Team India's squad for Asia Cup Announced - KL, Shreyas back and Tilak Varma included

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Brilliant post !!

 

Ignoring this critical aspect you outlined is also one of the key reasons why we never produced ATG pacers before Bumrah. 

 

The Indian cricket fraternity always considered those pacers talented who could move the ball a bit and put them in the right areas against weaker batsmen, totally ignoring their pace and bounce. 

 

But come matches against big teams or big matches, the much superior batters or batters who are playing with intensity in big matches, totally massacred these slow pacers and did not allow them to put the ball in the right areas. So, the perceived accuracy is gone.

 

And these gentle bowlers could not put the opponent batters under psychological pressure either by bowling hostile spells. 

 

But stiil they remained the "talented" pacers by displaying their "art" against weak teams or in inconsequential matches.

 

 

 

P.S -- Very high quality debate with @rollingstoned , who has put forward some good points too.

let's remember prabhakar for instance. considered one of the more talented ODI bowlers of that time from India (his ODI bowling record is pretty good on the surface), his limitations were brutally exposed by Jayasuria

[rollingstoned]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

Ignoring this critical aspect you outlined is also one of the key reasons why we never produced ATG pacers before Bumrah. 

 

The Indian cricket fraternity always considered those pacers talented who could move the ball a bit and put them in the right areas against weaker batsmen, totally ignoring their pace and bounce. 

 

But come matches against big teams or big matches, the much superior batters or batters who are playing with intensity in big matches, totally massacred these slow pacers and did not allow them to put the ball in the right areas. So, the perceived accuracy is gone.

 

And these gentle bowlers could not put the opponent batters under psychological pressure either by bowling hostile spells. 

 

But stiil they remained the "talented" pacers by displaying their "art" against weak teams or in inconsequential matches.

You are right but I would argue that most of the bygone TM's and selectors definition of talent in this case was itself faulty who didn't back the right horses for the most part. They considered the ability to swing the ball at gentle pace, maintain line and length and bowl cutters as being a vanishingly rare skill which it never was anywhere in the world since such bowlers are found quite frequently. It is this criteria which never allowed them to truly appreciate and get the most out of real fast bowling talents in India who might have shown up and delivered on their promise ie Pathan, Srinath, Agarkar, Nehra l, Sreesanth, Rp singh etc since they had no idea what to do with them. 

It doesn't matter how mentally tough the likes of Dodda Ganesh or Debashish Mohanty might have been, it would never have been good enough and the team strategy would have needed prioritising consistently outbatting the opposition to cover for it. 

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

You are right but I would argue that most of the bygone TM's and selectors definition of talent in this case was itself faulty who didn't back the right horses for the most part. They considered the ability to swing the ball at gentle pace, maintain line and length and bowl cutters as being a vanishingly rare skill which it never was anywhere in the world since such bowlers are found quite frequently. It is this criteria which never allowed them to truly appreciate and get the most out of real fast bowling talents in India who might have shown up and delivered on their promise ie Pathan, Srinath, Agarkar, Nehra l, Sreesanth, Rp singh etc since they had no idea what to do with them. 

 

I was saying the same thing.

 

3 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

It doesn't matter how mentally tough the likes of Dodda Ganesh or Debashish Mohanty might have been, it would never have been good enough and the team strategy would have needed prioritising consistently outbatting the opposition to cover for it. 

 

What @AKane said was that the ability to deliver results at the top level against big teams is the actual talent at that level. 

 

Mental strength is just one aspect but not the only one to achieve the above.

 

Ganesh and Mohanty lacked the other aspects, that is pace and bounce. 

[tweaker]

As per reports, KL Rahul has cleared the fitness test and is all set for selection in the Asia Cup!

[express bowling]

Just now, tweaker said:

As per reports, KL Rahul has cleared the fitness test and is all set for selection in the Asia Cup!

 

Every silver lining  ( Bumrah and Prasidh returning )  has a cloud.   

[Vijy]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Every silver lining  ( Bumrah and Prasidh returning )  has a cloud.   

a big cloud in this case. we need dhawan to return as well

[AKane]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

Ganesh and Mohanty lacked the other aspects, that is pace and bounce. 

When I posted in the past to the newsgroup rec dot sport dot cricket before it went to the dogs.....a couple of Indians there had this measure of minimum fast bowling effectiveness. This is for a regular ball bowled and of course for taller bowlers they can do this with slower speed but for shorter bowlers they will need more speed.

 

"If a pace bowler bowling at good length with a ball that has lost shine cannot raise the ball to pass over stump height - he is basically useless."  

 

 

[Vijy]

20 minutes ago, AKane said:

When I posted in the past to the newsgroup rec dot sport dot cricket before it went to the dogs.....a couple of Indians there had this measure of minimum fast bowling effectiveness. This is for a regular ball bowled and of course for taller bowlers they can do this with slower speed but for shorter bowlers they will need more speed.

 

"If a pace bowler bowling at good length with a ball that has lost shine cannot raise the ball to pass over stump height - he is basically useless."  

 

 

yes, it had to do with release point.

[raki05]

I want Kela to get selected in Asia cup so that him and Dravid get exposed badly, want max number of seniors gets selected in Asia cup likeSharma, Kohli, Kela, Pandya, Mukesh, Unadkat so that we loose against pak, srl  probably bd and afg too so that these besharm take vrs just before wc.

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, raki05 said:

I want Kela to get selected in Asia cup so that him and Dravid get exposed badly, want max number of seniors gets selected in Asia cup likeSharma, Kohli, Kela, Pandya, Mukesh, Unadkat so that we loose against pak, srl  probably bd and afg too so that these besharm take vrs just before wc.

need dhawan, boobi, etc back too. As I wrote elsewhere, dravidiot's fantasy XI is as follows:

 

dhawan

fatman

brat

rahane

kela (wk)

pandu

jaddu

undercutter

boobi

mukesh

chahal

[tweaker]

7 hours ago, Vijy said:

need dhawan, boobi, etc back too. As I wrote elsewhere, dravidiot's fantasy XI is as follows:

 

dhawan

fatman

brat

rahane

kela (wk)

pandu

jaddu

undercutter

boobi

mukesh

chahal

Fantasy can turn real

[Suhaan]

7 hours ago, Vijy said:

need dhawan, boobi, etc back too. As I wrote elsewhere, dravidiot's fantasy XI is as follows:

 

dhawan

fatman

brat

rahane

kela (wk)

pandu

jaddu

undercutter

boobi

mukesh

chahal

You forgot Sakaria, without him everything is incomplete, he's the missing piece

 

[jf1gp_1]

On 8/5/2023 at 1:57 AM, Vijy said:

let's remember prabhakar for instance. considered one of the more talented ODI bowlers of that time from India (his ODI bowling record is pretty good on the surface), his limitations were brutally exposed by Jayasuria

Brian Lara avg under 35 in test against India doesnt translate to our bowling lineup being best in that era

[jf1gp_1]

12 hours ago, raki05 said:

I want Kela to get selected in Asia cup so that him and Dravid get exposed badly, want max number of seniors gets selected in Asia cup likeSharma, Kohli, Kela, Pandya, Mukesh, Unadkat so that we loose against pak, srl  probably bd and afg too so that these besharm take vrs just before wc.

On the contrary, i feel if KL is selected for Asia cup he will break down after few games. 

[Frustrated]

2 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

On the contrary, i feel if KL is selected for Asia cup he will break down after few games. 

In biology, we studied that Kela has lots of protein & carbohydrate.   But this Kela (who is basically dravid's chela) is different.  Does not last long.  

Edited August 6, 2023 by Frustrated

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Brian Lara avg under 35 in test against India doesnt translate to our bowling lineup being best in that era

 

Prabhakar averaged 37 in tests snd 29 in ODIs as a bowler.

 

So, he wasn't that good a bowler overall either. Not a case of just that game.

[express bowling]

12 hours ago, Vijy said:

need dhawan, boobi, etc back too. As I wrote elsewhere, dravidiot's fantasy XI is as follows:

 

dhawan

fatman

brat

rahane

kela (wk)

pandu

jaddu

undercutter

boobi

mukesh

chahal

 

4 hours ago, tweaker said:

Fantasy can turn real

 

 

 

Irony is that 9 of these 11 players are currently playing for India and Boobi played till a few months back.

Edited August 6, 2023 by express bowling

[express bowling]

12 hours ago, Vijy said:

 

undercutter

boobi

mukesh

 

4 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Sakaria,

 

Plus Shardul, Chahar, Mavi

 

What will we do with so much happiness  !!!!

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Plus Shardul, Chahar, Mavi

 

What will we do with so much happiness  !!!!

pass out from all the high speed pace they deliver

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

 

Irony is that 9 of these 11 players are currently playing for India and Boobi played till a few months back.

yes, other 2 will be back soon too