Pace bowlers rescued the spinners in the finals.

[AKane]

All the spinners in the final were woeful/awful.

 

Kuldeep  4-0-45-0

Axar        4-0-49-1

Jadeja     1-0-12-0

 

9 overs or 54 balls for 106 runs - that is almost 200 RR.

 

Pace bowlers

 

Bumrah      4-0-18-2

Arshdeep   4-0-20-2

Pandya       3-0-20-3     (no matter what anyone says, Pandya is a part time bowler)

 

11 overs or 66 balls for 58 runs and 7 wickets.

 

Four spinners selected by Rohit - "secret plan" - almost came back to bite him. Still Indian captains and selectors will pin their hopes on spin - always, everywhere.  Pace bowlers will be step children and the heroes of Indian spin from the days of Mankad/Gupte to Bedi/Chandra/Pras/Venkat to Maninder/Siva/Raju/etc to Kumble/Habhajan to current era will continue esp in tests ( and esp esp in home tests with the doctored wickets ) but even in LOIs.

[Frustrated]

Kuldeep really disappointed me the most.   Never looked like he was in rythm.  Looked rusty.   4 overs 45/0 is very poor on a pitch where Maharaj & Shamshi had much better figures.

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, Frustrated said:

Kuldeep really disappointed me the most.   Never looked like he was in rythm.  Looked rusty.   4 overs 45/0 is very poor on a pitch where Maharaj & Shamshi had much better figures.

He had to have an off day. Its the law of the average.

[Gollum]

Same spinners combined to knock Aus and Eng out. Ok Jaddu was out of form but Kuldeep, Axar.  No need to undermine their contribution.

 

Anyway peak Bumrah was one of the pacers, even Warne wouldn't have matched him here. 

[vvvslaxman]

Bridgetown Barbados is known for assisting pacers more than spinners. They had this inflexible mindset. That is why they went with 3 spinners as it gives us an extra batsman. But it almost cost us the game. My one question why didn't they use Dube,  South Afircans couldn't time even 125 kph balls from Arshdeep. He bowled a lot of cutters something even Dube could have done. 

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Frustrated said:

Kuldeep really disappointed me the most.   Never looked like he was in rythm.  Looked rusty.   4 overs 45/0 is very poor on a pitch where Maharaj & Shamshi had much better figures.

Both KD and Axar outbowled Zampa and Rashid. Heck they outbowled all opponent bowlers except Hazelwood in the games against Eng, Aus. 

 

You can't look at numbers selectively. By @AKane's logic, Rohit and SKY had no role in this WC win because they failed in the final. Or Yuvi had no role in the 2007 WT20 win, because of his 6(10) against Pak. 

 

Just remember one things folks. Had we not eliminated Aussies in Group 8, they would have beaten RSA in SF, us in the F, just like last year's WC. And in that game Axar, Kuldeep outbowled Bumrah....check Axar's overs to Head in that game after he had taken apart our pacers. 

[Gollum]

Kuldeep wasn't used properly yesterday. Never bowl him in PP, not all spinners are suited for that role. He lost confidence there. Whole tournament Rohit kept him outside PP, here he introduced Pandya so late. 

[Gollum]

Also don't forget the batting of one of the spinners yesterday, Axar's knock was the best in our innings, by far. In hindsight one of the most memorable knocks by an Indian in this format, considering the match situation of 34/3 when he walked in. 

 

Nobody asked our pacers to not work on their batting. 

[Lone Wolf]

18 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bridgetown Barbados is known for assisting pacers more than spinners. They had this inflexible mindset. That is why they went with 3 spinners as it gives us an extra batsman. But it almost cost us the game. My one question why didn't they use Dube,  South Afircans couldn't time even 125 kph balls from Arshdeep. He bowled a lot of cutters something even Dube could have done. 

While I think our spinners were definitely not accurate enough but you are right throughout the tournament Barbados has aided Pace.

It was a belter and hit through the line kinda venue...and honestly nothing was working against Klassen.

I thought Kuldeep struggled with ideal length...and Axar with his line..as everything was coming on to the bat.

And Kohli and co were very conservative against spin.

Maharaj literally choked us with a double blow in PP.. otherwise he might have got smashed too 

[AKane]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

And in that game Axar, Kuldeep outbowled Bumrah....check Axar's overs to Head in that game after he had taken apart our pacers. 

 

 

We took apart Aus pacers too - it was a dead pitch for pace bowlers. Check what Rohit did to Starc. Only Haze worked for them. Even then Bumrah+Arshdeep 4/67 in 8 overs vs Kuldeep/Axar 3/45 in 7 overs. 

 

Here the pitch worked for ALL South African spinners and ALL our spinners failed. Maharaj 3-0-23-2,  Shamsi 3-0-26-0, Markram 2-0-16-0. That is 8 overs for 65 runs. Now I am not blaming one spinner for not matching the Saffie spinners. I am blaming them for all failing at once. 

 

As far as the England match goes - they outbowled Rashid and Livingstone in wickets certainly but not much on runs scored. The pitch got slower and lower as match went on. 6/42 vs 1/49. Definitely better but vs Saffies it was a  clobbering 1/94 vs 2/65.

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2024 by AKane

[Gollum]

28 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

 

We took apart Aus pacers too - it was a dead pitch for pace bowlers. Check what Rohit did to Starc. Only Haze worked for them. Even then Bumrah+Arshdeep 4/67 in 8 overs vs Kuldeep/Axar 3/45 in 7 overs. 

Kuldeep, Axar brought us back into the match.

28 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

Here the pitch worked for ALL South African spinners and ALL our spinners failed. Maharaj 3-0-23-2,  Shamsi 3-0-26-0, Markram 2-0-16-0. That is 8 overs for 65 runs. Now I am not blaming one spinner for not matching the Saffie spinners. I am blaming them for all failing at once. 

Indians played conservatively against their spinners, because of the 3 wickets, all of them gifted wickets. 

[cricketfan28]

Yeah ...kuladeep was a huge dissapointment, good thing we have bunrah. 

[AKane]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Kuldeep, Axar brought us back into the match.

Yes they did but the match was never "almost lost" -  Aus was always chasing hard in that match with Maxwell's wicket falling at 13.1 with still 78 needed for win. Marsh's wicket fell with 119 needed off of 11 overs.

 

Here the spinners had reduced us for heaven's sake to 30 runs in 30 balls. Hardly the same. The match was indeed "almost lost". The spinners had been brutalized. The pace bowlers dragged it back so much that the "choking" label is on more than ever for SA.

 

Make no mistake - the Aus match was won by Rohit Sharma's brutal 92 in 41 balls. The final was won by Bumrah and Arshdeep's bowling - esp Bumrah. 

 

Now England gave up 120 runs of 12 overs by their pace bowlers vs 49 in 8 overs by their spinners. That is how bad that pitch was for pace bowlers.... (and Buttler himself said this -  England skipper Jos Buttler said in hindsight it was a tactical mistake on his part to not bowl Moeen Ali on a turning Providence pitch here.)

 

 

Edited June 30, 2024 by AKane

[Singh bling]

What surprises me most why SA didn't pick extra pacer knowing indians are good players of spin 

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Kuldeep, Axar brought us back into the match.

Indians played conservatively against their spinners, because of the 3 wickets, all of them gifted wickets. 

Truth is they had the weapon mother of all beasts against spin. Some of the shots he played are not normal for human beings. He would have dumped SHamsi and Maharaj in the stands as well. India should have never used spinners against him.  His strike rate against pace in this WT20 is only 80. Why spinners. 

[AKane]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Truth is they had the weapon mother of all beasts against spin. Some of the shots he played are not normal for human beings. He would have dumped SHamsi and Maharaj in the stands as well. India should have never used spinners against him.  His strike rate against pace in this WT20 is only 80. Why spinners. 

I agree bowling spinners to Klaasen was a glaring error ..... having said that, the assault by Klaasen and co on the spinners was 2+  times worse than Head's assault on Pandya. Pandya gave up 47 in 4 overs, the two spinners minus Jadeja gave up 94 and Jadeja gave up 12 in one over. This defending a score 28 less than vs Aus.

 

 

[AKane]

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

Also don't forget the batting of one of the spinners yesterday, Axar's knock was the best in our innings, by far. In hindsight one of the most memorable knocks by an Indian in this format, considering the match situation of 34/3 when he walked in. 

 

Nobody asked our pacers to not work on their batting. 

Er lets see now.....  Pandya batting

 

vs Aus scored 27 off of 17 balls

vs Eng scored 23 off of 13 balls

vs SA score 5* off of 2 balls.  ( He came in very late to bat)

 

Total 55 off of 32 balls in last 3 matches(1 n.o.)   vs Axar 57 off of 37 balls in 2 matches played.

Edited July 1, 2024 by AKane

[Ultimate_Game]

12 hours ago, Frustrated said:

Kuldeep really disappointed me the most.   Never looked like he was in rythm.  Looked rusty.   4 overs 45/0 is very poor on a pitch where Maharaj & Shamshi had much better figures.

 

Kuldeep, just like Chahal, loses it mentally if he's hit. He's a much better bowler than Chahal but if he's taken for a few runs he does have a tendency to get rattled.

[AKane]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Kuldeep, just like Chahal, loses it mentally if he's hit. He's a much better bowler than Chahal but if he's taken for a few runs he does have a tendency to get rattled.

I am not really blaming any one spinner - one can have an off day. All were horrible - so bad that they almost gift wrapped the match to SA.

 

Then people compare this with the Aus match and justify the final performance by what happened vs Aus?

 

I mean look at this

 

 

                    match     overs        rpo         wkts          rpo/wkts(removing Hardik and Jadeja numbers)

pace            Aus          12           9.42            4             8.25/4

spin             Aus            8           7.75             3             6.42/3

 

vs

 

                    match     overs        rpo        wkts          rpo/wkts (removing Hardik and Jadeja numbers)

pace            SA            11           5,27           7              4.75/4

spin             SA              9          11.78           1              11.75/1

 

 

I mean are the two comparable?  I mean a difference of 1 or 2 points in rpo is okay - but more than double??? 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by AKane

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, AKane said:

Er lets see now.....  Pandya batting

 

vs Aus scored 27 off of 17 balls

vs Eng scored 23 off of 13 balls

vs SA score 5* off of 2 balls.  ( He came in very late to bat)

 

Total 55 off of 32 balls in last 3 matches(1 n.o.)   vs Axar 57 off of 37 balls in 2 matches played.

Pandya is not a proper pacer, doesn't complete his quota half the time.