ODI cricket - a forgotten skill for Indian players?

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, AKane said:

Okay - so Aus was great but did Zaheer have to bowl the first over he did? He looked drunk. Srinath was better but not much better.

 

Was there a need to select Dinesh Mongia? Kumble in the side and having Harbhajan who had taken Gilchrist and Hayden paired with Kumble would have meant no relent in the attack at that point.

 

When we were batting Sehwag and Ganguly had made a bit of recovery and Sehwag had bludgeoned 20 of one spin over when the rains came. That totally slowed down the outfield which before was very fast.

Zaheer admitted he was very very nervous. So was Srinath and not selecting Kumble was a big mistake too. 

 

7 th batsmen was not needed at all.  India was better allround team than Australia to be honest.

 

The loss was more due to mental weakness than Australian team being great.

 

The had Mcgrath and Lee who could have been put under pressure if someone attacked them.

[Nikhil_cric]

35 minutes ago, AKane said:

Okay - so Aus was great but did Zaheer have to bowl the first over he did? He looked drunk. Srinath was better but not much better.

 

Was there a need to select Dinesh Mongia? Kumble in the side and having Harbhajan who had taken Gilchrist and Hayden paired with Kumble would have meant no relent in the attack at that point.

 

When we were batting Sehwag and Ganguly had made a bit of recovery and Sehwag had bludgeoned 20 of one spin over when the rains came. That totally slowed down the outfield which before was very fast.

Anil Kumble was in terrible ODI form in 2002 and hadn't played since Pakistan game. I don't think it would have made sense to throw him into the final without any game time.  They probably wanted a batting heavy balance but Mongia had only ever shown ability against Zimbabwe and a knock against England.

 

To be fair, Kaif was in pretty rubbish form going into the World Cup. Neither Mongia nor kaif deserved to be in that World Cup let alone that final. But that just exposes our squad depth or lack thereof. Having two guys who were neither batting well and couldn't offer a bowling option either made us a weaker squad than Australia who were all in great form going into the tournament.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Anil Kumble was in terrible ODI form in 2002 and hadn't played since Pakistan game. I don't think it would have made sense to throw him into the final without any game time.  They probably wanted a batting heavy balance but Mongia had only ever shown ability against Zimbabwe and a knock against England.

 

To be fair, Kaif was in pretty rubbish form going into the World Cup. Neither Mongia nor kaif deserved to be in that World Cup let alone that final. But that just exposes our squad depth or lack thereof. Having two guys who were neither batting well and couldn't offer a bowling option either made us a weaker squad than Australia who were all in great form going into the tournament.

Pitch was way too flat. India got intimidated by Brett Lee ahead of the match and chose to field first.

[Vijy]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:51 PM, vvvslaxman said:

Pitch was way too flat. India got intimidated by Brett Lee ahead of the match and chose to field first.

also by McG and punter. basically by everyone

[Axl100mph]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:33 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

There was nothing we could have done against OZ in 2003. Maybe bat first but that team had way too much quality.

Also, Pakistan should not be underestimated. In the past, they had sides driven by individual brilliance but even then there were weak links that could be targeted.

 

Past it Miandad, mediocre Aqib Javed in 1996.  Past it Salim Malik, Afridi,  Saqlain( in England) in 1999. An aged, fractious side in 2003. Mediocrities like Misbah, YK, Asad Shafiq, Afridi, and Shehzad in 2011 and 2015 etc.

 

Don't think they'll have weak links this time. If they play an attack of Shaheen/Naseem/Ihsanullah/Usama Mir and get Saim Ayub into their top 3, we'll be the ones chasing leather.

There are zero chances of Saim and Ihsan making it to the squad. Ihsan has an elbow injury which has ruled him out of the 100, while Saim is just too raw at yhe moment and nowhere close to the odi team particularly with how imam and fakhar are performing. 

 

Rauf as a 3rd pacer is superior to ihsan at the moment.

He is probably one of the best middle phases bowlers and hits an extra gear in tournaments. Ihsan on the other hand even if he was fit is still raw and needs to improve his defensive skills as well as his fielding. 

I agree about Mir although i would play both him and Shadab together in place of the out of form Nawaz.

 

[Axl100mph]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:33 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

There was nothing we could have done against OZ in 2003. Maybe bat first but that team had way too much quality.

Also, Pakistan should not be underestimated. In the past, they had sides driven by individual brilliance but even then there were weak links that could be targeted.

 

Past it Miandad, mediocre Aqib Javed in 1996.  Past it Salim Malik, Afridi,  Saqlain( in England) in 1999. An aged, fractious side in 2003. Mediocrities like Misbah, YK, Asad Shafiq, Afridi, and Shehzad in 2011 and 2015 etc.

 

Don't think they'll have weak links this time. If they play an attack of Shaheen/Naseem/Ihsanullah/Usama Mir and get Saim Ayub into their top 3, we'll be the ones chasing leather.

There are zero chances of Saim and Ihsan making it to the squad. Ihsan has an elbow injury which has ruled him out of the 100, while Saim is just too raw at yhe moment and nowhere close to the odi team particularly with how imam and fakhar are performing. 

 

Rauf as a 3rd pacer is superior to ihsan at the moment.

He is probably one of the best middle phases bowlers and hits an extra gear in tournaments. Ihsan on the other hand even if he was fit is still raw and needs to improve his defensive skills as well as his fielding. 

I agree about Mir although i would play both him and Shadab together in place of the out of form Nawaz.

 

[Axl100mph]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:33 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

There was nothing we could have done against OZ in 2003. Maybe bat first but that team had way too much quality.

Also, Pakistan should not be underestimated. In the past, they had sides driven by individual brilliance but even then there were weak links that could be targeted.

 

Past it Miandad, mediocre Aqib Javed in 1996.  Past it Salim Malik, Afridi,  Saqlain( in England) in 1999. An aged, fractious side in 2003. Mediocrities like Misbah, YK, Asad Shafiq, Afridi, and Shehzad in 2011 and 2015 etc.

 

Don't think they'll have weak links this time. If they play an attack of Shaheen/Naseem/Ihsanullah/Usama Mir and get Saim Ayub into their top 3, we'll be the ones chasing leather.

There are zero chances of Saim and Ihsan making it to the squad. Ihsan has an elbow injury which has ruled him out of the 100, while Saim is just too raw at yhe moment and nowhere close to the odi team particularly with how imam and fakhar are performing. 

 

Rauf as a 3rd pacer is superior to ihsan at the moment.

He is probably one of the best middle phases bowlers and hits an extra gear in tournaments. Ihsan on the other hand even if he was fit is still raw and needs to improve his defensive skills as well as his fielding. 

I agree about Mir although i would play both him and Shadab together in place of the out of form Nawaz.

 

[Axl100mph]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:33 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

There was nothing we could have done against OZ in 2003. Maybe bat first but that team had way too much quality.

Also, Pakistan should not be underestimated. In the past, they had sides driven by individual brilliance but even then there were weak links that could be targeted.

 

Past it Miandad, mediocre Aqib Javed in 1996.  Past it Salim Malik, Afridi,  Saqlain( in England) in 1999. An aged, fractious side in 2003. Mediocrities like Misbah, YK, Asad Shafiq, Afridi, and Shehzad in 2011 and 2015 etc.

 

Don't think they'll have weak links this time. If they play an attack of Shaheen/Naseem/Ihsanullah/Usama Mir and get Saim Ayub into their top 3, we'll be the ones chasing leather.

There are zero chances of Saim and Ihsan making it to the squad. Ihsan has an elbow injury which has ruled him out of the 100, while Saim is just too raw at yhe moment and nowhere close to the odi team particularly with how imam and fakhar are performing. 

 

Rauf as a 3rd pacer is superior to ihsan at the moment.

He is probably one of the best middle phases bowlers and hits an extra gear in tournaments. Ihsan on the other hand even if he was fit is still raw and needs to improve his defensive skills as well as his fielding. 

I agree about Mir although i would play both him and Shadab together in place of the out of form Nawaz.

 

[Axl100mph]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:33 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

There was nothing we could have done against OZ in 2003. Maybe bat first but that team had way too much quality.

Also, Pakistan should not be underestimated. In the past, they had sides driven by individual brilliance but even then there were weak links that could be targeted.

 

Past it Miandad, mediocre Aqib Javed in 1996.  Past it Salim Malik, Afridi,  Saqlain( in England) in 1999. An aged, fractious side in 2003. Mediocrities like Misbah, YK, Asad Shafiq, Afridi, and Shehzad in 2011 and 2015 etc.

 

Don't think they'll have weak links this time. If they play an attack of Shaheen/Naseem/Ihsanullah/Usama Mir and get Saim Ayub into their top 3, we'll be the ones chasing leather.

 

There are zero chances of Saim and Ihsan making it to the squad. Ihsan has an elbow injury which has ruled him out of the hundred, while Saim is just too raw at the moment and nowhere close to the odi team particularly with how imam and fakhar are performing. 

 

Rauf as a 3rd pacer is superior to ihsan at the moment.

He is probably one of the best middle phases bowlers and hits an extra gear in tournaments. Ihsan on the other hand even if he was fit is still raw and needs to improve his defensive skills as well as his fielding. 

 

I agree about Mir. He will be in the squad but probably wont start although i would play both him and Shadab together in place of the out of form Nawaz.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Axl100mph

[Nikhil_cric]

3 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

 

There are zero chances of Saim and Ihsan making it to the squad. Ihsan has an elbow injury which has ruled him out of the hundred, while Saim is just too raw at the moment and nowhere close to the odi team particularly with how imam and fakhar are performing. 

 

Rauf as a 3rd pacer is superior to ihsan at the moment.

He is probably one of the best middle phases bowlers and hits an extra gear in tournaments. Ihsan on the other hand even if he was fit is still raw and needs to improve his defensive skills as well as his fielding. 

 

I agree about Mir. He will be in the squad but probably wont start although i would play both him and Shadab together in place of the out of form Nawaz.

Who will be the extra seamer in the squad? Arshad?  Shadab is a pretty mediocre ODI cricketer. He's probably the best T20 spinner going around when in form but with his knee issues, I don't think he'd be effective bowling his full quota. His record since 2019 is terrible.

 

Nawaz being out form/choking will cause PAK headaches. But imo, PAK blundered by not giving opportunities to Amad Butt and Mohammad Junaid in both series against NZ. Mohammad Junaid is the closest to a Nawaz replacement - bowls decent spin and can hit the ball a mile. And Amad Butt was the player of the series in the Pakistan Cup.  These 2 literally carried Balochistan

[Axl100mph]

15 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Who will be the extra seamer in the squad? Arshad?  Shadab is a pretty mediocre ODI cricketer. He's probably the best T20 spinner going around when in form but with his knee issues, I don't think he'd be effective bowling his full quota. His record since 2019 is terrible.

 

Nawaz being out form/choking will cause PAK headaches. But imo, PAK blundered by not giving opportunities to Amad Butt and Mohammad Junaid in both series against NZ. Mohammad Junaid is the closest to a Nawaz replacement - bowls decent spin and can hit the ball a mile. And Amad Butt was the player of the series in the Pakistan Cup.  These 2 literally carried Balochistan

Wasim will be the 4th pacer. He is great for middle overs and death overs bowling because he gets natural reverse. So if rauf needs rest, he will come in. If any one of shaheen naseem sit out then Rauf will open. 

 

Right now we dont know about the 5th reserve pacer. Guys like Hasnain and Dahani are now out of favour/injured Arshad is the best bet if one of naseem or shaheen dont play, although we are not sure if he will make it because he hasnt been part of the main squads. 

 

On Shadab, I think you are reading too much from stats. 

He may not have the numbers in odis in the last few years but he is a mighty fine cricketer and particularly clutch in tournaments. He isnt a great attacking leggie but he is very good at defending plus provides value with bat and in the field. His knees should hold up fine plus we have agha to fill in for 3,4 overs if need be

 

Nawaz's batting form was down but he has still been bowling okay. It is not that big of a concern but I just feel usama is better given he is more explosive with the bat and a better attacking option with the ball. Btw. Mohammad Junaid? Who even is he lol?