helped him inflate his average.

 

Knocks like

 

15*, 0, 20*, 45, 25 will give him average of 35 but it is not of much significance.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

His 15 not outs would have converted into wickets and that would have reduced his average.

 

He had 20 not outs in 60 odd tests which helped him inflate his average.

 

Knocks like

 

15*, 0, 20*, 45, 25 will give him average of 35 but it is not of much significance.

 

the scores will increase with more time.

 

Many times he has to bat with tail.

[Majestic]

25 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

the scores will increase with more time.

 

Many times he has to bat with tail.

By your logic, Imran would be a better bat than Stokes 

[Lord]

35 minutes ago, Majestic said:

By your logic, Imran would be a better bat than Stokes 

Even if he was,thats not saying much.

[Lord]

Was Marsh's innings a 'clutch' one?

[putrevus]

Jadeja is like Imran Khan, a bowler who can bat. He is not better batsman than Stokes.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, Lord said:

Was Marsh's innings a 'clutch' one?

 

We have to wait and see if it Pat sycomx 108 level or Azhar Mahmood 100 level or Agarkar 100 level. Even Amit Mishra made an 86 in England. All said and done they played right into his hands. He prefers pace. They fed him. He made full use of it.

[Lord]

16 hours ago, putrevus said:

Jadeja is like Imran Khan, a bowler who can bat. He is not better batsman than Stokes.

yeah but difference in their batting is smaller than opposite difference in bowling.

 

Overall Jaddu is better AR as reflected by ICC rankings

[putrevus]

18 minutes ago, Lord said:

yeah but difference in their batting is smaller than opposite difference in bowling.

 

Overall Jaddu is better AR as reflected by ICC rankings

It all depends on where matches are being played. Stokes is a better batsman in most places and jadeja is better bowler only in Asian conditions..

Edited July 7, 2023 by putrevus

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It all depends on where matches are being played. Stokes is a better batsman in most places and jadeja is better bowler only in Asian conditions..

 

how is Stokes a better batsman in India/Asia?

 

Also their bowling averages

 

In Aus 

 

Jadeja : 22

Stokes : 41

 

In NZ

 

Jadeja : 60

Stokes : 80

 

in SA

 

Jadeja : 25

Stokes :  25

Edited July 7, 2023 by Lord

[putrevus]

31 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

how is Stokes a better batsman in India/Asia?

 

Also their bowling averages

 

In Aus 

 

Jadeja : 22

Stokes : 41

 

In NZ

 

Jadeja : 60

Stokes : 80

 

in SA

 

Jadeja : 25

Stokes :  25

You need to stop quoting the avg for everything and understand what they two bring to the  table.

 

If India play in SENA and They have to chose between Stokes and jadeja, who will they pick.

 

Stokes can walk into any side of the world as a batsman .

 

fast bowling allrounders  are always valued higher over spinning allrounders.We have not seen a leg spinning allrounder yet.

Edited July 7, 2023 by putrevus

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You need to stop quoting the avg for everything and understand what they two bring to the  table.

 

If India play in SENA and They have to chose between Stokes and jadeja, who will they pick.

 

Stokes can walk into any side of the world as a batsman .

 

 

 

Good copout.Now plain averages mean nothing because they show up biases.

 

For the bolded part, he'll walk in side as batsman only in SENA, or especially England. Batted like a tailender everytime it turned on last two India trips. No thanks

 

There are many batsmen who are better than him to pick. And he's glorified part time bowler now.