Pace bowlers rescued the spinners in the finals.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Last ICC final we won spinners played a major role..

 

Ashwin 3 overs 2 for 6  played a major role in taking the game deep. Also bowled 20th over.

 

Spinners conceded (Ashwin/Jadeja/Raina)  58 runs in 11 overs defending a meager total of 124. 

Yes it helped spinners throughout the tourney uncharacteristically, Jadeja won golden ball and POTM in finals.

 

Pacers failed us in 2017,2022.

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Kuldeep definitely seems like someone who shrinks under pressure. If we play in subsequent finals, I would be wary of picking Kuldeep. He's good for group stages but in finals he shits the bed.

Axar went for plenty too and Jadeja wasnt even bowled after 12 run over..

Kuldeep could have definitely bowled better but we shouldnt forget:

1-Klassen is a supreme batter against spin

2-not much assistance for spinners

3-They had to target Kuldeep else match was over for them if Kuldeep gets his rythm..this was a double edged sword but it worked for them..

4-if Rohit had executed that 3rd shot well against Maharaj..Kohli and Rohit would have been ultra agressive..and others would too..Maharaj would also have gone for plenty..

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

Yes it helped spinners throughout the tourney uncharacteristically, Jadeja won golden ball and POTM in finals.

 

Pacers failed us in 2017,2022.

That is how it goes. Onus is on the team management to cover all the bases. This hope of having a perfect game match after match after match regardless of conditions is why we won nothing for 10 years

[putrevus]

18 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

That's why investing in good fast bowlers in the key. 

 

India have been investing in fast bowlers but key is a captain who understands fast bowlers.Coach/captain and selectors need to be on same page.

 

Dhoni had very good crop of fast bowlers coming thru  during his time but he ruined them by handling them poorly.Rohit is again a bad captain for fast bowlers.They keep abusing the one bowler who is having good day.

 

Key for having fast bowling culture is speed without compromising accuracy.Trundlers are not welcome.They also need to look after the fast bowlers.They cannot be be abused.Both Dhoni and Rohit are serial abusers of fast bowlers.

 

Dhoni being the worst captain for fast bowlers.He was an idiot when it came to fast bowlers.

 

 

[putrevus]

24 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Parag actually has been performing in all formats in domestics, he was talented for sure but this season he has finally curbed down his antics...is a good fielder, can bowl some useful off spin and is a total package.

 

Abhishek too has been a revelation in shortest formats...though I feel he is more like Travis Head and suited on the pattas, his ability to hit monstrous sixes against spin specially is a delight, plus is a very underrated left arm spinner, I wonder why he don't bowl often in IPL.

 

Jaiswal & Rinku both have proven themselves so far, I have big hopes with Tilak as well, kid is super talented and just to find himself. 

 

4 out of the above 5 names are lefties and 3 of them Re decentish bowlers as well. Jaiswal's leg spin can be a lottery as leg spin is hard to master. Tilak & Parag are offie while Abhishek is left arm orthodox.

The jump in quality and pressure to international cricket is huge. I hope they all do well. 

 

Only Jaiswal is real deal so far for me.You could always see the talent and class in Jaiswal , it was a travesty , he did not play this world cup.Rohit idiotic explanation that we don't have openers and play them at number 6 was ridiculous.

 

Hussey was top order batsman but he could not find the spot in that Aussies line up, how did he do as finisher.

 

They need to stay grounded, guy like Gill let fame get to his head.He got humbled a bit I suppose by now.

 

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

13 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Axar went for plenty too and Jadeja wasnt even bowled after 12 run over..

Kuldeep could have definitely bowled better but we shouldnt forget:

1-Klassen is a supreme batter against spin

2-not much assistance for spinners

3-They had to target Kuldeep else match was over for them if Kuldeep gets his rythm..this was a double edged sword but it worked for them..

4-if Rohit had executed that 3rd shot well against Maharaj..Kohli and Rohit would have been ultra agressive..and others would too..Maharaj would also have gone for plenty..

 

Kuldeep was the biggest disappointment in the final. You don't expect much from Axar and Jadeja as they're part-timers, and Axar did his job with the bat. But as a specialist spinner Kuldeep was a total no-show. He over-pitched, was slow in the air and generally couldn't exert any pressure despite SA losing early wkts. This was the perfect time for Kuldeep to make a difference.

 

And he did the same in WC2023 final as well. He seems to be a better version of Chahal. He does well in group stages but goes missing in finals. Against Eng, the match was effectively over as Axar finished it off. He doesn't seem to be clutch and we need to try out some  other spinners. I like Sai Kishore who can bowl in power plays like Akeal Hoseing and also a better bat. Let's try other spinners as I wouldn't want to depend on Kuldeep in another fina.

[Need4Speed]

13 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Kuldeep was the biggest disappointment in the final. You don't expect much from Axar and Jadeja as they're part-timers, and Axar did his job with the bat. But as a specialist spinner Kuldeep was a total no-show. He over-pitched, was slow in the air and generally couldn't exert any pressure despite SA losing early wkts. This was the perfect time for Kuldeep to make a difference.

 

And he did the same in WC2023 final as well. He seems to be a better version of Chahal. He does well in group stages but goes missing in finals. Against Eng, the match was effectively over as Axar finished it off. He doesn't seem to be clutch and we need to try out some  other spinners. I like Sai Kishore who can bowl in power plays like Akeal Hoseing and also a better bat. Let's try other spinners as I wouldn't want to depend on Kuldeep in another fina.

I was expecting more from him too..but for me he was an enforcer in absence of a good fast bowler like Anrich Nortje..thats why I hoped Mayank Yadav was fit and played whole IPL and in this team..

the finger spinners are not able to play an enforcer role for me..I prefer wrist spinners as wkt taking option..we already have Jaddu and Axar for that role..hence Kuldeeps enforcer role should be the 3rd seamer..and less dependency on Kuldeep..wrist spinners are risk\reward kind of thing for me..

 

here is my preferred bowling for future:

Boom(primary bowler)

Arshdeep\Other pacer

3rd pacer(middle over enforcer after Boom-someone like Mayank\Nortje\Cummins etc-Pacy\skilled)

Good wrist spinner(like Kuldeep\Rashid khan\Adil Rashid)

Finger spinner(good in batting like Axar)

 

6th option could be ARs like Pandya or any other spinning AR..

 

This is very penetrative bowling line up..

Now finding 2 batters out of these 5 is a tricky thing..

so its a trade off between penetration and solidifying batting..

 

we went with Jadeja in lack of capable 3rd pacer like Nortje.as we had Hardik too..as extra seamer..

 

and proteas went for pure bowling..they had one batsman short..which proved costly too..

 

its different matter Jaddu couldnt contribute in either but it gave batters a feeling of cushion..

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by Need4Speed

[Ultimate_Game]

3 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I was expecting more from him too..but for me he was an enforcer in absence of a good fast bowler like Anrich Nortje..thats why I hoped Mayank Yadav was fit and played whole IPL and in this team..

the finger spinners are not able to play an enforcer role for me..I prefer wrist spinners as wkt taking option..we already have Jaddu and Axar for that role..hence Kuldeeps enforcer role should be the 3rd seamer..and less dependency on Kuldeep..wrist spinners are risk\reward kind of thing for me..

 

here is my preferred bowling for future:

Boom(primary bowler)

Arshdeep\Other pacer

3rd pacer(middle over enforcer after Boom-someone like Mayank\Nortje\Cummins etc-Pacy\skilled)

Good wrist spinner(like Kuldeep\Rashid khan\Adil Rashid)

Finger spinner(good in batting like Axar)

 

6th option could be ARs like Pandya or any other spinning AR..

 

 

Unless it's a slow and spin friendly surface I would prefer to go with likes of Abhishek and Axar. No point sticking with specialist spinners who're too risky. 3rd pacer role could be played by Harshit or Mayank but we need to find some all-rounders as a longish tail bites you in tourneys just like it did SA in the final and us in WC2023.

[Need4Speed]

11 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Unless it's a slow and spin friendly surface I would prefer to go with likes of Abhishek and Axar. No point sticking with specialist spinners who're too risky. 3rd pacer role could be played by Harshit or Mayank but we need to find some all-rounders as a longish tail bites you in tourneys just like it did SA in the final and us in WC2023.

If we have 3 penetrative bowlers who can pick up wkts anytime..potentially..I am happy to exclude him in that xi..

Having said that..i do remember commies saying in IPL Abshishek was developing some variations..if he does taht and brings mystery into the table..he can be that 3rd bowler for us too..

Edited July 1, 2024 by Need4Speed

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

If we have 3 penetrative bowlers who can pick up wkts anytime..potentially..I am happy to exclude him in that xi..

Having said that..i do remember commies saying in IPL Abshishek was developing some variations..if he does taht and brings mystery into the table..he can be that 3rd bowler for us too..

Maxwell is working on carrom ball. High time our part time spinners elevating their skill sets.

[Need4Speed]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Maxwell is working on carrom ball. High time our part time spinners elevating their skill sets.

absolutely..I even liked Pak's Saim Ayub trying variations like Sunil Narine..in whatever games he played..even Sikandar Raza trie sto emulate Narine :D

[Ultimate_Game]

7 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

If we have 3 penetrative bowlers who can pick up wkts anytime..potentially..I am happy to exclude him in that xi..

Having said that..i do remember commies saying in IPL Abshishek was developing some variations..if he does taht and brings mystery into the table..he can be that 3rd bowler for us too..

 

Abhishek took a 3-fer in IPL qualifier. And check out his bowling stats in domestics - he's a pretty serviceable bowler. He could be our Jayasuriya type of player - open the batting aggressively and turn his arm around when needed. On WI pitches he would be a perfect player.

 

Really hope we end this "Impact Player" rubbish so players like Abhishek, Reddy, Venkatesh Iyer, Parag etc. get more chances to bowl, and bowlers like Harshit Rana who can bat a bit get a chance to bat.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Abhishek took a 3-fer in IPL qualifier. And check out his bowling stats in domestics - he's a pretty serviceable bowler. He could be our Jayasuriya type of player - open the batting aggressively and turn his arm around when needed. On WI pitches he would be a perfect player.

 

Really hope we end this "Impact Player" rubbish so players like Abhishek, Reddy, Venkatesh Iyer, Parag etc. get more chances to bowl, and bowlers like Harshit Rana who can bat a bit get a chance to bat.

Too bad NItish reddy picked up an injury. He can complement Pandya.

[Need4Speed]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Abhishek took a 3-fer in IPL qualifier. And check out his bowling stats in domestics - he's a pretty serviceable bowler. He could be our Jayasuriya type of player - open the batting aggressively and turn his arm around when needed. On WI pitches he would be a perfect player.

 

Really hope we end this "Impact Player" rubbish so players like Abhishek, Reddy, Venkatesh Iyer, Parag etc. get more chances to bowl, and bowlers like Harshit Rana who can bat a bit get a chance to bat.

I have been saying from the start..impact sub is killing our ARs..even Jaiswal not being groomed..

Even Rinku singh bowls too..but no grooming..

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, Need4Speed said:

I have been saying from the start..impact sub is killing our ARs..even Jaiswal not being groomed..

Even Rinku singh bowls too..but no grooming..

 

There's no incentive for IPL franchises to do so as they get an extra player to do so. It'll hurt development of our all-rounders and development of multi-skilled cricketers. Hope better sense prevails and the "Impact Player" experiment is ended 

[AKane]

2 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I have been saying from the start..impact sub is killing our ARs..even Jaiswal not being groomed..

Even Rinku singh bowls too..but no grooming..

I agree - we have to follow ICC rules and not create different set of rules for IPL.  

 

What next? Some chucking allowed?

[Ultimate_Game]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Too bad NItish reddy picked up an injury. He can complement Pandya.

 

They should've selected Venkatesh Iyer as his replacement after his stellar IPL performances. But they went with Dube, who's not an all-rounder

[Need4Speed]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

They should've selected Venkatesh Iyer as his replacement after his stellar IPL performances. But they went with Dube, who's not an all-rounder

there was some case due to team composition and situation to pick Dube for WI but I fail to understand why him in Zim...for me he should have been just a temporary fix..in the team till wcup not beyond that..we need to groom proper batters\ARs..

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Need4Speed said:

there was some case due to team composition and situation to pick Dube for WI but I fail to understand why him in Zim...for me he should have been just a temporary fix..in the team till wcup not beyond that..we need to groom proper batters\ARs..

 

Can't comprehend it either as it was apparent watching him that Dube doesn't have a high ceiling and is a misfit at intl level. Venkatesh looked and performed much better for India but was discarded.