New guy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kron said: Me? I am far from being someone who is pro Anglo propaganda. Infact I am openly racist towards them. I am like the furthest you can possibly be from being a pro white dog. I am absolutely not diminishing sacchus skills. He would be the best batsman in any era post 70s. But my point is he wouldn't average 60 plus. It would be under 60. 55 to 60. I have watched his games at his peak. https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;page=2;player_involve=1775;player_involve=1935;player_involve=2011;player_involve=2101;player_involve=2168;player_involve=2228;spanmax1=31+Dec+1999;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting Btw this is his performance against top ranked bowlers of 90s. Mcgrath fleming (who really dint play enough nor do I consider him in the upper echelon but I will let it pass) Waqar wasim Pollock and donald He averaged a measly 33 in games involving these players. I compared that to Brian Charles and he averaged 41. Even guys like ganguly, tilakaratne, Atherton Chris Cairns, Jayasuriya, thorpe and even Andy flower averaged better. And absolutely not. That's the whole point. You just proved my point. I said they had one great batsman in 2018 with ABd and they made life difficult for Australia and India as we both lost in SA cause of one batsman with their bowling attack. Imagine I'd they had their 90s batting unit supporting their current or peak steyn era bowling attack. They would wreak havoc just as much if not more cause they are BETTER than their 90s attack. Only a past romanticising, nostalgic, old is gold and past loving individual would say otherwise. Lol this is the perfect example for manipulating stats to drive an agenda. Correlation doesn't infer causation. Just because a player was "involved" in a match doesn't mean he made any impact, the bowler would have gone for 100 runs but Sachin got out to some other bowler on the first ball. In most of these matches he didn't even get out to those bowlers, he was often playing them comfortably and then got out to other bowlers. But that doesn't show in the stats. But but but they were present in the opposition you guys... Doesn't the very fact that Jayasuriya, tilakratne and thrope averages better than him give you a clue that your inference in wrong? Do you really belive that Sachin was inferior than Jayasuriya and Thorpe. I mean your data shows Amre above Sachin and around 10 spot above Dravid. Do you belive he was better against ATG bowlers than these 2 bats? The very first thing they teach you in stat class is that of your inference throws such an anomaly then question your inference If you are the person who believes Jayasuriya and Thorpe were better batsmen against goat bowlers then are you even capable of having this debate? And you are claiming you watched him. All of your logic leaps lack critical thinking here, Mulo is just wasting his time. Edited April 27 by New guy JaFanatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kron Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, New guy said: Lol this is the perfect example for manipulating stats to drive an agenda. Correlation doesn't infer causation. Just because a player was "involved" in a match doesn't mean he made any impact, the bowler would have gone for 100 runs but Sachin got out to some other bowler on the first ball. In most of these matches he didn't even get out to those bowlers, he was often playing them comfortably and then got out to other bowlers. But that doesn't show in the stats. But but but they were present in the opposition you guys... Doesn't the very fact that Jayasuriya, tilakratne and thrope averages better than him give you a clue that your inference in wrong? Do you really belive that Sachin was inferior than Jayasuriya and Thorpe. I mean your data shows Amre above Sachin and around 10 spot above Dravid. Do you belive he was better against ATG bowlers than these 2 bats? The very first thing they teach you in stat class is that of your inference throws such an anomaly then question your inference If you are the person who believes Jayasuriya and Thorpe were better batsmen against goat bowlers then are you even capable of having this debate? And you are claiming you watched him. All of your logic leaps lack critical thinking here, Mulo is just wasting his time. But those weren't a small sample. Jayasuriya played 17 games. So did thorpe and a few others. I dont believe they are better than Sachin. Infact I did say how many times now? Sachin is the best. He is probably as good as Smith or even better but I don't see him averaging over 60 in post 2014 era. That was my whole point. I am just saying bowling attacks, pace bowlers are better than 90s overall. 90s bowlers benefitted from the rules. Lot of current bowling attacks outside big 3 and nz have weak batting units. It's laughable that mulo claims current sa attack wouldn't benefit from having a world class batting unit to support them. Does he truly believe current SA attacks wouldn't wreak as much havoc if not more than what they would in 90s if they had a bunch of world class batsmen to support them? They would massacre teams. Remember we struggled and so did Australia with Cummins starc hazlrwood at peak in SA to win A series. Thwarted by one great batsman in abd. Just imagine if this SA attack had guys like peak kirsten, kalis, cullinan etc playing for them now. They would mutilate every team barring true goat sides. The bowling attacks of 90s were great but the overall unit lacked depth in pace. I am not talking about spinners. Just pacers. Sachin in current team post 2014 to 2022 indian side would have demolished attacks because he can play with confidence knowing he has the bowling attack to dismantle teams. Imagine the intensity the Indian quicks would bowl with if they know they have the calibre of players like Tendulkar kohli pant pujara prime etc supporting them. But sachins performances against the premium bowlers has been poor and many stats have proven that in 90s. The only reason why I don't think he will touch 60 in post 2014 era. Definitely would be the best still but with an average over 55 and just under 60. You can say whatever you want but he has always had issued vs the top Bowlers of the 90s era. When mcgrath plays his figures look different. When Pollock and donald play, he struggles. When wasim and Waqar played he struggled. Sure he was young at the time but they weren't at their peak either. 2000 era were some if the flattest pitches ever and every tom dick and Harry made merry. It's a joke era mostly. Talking about 90s era specifically, pace Bowlers looked better than they are cause of some absolute treacherous pitches. Like the west indies ones etc. What mulo is not understanding is the rules and environment etc plus no drs made those bowlers look better than they actually are. If those same bowlers played in modern era post 2014 their figures would be slightly worse. You cant overstep and bowl as no balsl will be called. You cant get home umpiring in your favour. Teams will analyse you in depth. Find weaknesses due to advancement in technology. You are expected to play for the win. There are time limits now. Can't dilly dally to play for draw. Edited April 27 by Kron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 9 hours ago, Kron said: Yea I get that but my point was that 90s bowlers aren't better than current lot. I don't feel that way at all. Pace bowlers only I mean. Not talking about spin. Post 2014 era all big 5 teams had equal or better bowlig units than their predecessors in 90s. I do agree Sri Lankas and West indies are fodder now but even in 90s Lanka never won a test in India. They had a chucker. Like number 1 and 2 bowlers across both era's are equal but the depth is better now amongst big teams. 3rd and 4th bowling options are better. Talking about pace only. pace is probably somewhat better, but spin is far worse. likes of raju were better than jaddu, who would be regarded as a top 3 spinner today. Kron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kron Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 35 minutes ago, Vijy said: pace is probably somewhat better, but spin is far worse. likes of raju were better than jaddu, who would be regarded as a top 3 spinner today. Agreed with that. Kumble would be 23 24 averaging bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaFanatic Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 No Mayank today. Hopefully his recovery is in good progress. express bowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 43 minutes ago, Vijy said: pace is probably somewhat better, but spin is far worse. likes of raju were better than jaddu, who would be regarded as a top 3 spinner today. Raju better than Jaddu? That's rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediumPacer Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 54 minutes ago, Vijy said: pace is probably somewhat better, but spin is far worse. likes of raju were better than jaddu, who would be regarded as a top 3 spinner today. Raju was quite ordinary, wouldn't have made it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 29 minutes ago, JaFanatic said: No Mayank today. Hopefully his recovery is in good progress. Yup, he will make good progress once IPL is over. Just like Tyagi is bowling only at empty wickets in the nets. Mayank too will do the same. Everyone hates a youngster who can steal the limelight. He completely took over the game vs PBKS and vs RCB. express bowling, Vijy, JaFanatic and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 20 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Raju better than Jaddu? That's rubbish. give raju DRS, crappy batters, and the raging turners that jaddu has. even as it stands, he is almost on par with Jaddu at home. Kron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 9 minutes ago, MediumPacer said: Raju was quite ordinary, wouldn't have made it now. he was ordinary overseas, which was common to a lot of spinners. at home, he was quite lethal even without DRS, poor batting techniques of today, and the raging turners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 hour ago, Vijy said: pace is probably somewhat better, but spin is far worse. likes of raju were better than jaddu, who would be regarded as a top 3 spinner today. Don't know about Raju, but how was Maninder Singh ? Heard he was in the mould of Bishen Singh Bedi. Dilip Doshi was another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediumPacer Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 minute ago, Vijy said: he was ordinary overseas, which was common to a lot of spinners. at home, he was quite lethal even without DRS, poor batting techniques of today, and the raging turners He was too slow and short, in India you need tall and quick spinners like Kumble or harbhajan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediumPacer Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Don't know about Raju, but how was Maninder Singh ? Heard he was in the mould of Bishen Singh Bedi. Dilip Doshi was another one. All ordinary,they were too slow for our conditions.Abroad it was better as those piches offer quick turn, if it did turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhaan Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Arey ye Mayank Vali thread me Mayank ke alawa sab baatein ho Rahi hai Kron, raki05, express bowling and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 8 minutes ago, MediumPacer said: He was too slow and short, in India you need tall and quick spinners like Kumble or harbhajan. he was a classic SLA. you don't need those traits you mentioned, in India. go take a look at raju's home record vs bhajji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 minutes ago, Suhaan said: Arey ye Mayank Vali thread me Mayank ke alawa sab baatein ho Rahi hai Khelega to baatein hongi na. Ab to LSG bhi kabhi nahi khilaegi Suhaan and raki05 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kron Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 33 minutes ago, Vijy said: he was a classic SLA. you don't need those traits you mentioned, in India. go take a look at raju's home record vs bhajji. Don't know about raju but kumble would average 24 now post 2014 with much better figures than even ash and jaddu overseas. Saqlain would do well and probably average 2 3 points higher than he did back then as well. Mustaq Ahmed would be tough to handle too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kron Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 40 minutes ago, Suhaan said: Arey ye Mayank Vali thread me Mayank ke alawa sab baatein ho Rahi hai No more from me. Promise. Suhaan and express bowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediumPacer Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Vijy said: he was a classic SLA. you don't need those traits you mentioned, in India. go take a look at raju's home record vs bhajji. He had a two part career and did struggle in the 2nd half , used to bowl quite slowly.First half did exceedingly well but I can't recall it,any way I didn't check his stats before posting ,just went on memory. Edited April 27 by MediumPacer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKane Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Yup, he will make good progress once IPL is over. Just like Tyagi is bowling only at empty wickets in the nets. Mayank too will do the same. Everyone hates a youngster who can steal the limelight. He completely took over the game vs PBKS and vs RCB. You are so very right! Great post. Suhaan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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