Paris Olympics 2024 Discussion Thread

[deepdynamo]

We need a single breakthrough sport to make an impact. The key is to identify one sport that if you are good at, be the best in it.

 

China kills it in Diving, TT, Weightlifting & Shooting. Thats 4 sports.

 

Japan dominates Judo & Wrestling.

 

South Korea has archery to fall back on.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

2019 south asian games medal count. 

 

Nepal and Srilanka sent more athletes than us. Yet they didn't win much.

 

•  Bangladesh (470 athletes)
•  Bhutan (116)
•  India (487)
•  Maldives (216)
•  Nepal (596)
•  Pakistan (263)
•  Sri Lanka (564)

 

 

As of 13 July 2021 (After the Doping Results)

Rank	Nation	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
1	India (IND)	175	92	45	312
2	Nepal (NEP)*	51	60	96	207
3	Sri Lanka (SRI)	40	84	128	252
4	Pakistan (PAK)	30	41	57	128
5	Bangladesh (BAN)	19	32	89	140
6	Maldives (MDV)	1	0	4	5
7	Bhutan (BHU)	0	7	13	20
Totals (7 entries)		316	316	432	1064

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, deepdynamo said:

We need a single breakthrough sport to make an impact. The key is to identify one sport that if you are good at, be the best in it.

 

China kills it in Diving, TT, Weightlifting & Shooting. Thats 4 sports.

 

Japan dominates Judo & Wrestling.

 

South Korea has archery to fall back on.

 

 

 

Swimming has boat load of medals.  They should have different categories of Javelin throw. Like 15 medals in that category lol

[Kron]

28 minutes ago, zen said:

 

All countries have a system but you do not need a system to win a few golds if you have talent. 
 

Pakistan won a gold in javelin so it must have a system too that is probably as good as India’s. If not, then it is the talent that it produced from a population of the size of Uttar Pradesh’s. 
 

Similarly, India won medals because of the talent it has. For a population of 1.4B, it should ideally be able to produce more talent. In the past, it won gold medals in hockey with limited resources. 
 

Some folks can say India is winning medals because of a relative rise in GDP per capita, while some folks can say that it is due to the relative rise population which allows it to find more gems among more stones. 
 

India cannot restrict itself by keeping an inferiority complex about its relative lack of wealth and resources. It has to first learn to do the best from what it has. Otherwise when x happens, they will move on to waiting for y to happen, and then z. The carrot would keep going further and further away!

 

 

 

 

First we need to focus on picking players on merit. Many miss out due to our corrupt selection process. Then nutrition etc. Followed by funding. 

 

Also caste system needs to be abolished. Lot of alleged 'lower caste' people actually are naturally tougher and physically strong due to labour intensive work they do from a young age. 

 

We have improved but still a long way to go. And we need to stop elevating any sports person to celebrity status. This celebrity worshipping needs to stop too. Mindset needs to change. Universities need to offer more scholarships. Sport needs to be seen as a viable option. Parents especially need to push kids to engage in sporting activities from a young age.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Kron said:

First we need to focus on picking players on merit. Many miss out due to our corrupt selection process. Then nutrition etc. Followed by funding. 

 

Also caste system needs to be abolished. Lot of alleged 'lower caste' people actually are naturally tougher and physically strong due to labour intensive work they do from a young age. 

 

We have improved but still a long way to go. And we need to stop elevating any sports person to celebrity status. This celebrity worshipping needs to stop too. Mindset needs to change. Universities need to offer more scholarships. Sport needs to be seen as a viable option. Parents especially need to push kids to engage in sporting activities from a young age.

 

This point i agree. There are some remote areas where more naturally stronger people who are yet to be identified. You get identified through school system mostly.  Only way you identify is by having these contests at village level. That culture has to be there. We cannot have "jalli kattu" contest and expect to identify sprinters.

[zen]

4 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

We need a single breakthrough sport to make an impact. The key is to identify one sport that if you are good at, be the best in it.

 

China kills it in Diving, TT, Weightlifting & Shooting. Thats 4 sports.

 

Japan dominates Judo & Wrestling.

 

South Korea has archery to fall back on.

 

 

Yup, it is good to send a small but highly talented and focused bunch of athletes, than those mostly there because they have met the minimum qualification criteria. 

Edited August 12, 2024 by zen

[Kron]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Swimming has boat load of medals.  They should have different categories of Javelin throw. Like 15 medals in that category lol

Wrestling weight lifting speed climbing walking javelin discus

And hockey should be our focus. 

 

Also badminton squash and tt.tennis. we can definitely win in most of these sports.

[zen]

For fun, what we have learned so far to win more medals:

 

GDP per capita should increase. Similarly, if Indians have any issues with infrastructure or anything, wait till 2080 when its GDP per capita reaches X. 

 

Medals are won using stats and models. So if you average 10 athletes per medal, you can win 100 medals by sending 1,000 athletes. 
 

[saransh]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

 

So easy, so to win 10 medals, India just has to send 200 athletes (assuming that a lot of world class athletes are on the bench and have missed out). 
 

And then to win 50 medals, send 1,000 athletes  

I was comparing us to a country which had a similar conversion rate, obviously we can't send 1000 athletes, our conversion rate would improve over time.

[Kron]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

Yup, it is good to send a small but highly talented and focused bunch of athletes, than those mostly there because they have met the minimum qualification criteria. 

Tbf China has some advanced doping programs which obviously helps. 

 

We need to get to that level too. Would love to see a state sponsored program but yess focus should be on excellence in olympics. not just Asian game for commonwealth games. 

 

Lot of commonwealth games champions where india dominates end uo getting secure jobs, stipends and support which makes them lose motivation overtime. They feel they have already made it. China's attitude towards sport needs to be appreciated.

 

They make sure their athletes are looked after to an extent where their motivation to succeed for their country never diminishes. This is where we lack. China do some crazy stuff and I am not recommending India to follow suit but we need to stop worshipping these athletes like they areworld champions if they haven't performed in Olympics. Commonwealth games is not Olympics. 

 

 

[Kron]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

For fun, what we have learned so far to win more medals:

 

GDP per capita should increase. Similarly, if Indians have any issues with infrastructure or anything, wait till 2080 when its GDP per capita reaches X. 

 

Medals are won using stats and models. So if you average 10 athletes per medal, you can win 100 medals by sending 1,000 athletes. 
 

Badminton players have good support now and so do t.tennis. they failed us this time. Players need to be held accountable too. Lakshya sen is 22. Hopefully he can improve over time. We need to create a battery of such talents to succeed. So yes the right system needs to be created. 

 

Also choking under pressure. Some of these guys beat these world top 10 ranked players in world tournaments but then in Olympics they let us down. That's poor mental strength. Need serious mental conditioning. 

 

You should see China and Korea's mental conditioning training programs on YouTube for olympics. They do almost army style training to maintain their mental toughness. Going through haunted homes, digging ditches, running up the hills in the coldest conditions, staying focus with less sleep etc.

Edited August 12, 2024 by Kron

[deathmonger]

9 minutes ago, zen said:

For fun, what we have learned so far to win more medals:

 

GDP per capita should increase. Similarly, if Indians have any issues with infrastructure or anything, wait till 2080 when its GDP per capita reaches X. 

 

Medals are won using stats and models. So if you average 10 athletes per medal, you can win 100 medals by sending 1,000 athletes. 
 

yes you can easily win 100 medals by sending 1000 athletes.

 

you have to understand this ONE thing - no one "sends" anyone. you have to qualify. NO ONE is SENDING anyone.

 

If contingent size is bigger due to qualification, then that means sporting quality has increased - that means more medals.

 

Gdp per capita should obviously increase. indians may have issues with infrastructure but should also know ground reality.

 

Cant make 12 lakhs a year and then expect to drive around in Porsches.

 

A lot of upper middle class English speaking Indians are completely divorced from the ground reality of the country.

 

Edited August 12, 2024 by deathmonger

[zen]

1 minute ago, saransh said:

I was comparing us to a country which had a similar conversion rate, obviously we can't send 1000 athletes, our conversion rate would improve over time.

IMO, it is not a valid comparison. Spain won medals in tennis, water polo, sailing, etc. In some of the sports/athletics, it would compete with athlete from US, Europe, etc. 
 

India won its medals in hockey, javelin, shooting, and wrestling. To send more athletes, one has to be highly competitive in a variety of disciplines. 
 

 

 

[deathmonger]

21 minutes ago, zen said:

 

So easy, so to win 10 medals, India just has to send 200 athletes (assuming that a lot of world class athletes are on the bench and have missed out). 
 

And then to win 50 medals, send 1,000 athletes  

Yeah if they qualify, why not.

 

If India "sends" 200 athletes they will have 10+ medals.

 

No one can "choose" to "send" or not. People qualify with the criteria set by the sporting body.

[zen]

Just now, deathmonger said:

yes you can easily win 100 medals by sending 1000 athletes.

 

you have to understand this ONE thing - no one "sends" anyone. you have to qualify. NO ONE is SENDING anyway.

 

If contingent size is bigger due to qualification, then that means sporting quality has increased - that means more medals.

 

Gdp per should obviously increase. indians may have issues with infrastructure but should also know ground reality.

 

Cant make 12 lakhs a year and then expect to drive around in Porsches.

 

A lot of upper middle class English speaking Indians are completely divorced from the ground reality of the country.

 

One has to meet the highest standards to go to Olympics. 
 

Sending athletes based on minimum criteria does not yield more medals. 

[deathmonger]

2 minutes ago, Kron said:

Badminton players have good support now and so do t.tennis. they failed us this time. Players need to be held accountable too. Lakshya sen is 22. Hopefully he can improve over time. We need to create a battery of such talents to succeed. So yes the right system needs to be created. 

You have to compare with competitors.

 

Not even comparable to the Asian countries where there is decades of infra/systems.

 

USA can't suddenly start competing with India in cricket no matter how much money they put in.

[Kron]

1 minute ago, deathmonger said:

You have to compare with competitors.

 

Not even comparable to the Asian countries where there is decades of infra/systems.

 

USA can't suddenly start competing with India in cricket no matter how much money they put in.

Agreed. 

 

 

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, zen said:

One has to meet the highest standards to go to Olympics. 
 

Sending athletes based on minimum criteria does not yield more medals. 

One has to meet the standards set by the sporting associations.

 

Sporting improvement is across the board and happens via time.

 

India only started medaling in a lot of events in the last 10 years. If you never send anyone and wait till you are medal level, then you will never be medal level.

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, deathmonger said:

You have to compare with competitors.

 

Not even comparable to the Asian countries where there is decades of infra/systems.

 

USA can't suddenly start competing with India in cricket no matter how much money they put in.

 

US is built by immigrants be it is science or entertainment or sports. If they serious about cricke they will poach players from Australia and South Africa easily. People would love to move to US. Can India poach kenyan runners? I guess not.

[deathmonger]

The idea that you can pick random people up who meet "Olympic standards" and send them is the dumbest idea possible.

 

You need decades of investment/progress before you get Olympic medals.

 

India started medaling in world championships/Olympics in badminton/wrestling mostly from the late 2000s-early 2010s

 

These things have run since the 60s-70s