Why the great Shakib Al Hasan has never won Bangladesh an Asia Cup?

[vvvslaxman]

6 hours ago, Lord said:

 

That is some random bilateral. I'm talking about must win games in multi nation tourneys. What has he delivered in them?

 

I'm not even talking about winning matches, just his own performance. 

 

WC 2015 QF : 10(34)

2017 CT SF : 15(18)

Asia Cup T20 failed in final in 2016

WT20 too I don't remember any.

 

Perhaps only good knock is in Asia Cup Final back in 2012.

 

He looks good but others in his team are worse. But he hasn't stood up in important games. If he does and they still lose, thats a different thing.

 

WC 2015 QF? lol  BD was nowhere in that game. What did our Mahartis do chasing 300 plus against Australia. What did our guys do in CT 2017 final with much much stronger team. You are expecting him to pull off a miracle singlehandedly chasing 300 after being 2 down.  There is no way in hell Stokes would have won any of those games. He did play the final against West Indies. What did he do? He lost the match singlehandedly with his bowling.  

[sadib10]

Probably one of the unluckiest cricketers ever. Got dealt with chokers & losers everywhere around him. In 2019 WC we had a captain who was playing based on seniority & captaincy, got 1 wicket in 8 games lol. It’s kind of been the trend his whole career, either chokers like Mushfiqur & Mahmudullah failed to get 2 runs from 3 balls or some losers decided to score 15 from 50+ balls in asia cup final. He is still just one player & I wouldn’t swap him for anyone really but he'd swap BD if given the chance in a heartbeat & rightfully so

[Lord]

10 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

WC 2015 QF? lol  BD was nowhere in that game. What did our Mahartis do chasing 300 plus against Australia. What did our guys do in CT 2017 final with much much stronger team. You are expecting him to pull off a miracle singlehandedly chasing 300 after being 2 down.  There is no way in hell Stokes would have won any of those games. He did play the final against West Indies. What did he do? He lost the match singlehandedly with his bowling.  

 

Are you intentionally misreading? I specifically said I'm not talking about winning games but his own contribution even if its in a loss.

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Are you intentionally misreading? I specifically said I'm not talking about winning games but his own contribution even if its in a loss.

 

In a massive chase against a side like India just statpadding just to prove "hey i did my bit"  and lose is as bad as not contributing at all. BD has tons and tons of such failures. So it is easy to pick a match where he failed and bD also failed. He is an all rounder. Hard to contribut with ball and bat consistently. Tendoschate's team probably didnt' win anything. But we can't call him poor based on that.

[Lord]

34 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

In a massive chase against a side like India just statpadding just to prove "hey i did my bit"  and lose is as bad as not contributing at all. BD has tons and tons of such failures. So it is easy to pick a match where he failed and bD also failed. He is an all rounder. Hard to contribut with ball and bat consistently. Tendoschate's team probably didnt' win anything. But we can't call him poor based on that.

 

No I didn't search for all games, just must win/knockouts. Might have missed on some. He might have done well in league games/bilaterals but thats not the point.

 

He could have tried to atleast put up a fight.

 

I didn't call him poor. But he's indeed been nothing but poor when stakes are high as compared to hype he gets.

[Nikhil_cric]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:49 PM, Lord said:

 

No I didn't search for all games, just must win/knockouts. Might have missed on some. He might have done well in league games/bilaterals but thats not the point.

 

He could have tried to atleast put up a fight.

 

I didn't call him poor. But he's indeed been nothing but poor when stakes are high as compared to hype he gets.

Shakib is one of the few reasons BD even reaches the knockout stages at times. You can't keep relying on the same players to get you through an entire tournament, especially when said player is also captaining most of the time. What did Bairstow do in the 2019 knockout matches in semis and final? Stunk the join with 2 poor knocks.  Morgan and Root were pretty average too.

 

And England had the bowlers and Roy turn up in the semis and Stokes and Buttler in the final.

 

But without 2 quality tons by Bairstow against NZ and India in must-win games, England wouldn't have made the knockouts in the first place.

 

Blaming Shakib is akin to blaming Tendulkar for World Cup failures like that fixed semifinal vs. Sri Lanka in 1996, where Azhar and Jadeja threw the game.

 

Choosing to chase, picking rubbish Ashish Kapoor over Raju, introducing him before Kumble, bowling Sri for 7 overs straight in that heat and humidity, bowling Kumble at the death and bowling 5 overs of Jadeja rubbish in the middle overs, not finishing Sri(best bowler) and Venky's quota, Azhar giving a lollipop return catch. Jadeja playing an 11-ball duck. 

 

And then everyone blamed the 22-year-old guy who took 2/34 in 10 overs and was the highest scorer.

 

Unless you have 15 players of reasonably high quality in the squad, no team can win tournaments

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord]

4 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Shakib is one of the few reasons BD even reaches the knockout stages at times. You can't keep relying on the same players to get you through an entire tournament, especially when said player is also captaining most of the time. What did Bairstow do in the 2019 knockout matches in semis and final? Stunk the join with 2 poor knocks.  Morgan and Root were pretty average too.

 

And England had the bowlers and Roy turn up in the semis and Stokes and Buttler in the final.

 

But without 2 quality tons by Bairstow against NZ and India in must-win games, England wouldn't have made the knockouts in the first place.

 

Blaming Shakib is akin to blaming Tendulkar for World Cup failures like that fixed semifinal vs. Sri Lanka in 1996, where Azhar and Jadeja threw the game.

 

Choosing to chase, picking rubbish Ashish Kapoor over Raju, introducing him before Kumble, bowling Sri for 7 overs straight in that heat and humidity, bowling Kumble at the death and bowling 5 overs of Jadeja rubbish in the middle overs, not finishing Sri(best bowler) and Venky's quota, Azhar giving a lollipop return catch. Jadeja playing an 11-ball duck. 

 

And then everyone blamed the 22-year-old guy who took 2/34 in 10 overs and was the highest scorer.

 

Unless you have 15 players of reasonably high quality in the squad, no team can win tournaments

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said earlier, I'm not asking him to win knockout games but some contribution as a premier player even if team loses. Big players have to show fight in such games.Ofcourse no one is saying he's trash and taking team to knockouts is good in itself.

[putrevus]

According to many Pakistanis 1996 world cup qtrfinals was fixed by Pakistan and Akram that is why India won that match .That is quite understandable coming from those idiots who always think Pakistan cannot lose unless match is fixed

 

I am trying to understand some geniuses here who are no less idiots than those Pakistanis.

 

Tendulkar does not do much in Qtr finals and Jadeja blasts Waqar to play a vital role in India wining that crucial match.

 

But in semifinals Azhar and Jadeja suddenly decide to fix the match after Sl were reeling at 3/35 in the same match.

 

It is such an insult to SL who were clearly the best team in the tournament. Why fix only semis, why not  fix finals.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by putrevus

[putrevus]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Lord said:

 

That is some random bilateral. I'm talking about must win games in multi nation tourneys. What has he delivered in them?

 

I'm not even talking about winning matches, just his own performance. 

 

WC 2015 QF : 10(34)

2017 CT SF : 15(18)

Asia Cup T20 failed in final in 2016

WT20 too I don't remember any.

 

Perhaps only good knock is in Asia Cup Final back in 2012.

 

He looks good but others in his team are worse. But he hasn't stood up in important games. If he does and they still lose, thats a different thing.

May be the pressure of whole country in knockout matches is weighing him down.But he is a very good talent, he would have done very well if he was playing for bigger teams.

[Nikhil_cric]

17 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

As I said earlier, I'm not asking him to win knockout games but some contribution as a premier player even if team loses. Big players have to show fight in such games.Ofcourse no one is saying he's trash and taking team to knockouts is good in itself.

This thread is about Asia cups though. In 2012 Asia Cup, he carried BD into the finals and took 2/39 in 10 overs and then scored 68 off 72 when the whole middle order failed against chucker Hafeez and chucker Ajmal.

 

He did play for BD but apart from Tamim, the rest of that lineup was useless. 

 

Played only 2 50 over knockouts after that. Against India in 2015 and 2017

 

Played only 1 T20 knockout - Asia cup final 2016.

 

Scored 21 off 16 in a 15 over game. 2nd highest scoer after Mahmudullah and until Dhoni's murderous hitting, it looked like they were winning.

 

That's an OK record for someone who carries the entire team in both formats and with bat and ball.

[Nikhil_cric]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

According to many Pakistanis 1996 world cup qtrfinals was fixed by Pakistan and Akram that is why India won that match .That is quite understandable coming from those idiots who always think Pakistan cannot lose unless match is fixed

 

I am trying to understand some geniuses here who are no less idiots than those Pakistanis.

 

Tendulkar does not do much in Qtr finals and Jadeja blasts Waqar to play a vital role in India wining that crucial match.

 

But in semifinals Azhar and Jadeja suddenly decide to fix the match after Sl were reeling at 3/35 in the same match.

 

It is such an insult to SL who were clearly the best team in the tournament. Why fix only semis, why not  fix finals.

 

 

Jadeja was sent to open to fix primarily. You really need to read up on our cricket history and how Jadeja admitted to the CBI that he fixed 1999 Pepsi Cup match in Jaipur etc.   Keep in mind, you are defending a player who played atrocious knocks despite his obvious ability.

 

Like this one

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-centenary-tournament-1994-95-60967/india-vs-south-africa-3rd-match-66020/full-scorecard

 

Between Prabhakar and Jadeja being sent to open in that period, they played exceptionally scummy knocks and killed momentum.

 

Why do you think Jadeja who had not bowled in the previous 2 years suddenly bowled in the World Cup vs Kenya? And after batting at 6 in the previous bilateral series vs NZ started opening in the World Cup?

 

 

 

[putrevus]

37 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Jadeja was sent to open to fix primarily. You really need to read up on our cricket history and how Jadeja admitted to the CBI that he fixed 1999 Pepsi Cup match in Jaipur etc.   Keep in mind, you are defending a player who played atrocious knocks despite his obvious ability.

 

Like this one

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-centenary-tournament-1994-95-60967/india-vs-south-africa-3rd-match-66020/full-scorecard

 

Between Prabhakar and Jadeja being sent to open in that period, they played exceptionally scummy knocks and killed momentum.

 

Why do you think Jadeja who had not bowled in the previous 2 years suddenly bowled in the World Cup vs Kenya? And after batting at 6 in the previous bilateral series vs NZ started opening in the World Cup?

 

 

 

I am not defending anybody. I know more than you about cricket history. But I am not stupid enough to believe and discredit the win of opposition team based on some idiotic assumption.

 

Jadeja and Azhar might have fixed many things or done many things but I can say it with 100% certainity they did no such thing in that semifinals.

 

How do you equate a match in 1999 to semifinals in 1996. India lost the match as they were not good enough to handle Jayasurya over the wicket line while batting and bowlers  like Kumble could not ram home the advanatge after having them down at 3/35.

 

Arvinda played a brilliant knock under pressure.

 

Not every lost match is a fixed match. India were an atroicous side in 1990s.

Edited September 21, 2023 by putrevus