How is India still producing cricketers like Arshdeep Singh?

[randomGuy]

On 11/23/2023 at 11:32 PM, Nash said:

Gujju quota players : hardik axar bumrah Jadeja 

punju quota player : arshdeep ?

 

gujju quota is superior.  

He doesn't know what he is talking about. Gujju cricketers are guns.

[srgadjon]

You cant judge a bowler based on T20 and that too on a patta wicket, where even 210 was chased. The average run rate was 10 RPO in both innings, how do you expect a bowler to do miracles on such pitches ? T20s are basically for batsmen to score boundaries, cant be too harsh on bowlers.

[G_B_]

How does the pitch being batsman friendly take away the fact that he is a terrible fielder , cant bat and has poor situational awareness?

 

See in key games you cant have a weak link. 

 

 

[G_B_]

Was watching highlights of the 2007 t20 wc.

 

We fielded like animals. Not a weak link in the side.

 

See i dont expect pacers to bat. But atleast field well? You might not bat every game but you will field no matter what.

 

Where is the fielding coach in all of this. You are only as good as your weskest link.

[G_B_]

India need 8 batters.

 

We can afford to carry 3 bowlers or number 11s.

 

Atm we dont have batsman who cant turn their arm like a sehwag or raina. Bowlers who can bat like a Agarkar or Irfan pathan. 

 

Where is the Indian travis head? 

 

 

[Nash]

2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

He doesn't know what he is talking about. Gujju cricketers are guns.

No worries and I was just joking also.  I don’t compare any two states.  It is Indian team no matter who plays all are same for me.  

[IndianRenegade]

2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Was watching highlights of the 2007 t20 wc.

 

We fielded like animals. Not a weak link in the side.

 

See i dont expect pacers to bat. But atleast field well? You might not bat every game but you will field no matter what.

 

Where is the fielding coach in all of this. You are only as good as your weskest link.

Same with 2011 WC finals we killed the game in the first few overs with some awesome fielding effort, this time it was Australia killing it on the field. its kind a of a precursor to what is to come.

[deathmonger]

7 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

but we dont have enough quality ARs..

Develop them that's the point.

[deathmonger]

5 hours ago, G_B_ said:

India need 8 batters.

 

We can afford to carry 3 bowlers or number 11s.

 

Atm we dont have batsman who cant turn their arm like a sehwag or raina. Bowlers who can bat like a Agarkar or Irfan pathan. 

 

Where is the Indian travis head? 

 

 

9 tbh.

 

Aim should be in this decade to produce lots of ARs.

 

Tilak, Sundar etc should be heavily invested in. Raj Bawa too.

[MediumPacer]

6 hours ago, G_B_ said:

India need 8 batters.

 

We can afford to carry 3 bowlers or number 11s.

 

Atm we dont have batsman who cant turn their arm like a sehwag or raina. Bowlers who can bat like a Agarkar or Irfan pathan. 

 

Where is the Indian travis head? 

 

 

Don't want too many allrounders,they make everything mediocre.Maybe 2 all-rounders at 7 and 8.That too ,they have to be in good form.

 

Ideally want 2 high quality bowlers who can bat at 8 or 9.

 

The other thing in our conditions top order batting is too easy ,so lower order middle order doesn't get much exposure.

[MediumPacer]

We are going from one extreme to another in search of allrounders.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

Don't want too many allrounders,they make everything mediocre.Maybe 2 all-rounders at 7 and 8.That too ,they have to be in good form.

 

Ideally want 2 high quality bowlers who can bat at 8 or 9.

 

The other thing in our conditions top order batting is too easy ,so lower order middle order doesn't get much exposure.

 

 

Exactly  !

 

We need high quality bowlers who can bat somewhat at 8 and 9 .. like Cummins, Warne, Marshall etc. And top order batters who can bowl somewhat .. like Sehwag, Ganguly etc. 

 

Make the proper bowlers practice batting. And proper batters practice bowling 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

We are going from one extreme to another in search of allrounders.

 

Yes.  It will bring in bits and pieces players instead of all-rounders  ( as there are very few true all-rounders available )

[Need4Speed]

2 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Develop them that's the point.

a balance is needed..if ARs are as good as specialist then I am fine..else we need those type of ARs..whose primary skill is as good as specialist..we need:

 

5 specialist battters-2 can bowl as secondary skill

1 specialist wk batter

5 specialist bowlers

out of 5 bowlers..1 decent bat and 1 secondary skill batter..

or 2 secondary skill batters..and good enough tail..

 

or 6 specialist batter-2 can bowl as secondary skill

1 wk batter

4 specialist bowler--1 bowler with batting as secondary skill and decent tail..

those 4 specialist bowlers needto be all gun bowlers..so we can get away with a supporting 5th bowler

Edited November 26, 2023 by Need4Speed

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

Don't want too many allrounders,they make everything mediocre.Maybe 2 all-rounders at 7 and 8.That too ,they have to be in good form.

 

Ideally want 2 high quality bowlers who can bat at 8 or 9.

 

The other thing in our conditions top order batting is too easy ,so lower order middle order doesn't get much exposure.

It depends on what's our expectation for an "allrounder"...our judgment often gets clouded due to the bits & pieces players we have in our team. For ex. Jadeja who is not a no 6 in ODI/T20..but can easily play at no 8.

 

Someone who is batting at no 7..I would atleast expect him to be a 6-8 over bowler and give me 30-40 runs with bat. Shaun Pollock, Darren Sammy, Chris Harris, Washington Sundar etc. Hardik is also a no. 7 but for some reason he sees himself more as a batter, while his stronger suit is bowling.

 

For a no8, criteria is he should be a 8-10 over bowler and score atleast 20-30 runs with bat. Chris Woakes, Philander, Bhajji, Jadeja, Ashwin are ideal no 8.

 

No 9-11 should be pure bowlers...but if my 9 jas ability to make 10-20 runs and tonk few hits as well...any score of 15(10) or 17(12) is fine with me. Akram, Swann, Brett Lee, Southee etc are the ideal no 9...pure bowlers who can bat decently.

 

No 10 & 11, frankly no expectations..but they atleast should be able to rotate the strike. Our current crop of Bumrah, Shami, Kuldeep, Bhuvi etc are all no 10..while likes of Prasidh, Siraj, Arshdeep, Mukesh etc are hopeless no 11's.

[singhvivek141]

41 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Yes.  It will bring in bits and pieces players instead of all-rounders  ( as there are very few true all-rounders available )

That's why a clear distinguish need to be made

 

Batting Allrounders (proper batters who can bowl 2-6 overs)

Tilak Varma

Jaiswal

Abhishek Sharma

Venkatesh Iyer

 

True Allrounders (who can score 30-50 runs and give us 6-8 overs)

Hardik Pandya

Raj Bawa (potentially)

Washington Sundar (potentially)

Arshin Kulkarni (potentially)

 

 Bowling Allrounders ( who can score 20-40 and give me 8-10 overs)

Harshit Rana

Rajvardhan Hangargekar

Ravi Jadeja

Ravi Ashwin 

Yudhvir Singh

Gurnoor Brar (potentially)

 

Bowlers who can bat (pure bowlers who can bat a bit for 10-20 runs with big hitting ability, no compromise on bowling).

Rahul Chahar

Ravi Bishnoi (potentially)

Kartik Tyagi (potentially)

Mohsin Khan (potentially)

 

Team should have atleast

1. Batter

2. Batter

3. Batter

4. Batter/wk

5. Batter/Finisher

6. Batting Allrounder

7. True Allrounder

8. Bowling Allrounder

9. Bowler who can bat

10. Bowler/Bowler who can bat

11. Bowler

 

7 Bowling options (atleast) & batting ability till 9/10..it will allow the non-selfish batters to play without much fear.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by singhvivek141

[MediumPacer]

18 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

It depends on what's our expectation for an "allrounder"...our judgment often gets clouded due to the bits & pieces players we have in our team. For ex. Jadeja who is not a no 6 in ODI/T20..but can easily play at no 8.

 

Someone who is batting at no 7..I would atleast expect him to be a 6-8 over bowler and give me 30-40 runs with bat. Shaun Pollock, Darren Sammy, Chris Harris, Washington Sundar etc. Hardik is also a no. 7 but for some reason he sees himself more as a batter, while his stronger suit is bowling.

 

For a no8, criteria is he should be a 8-10 over bowler and score atleast 20-30 runs with bat. Chris Woakes, Philander, Bhajji, Jadeja, Ashwin are ideal no 8.

 

No 9-11 should be pure bowlers...but if my 9 jas ability to make 10-20 runs and tonk few hits as well...any score of 15(10) or 17(12) is fine with me. Akram, Swann, Brett Lee, Southee etc are the ideal no 9...pure bowlers who can bat decently.

 

No 10 & 11, frankly no expectations..but they atleast should be able to rotate the strike. Our current crop of Bumrah, Shami, Kuldeep, Bhuvi etc are all no 10..while likes of Prasidh, Siraj, Arshdeep, Mukesh etc are hopeless no 11's.

I would rather go for starc and Cummins at 8 and 9 ,than woakes ,Willey ,Curran or hardik.

 

Maybe in t20s you can pick more all-rounders down the order, but not in odis.

[singhvivek141]

Just now, MediumPacer said:

I would rather go for starc and Cummins at 8 and 9 ,than woakes ,Willey ,Curran or hardik.

 

Maybe in t20s you can pick more all-rounders down the order, but not in odis.

Cummins is a proper no 8, Starc also is a proper Brett Lee level batter. Both are better bat than Shardul who we play as our allrounder. 

 

If we get guys like them in India...Cummins will bat at no 7 & Starc at no 8.

[MediumPacer]

17 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

That's why a clear distinguish need to be made

 

Batting Allrounders (proper batters who can bowl 2-6 overs)

Tilak Varma

Jaiswal

Abhishek Sharma

Venkatesh Iyer

 

True Allrounders (who can score 30-50 runs and give us 6-8 overs)

Hardik Pandya

Raj Bawa (potentially)

Washington Sundar (potentially)

Arshin Kulkarni (potentially)

 

 Bowling Allrounders ( who can score 20-40 and give me 8-10 overs)

Harshit Rana

Rajvardhan Hangargekar

Ravi Jadeja

Ravi Ashwin 

Yudhvir Singh

Gurnoor Brar (potentially)

 

Bowlers who can bat (pure bowlers who can bat a bit for 10-20 runs with big hitting ability, no compromise on bowling).

Rahul Chahar

Ravi Bishnoi (potentially)

Kartik Tyagi (potentially)

Mohsin Khan (potentially)

 

Team should have atleast

1. Batter

2. Batter

3. Batter

4. Batter/wk

5. Batter/Finisher

6. Batting Allrounder

7. True Allrounder

8. Bowling Allrounder

9. Bowler who can bat

10. Bowler/Bowler who can bat

11. Bowler

 

7 Bowling options (atleast) & batting ability till 9/10..it will allow the non-selfish batters to play without much fear.

 

Are they all-rounders or bowlers who can bat a bit or batsmen who are part timers.

[MediumPacer]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

Cummins is a proper no 8, Starc also is a proper Brett Lee level batter. Both are better bat than Shardul who we play as our allrounder. 

 

If we get guys like them in India...Cummins will bat at no 7 & Starc at no 8.

Don't want to burden them too much,I would first sort out the 5 batsmen and 4 bowlers , because they have to be the core of the team,and then improve their out cricket but the difficult part is to find the no 8 and 9.

 

The all rounder if found can then fit in.