ODI cricket - a forgotten skill for Indian players?

[Austin 3:!6]

I think Covid and subsequent reduction in 50 overs cricket has a lot to play for it. ODI cricket, even though played with white balls is much closer to test cricket than T20s. It still require to see off the new ball, build an innings, strike rotation in middle overs and accelerating in the death. Unlike T20s where its all about acceleration from ball 1, ODIs are very different. I think our players are trying to treat ODIs as T20 format and with so many IPL games they play muscle memory is kicking in. The last time we had a proper ODI team was in 2019 (pre Covid) where we knew how to play 50 overs format, an art we seem to be forgetting now.

[Lord]

Wrong : ODIs are extended T20s. England won a WC with that approach.

 

India is very conservative and plays ODIs like its still 2011.

 

Kimber summed it up

 

 

[Bigg Brother]

What are you talking about. India has been playing old fashioned early 2000s ODI cricket. I wish they treated it like T20s. Anyway I got your point about forgotten skills. The main thing is We are not just good enough and that we have to accept it unlike Padosis who are always in denial.

[Austin 3:!6]

Playing ODI like T20 cricket won't work...50 overs is a long time for that approach.

 

Lets analyzie our 2019 team approach that we took in the world cup. Rohit and Dhawan (later Rahul) used to see off the new ball and gave us a solid platform. The aim was to take the scoreline somewhere around 120/1 around 20 overs. 

 

Then its about strike rotation in middle overs until 40 overs which was done masterfully by Kohli, MS etc. The aim was to take the score somewhere around 250/4 in 40th over.

 

Then target around 80-90 runs in last 10 and most often than not we would post around 340 odd runs in 50 overs.

[Gollum]

We are worse in T20s . Test team being kept afloat by 4-5 extraordinary players, remaining are passengers. Indian cricket is in crisis now.

[sandeep]

39 minutes ago, Lord said:

Wrong : ODIs are extended T20s. England won a WC with that approach.

 

India is very conservative and plays ODIs like its still 2011.

 

Kimber summed it up

 

 

 

 

Been harping on this since 2016.  India wasted peak Bumrah and peak Kulcha, due to its batting tactics, and literally threw away its chance to compete for the 2019 ODI WC with bad team mgmt.  And they are well on course to repeat that failure with the humiliation of being the first host team in 15 years to fail to win the ODI WC.

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

We are worse in T20s . Test team being kept afloat by 4-5 extraordinary players, remaining are passengers. Indian cricket is in crisis now.

The trend was set by Dhoni,too much power with kaptaan is a bad bad precedent

PR agencies running the show and deciding who gets to play who is not

Even gardening takes year to bear fruits added with immense care,BCCI cares about money

That is a short term goal,Dhoni was clever enough to groom Kohli and Rohit to consolidate his legacy morons like Kohli,Rohit don't care

Even in this match ,we had Kishan,Gill,Samson where apart from Gill most of them are in and out of the side plus flawed selections also pay a part

Don't trust Samson and Axar at all

Some of them are just not capable and Incapable BCCI, captain,coach and TM is always there to make things much much worse

[LordPrabhzy]

28 minutes ago, Gollum said:

We are worse in T20s . Test team being kept afloat by 4-5 extraordinary players, remaining are passengers. Indian cricket is in crisis now.

once we are knocked out of the WC after thw 1st round that will be the real crises- hope that gives BCCI some kick up the arse otherwise fans will start switching off

[Lord]

47 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Playing ODI like T20 cricket won't work...50 overs is a long time for that approach.

England proved it works

47 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

 

Lets analyzie our 2019 team approach that we took in the world cup. Rohit and Dhawan (later Rahul) used to see off the new ball and gave us a solid platform. The aim was to take the scoreline somewhere around 120/1 around 20 overs. 

 

Then its about strike rotation in middle overs until 40 overs which was done masterfully by Kohli, MS etc. The aim was to take the score somewhere around 250/4 in 40th over.

 

Then target around 80-90 runs in last 10 and most often than not we would post around 340 odd runs in 50 overs.

 

Lots of problems with this approach, firstly you are wasting powerplay in seeing off new ball and some times we are 10/3. Then it is based on assumption that middle and lower order will make up for slow start everytime. Leaving everything to last 10 overs where you can lose wickets while hitting

 

Anyway even if this approach works,340 is very chaseable score in ODIs these days. You are never batting out the opposition even if the approach works perfectly.

[rollingstoned]

55 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Been harping on this since 2016.  India wasted peak Bumrah and peak Kulcha, due to its batting tactics, and literally threw away its chance to compete for the 2019 ODI WC with bad team mgmt.  And they are well on course to repeat that failure with the humiliation of being the first host team in 15 years to fail to win the ODI WC.

2019 wc team and approach wasn't optimal but if you offered a situation like that to me right now where we are one of the favorites - with some clear holes in the batting - going into this one I'd bite your hand off. We look far more underwhelming going into this one with the same old batsmen now 4 yrs older or out of the team and having added only Siraj as a proper wicket taking option with no threatening leg spinners who are a lock in the team.

Edited July 30, 2023 by rollingstoned

[Lone Wolf]

I will say skill level of our players is not on par with world class sides. 

Fielding batting bowling we are not playing like a modern day team. 

 

How many reverse sweeps or slog sweeps or switch hits or scoops you see our players play?? 

Then how come we expect our players to dominate spinners of all kind. 

 

Bowling we all know the issues 

Fielding is poor fitness + attitude & hunger. 

[eulbninem]

1 hour ago, LordPrabhzy said:

once we are knocked out of the WC after thw 1st round that will be the real crises- hope that gives BCCI some kick up the arse otherwise fans will start switching off

You'd think that but fans will keep turning up to watch ipl and sadly that's all bcci cares about.

 

Eng ko'd in 2015 group stage and they changed everything to come back and win the WC.

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, Lord said:

Wrong : ODIs are extended T20s. England won a WC with that approach.

 

India is very conservative and plays ODIs like its still 2011.

 

Kimber summed it up

 

 

England did not win world cup based on that approach. They lucked out and second it was Stokes who led their chase with tail.

 

 

[eulbninem]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Lots of problems with this approach, firstly you are wasting powerplay in seeing off new ball and some times we are 10/3. Then it is based on assumption that middle and lower order will make up for slow start everytime. Leaving everything to last 10 overs where you can lose wickets while hitting

 

 

Exactly. When it mattered the most vs NZ, batting flopped. 

 

Top order had no answer for NZ swing bowling.

[Austin 3:!6]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

England proved it works

 

Lots of problems with this approach, firstly you are wasting powerplay in seeing off new ball and some times we are 10/3. Then it is based on assumption that middle and lower order will make up for slow start everytime. Leaving everything to last 10 overs where you can lose wickets while hitting

 

Anyway even if this approach works,340 is very chaseable score in ODIs these days. You are never batting out the opposition even if the approach works perfectly.

 

If we can't defend 340, it would be a fault of bowlers rather than batting failure. My only worry is, taking T20 approach in ODI will not even take us to 340. 

 

The way Gill and Kishan got out yesterday after getting a start was purely due to muscle memory kicking in based on T20 cricket.

[nevada]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

We are worse in T20s . Test team being kept afloat by 4-5 extraordinary players, remaining are passengers. Indian cricket is in crisis now.

A crisis caused by living in denial. Oldies wont go on their own, and selectors persist with them. Promising rookies are kept at arm's length. 

[Lord]

24 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

 

If we can't defend 340, it would be a fault of bowlers rather than batting failure. My only worry is, taking T20 approach in ODI will not even take us to 340. 

 

The way Gill and Kishan got out yesterday after getting a start was purely due to muscle memory kicking in based on T20 cricket.

 

And what muscle memory kicked in when Samson tamely gave a catch like tailender?

 

You are having problems with only two guys who scored.

[Lord]

34 minutes ago, putrevus said:

England did not win world cup based on that approach. They lucked out and second it was Stokes who led their chase with tail.

 

 

They got to the final on this approach in first place. Stokes also played by this approach as opposed to Thala who tuk tuked chasing similar score.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

They got to the final on this approach in first place. Stokes also played by this approach as opposed to Thala who tuk tuked chasing similar score.

No they did not get to finals based on that approach either. to have that approach you need flat wickets and long batting lineup.Only on flat wicket they had this approach.They lost 3 matches in league phase where as India with their conservative approach just lost one and topped the table.

 

Thala was playing in his last odi match and was old.Jadeja did his bit as Stokes but it fell short.Should Thala have done more  then answer is yes but I don't think he was capable.Prime time Dhoni would have sealed that match .Those matches were right in Dhoni's arc.

 

You cannot expect Indian team whose bowlers cannot bat a lick to have the same approach as England.

 

India batsmen along with bowlers who were unable to use the conditions were responsible for that semi final loss not their approach.

 

50 over cricket is not an extension t20. It still needs some sort batting ability and building of an innings., When it becomes an extension like England did on flat pancakes , it will be end of 50 over cricket.

 

Bowlers need to have their impact on the matches.

 

Luck also played a vital role in England winning their last two world cups. You need luck to win these tournaments which India had in 2007 and 2013.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by putrevus

[Vijy]

we are not good in any format right now; relatively speaking, the better one is tests