Now that Dinesh Karthik has come, we are expecting more Indian players in the future: Graeme Smith

[Lord]

24 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Unmukt Chand is a different case as he has moved to US just like Saurabh Netravalkar or Harmeet Singh did. But DK has his base in India. BCCI has to make sure he becomes persona non grata and he doesn't benefit from Indian cricket at all. No more commentary gigs, or coaching roles or any state cricket association roles etc. Other than pensioner leagues, Indian players shouldn't be allowed to play any other leagues else it dilutes the value of IPL.

 

Why is value of IPL so sacred? I am all for young players playing in foreign leagues and getting experience of various conditions. IPL will still b premier because of the money it offers. No league can match it for long.

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Unmukt Chand is a different case as he has moved to US just like Saurabh Netravalkar or Harmeet Singh did. But DK has his base in India. BCCI has to make sure he becomes persona non grata and he doesn't benefit from Indian cricket at all. No more commentary gigs, or coaching roles or any state cricket association roles etc. Other than pensioner leagues, Indian players shouldn't be allowed to play any other leagues else it dilutes the value of IPL.

 

Don't think BCCI cares about it. Besides owners of the SA franchisees are the same as  IPL franchisees. So they will want him to play there. May be he will finally play for super kings lol.  Uthappa already played for  IL in dubai. He did commentary for the world cup warm up. 

[Suhaan]

As if DK will make any difference

Having him equals nothing

Graeme Smith must be regretting making this comment immediately after

[Ultimate_Game]

7 hours ago, Suhaan said:

As if DK will make any difference

Having him equals nothing

Graeme Smith must be regretting making this comment immediately after

 

DK by himself means nothing. It's the precedent which is set. Others may decide to take his lead. Should've only been allowed to play pensioner leagues & tourneys such as WCL, Masters or Legends cup.

[Ultimate_Game]

19 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Why is value of IPL so sacred? I am all for young players playing in foreign leagues and getting experience of various conditions. IPL will still b premier because of the money it offers. No league can match it for long.

 

It's coz that's the only league where you can watch Indian players. The moment people can see Indian players in other leagues, the USP and brand value of IPL diminishes, and instead of valuation in billions of dollars, it becomes just one of the other leagues though it'll still command more value due to it being an Indian league.

 

It leads to a slippery slope where other franchises may target potential stars such as Abhishek or take a punt on others. Or may splurge on a handful of established/marquee players to get the eyeballs. Not worth taking the risk and it'll become difficult putting the genie back in the bottle. If anyone wants to watch Indian players, they gotta watch IPL. Simple as that and I'm sure IPL franchise owners want to see the same else their franchise valuations will drop as well.

[Lord]

47 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

It's coz that's the only league where you can watch Indian players. The moment people can see Indian players in other leagues, the USP and brand value of IPL diminishes, and instead of valuation in billions of dollars, it becomes just one of the other leagues though it'll still command more value due to it being an Indian league.

 

It leads to a slippery slope where other franchises may target potential stars such as Abhishek or take a punt on others. Or may splurge on a handful of established/marquee players to get the eyeballs. Not worth taking the risk and it'll become difficult putting the genie back in the bottle. If anyone wants to watch Indian players, they gotta watch IPL. Simple as that and I'm sure IPL franchise owners want to see the same else their franchise valuations will drop as well.

 

Again why does it matters if players play for other leagues. Ofcourse franchise owners want to protect their investment. But how does it help Indian cricket? If someone else is ready to play more to get the players, good for them. Then IPL franchise owners need to shell out more to lure Indian players.

 

There's a reason we still struggle for lower middle order players in T2OIs while even WI has players for such spots due to playing in multiple leagues. IPL only develops certain kinds of players.

[Serpico]

On 9/10/2024 at 3:56 PM, LordPrabhzy said:

If USA can get away with not having quotas despite having slavery why do SA have the extra burden to at the expense of their quality

Probably because USA is 13% black while sa is 80% black. They're worried that cricket will become unsustainable in south africa if black population aren't interested in the sport

[vvvslaxman]

9 hours ago, Suhaan said:

As if DK will make any difference

Having him equals nothing

Graeme Smith must be regretting making this comment immediately after

I don't think he talks  about performance.  It is more about representation. Graeme smith  is leading this effort of having a successful franchisee league in SA.  They are already on the right path. This is another step in that direction.  Given that two of the franchisees are owned by IPL behemoths Mumbai INdians and CSK this trend cannot be bucked by BCCI.  IPL owners will have the final say. Uthappa already played in ILT20 league alongwith Yusuf Pathan both biggest IPL stars. 

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Again why does it matters if players play for other leagues. Ofcourse franchise owners want to protect their investment. But how does it help Indian cricket? If someone else is ready to play more to get the players, good for them. Then IPL franchise owners need to shell out more to lure Indian players.

 

There's a reason we still struggle for lower middle order players in T2OIs while even WI has players for such spots due to playing in multiple leagues. IPL only develops certain kinds of players.

 

BCCI and Indian cricket's finances will be hurt as well since they also earn from IPL. Lesser revenue for IPL means lesser revenue for Indian cricket. As for foreign leagues "developing" players, unlikely to happen as they'll only play established or proven players, or finished products. Also, it wasn't that we didn't have players. The challenge was selectors and team management not backing the players we have.

 

Even in the last WT20, players like Jaiswal, Abhishek and Rinku were ignored. Jaiswal is probably one of the best all-format players, Abhishek went toe to toe with Travis Head, and Rinku is a world class middle order player and already proven at intl level. What did the selectors and team management do? Ignore all of them. Similarly we had Shashank and Ashutosh Sharma as lower order hitters but not tried. Point is that if the team management don't blood the players & talent we have and continue to go with seniors and one-dimensional players, nothing will change. If they don't even give chances to players who do well in IPL, they're unlikely to select players who perform in other leagues.

[LordPrabhzy]

2 hours ago, Serpico said:

Probably because USA is 13% black while sa is 80% black. They're worried that cricket will become unsustainable in south africa if black population aren't interested in the sport

 

But bringing in fake quotas will only harm the results of SA cricket- if SA pick only blacks and the team does reall y bad ( which it will) then the interest in the general population will be low anyway. Even in football, SA isnt ranked highly but football is a world sport which means a lot of south africans would want to play it, unlike cricket.

[Lord]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

BCCI and Indian cricket's finances will be hurt as well since they also earn from IPL. Lesser revenue for IPL means lesser revenue for Indian cricket. As for foreign leagues "developing" players, unlikely to happen as they'll only play established or proven players, or finished products. Also, it wasn't that we didn't have players. The challenge was selectors and team management not backing the players we have.

 

Even in the last WT20, players like Jaiswal, Abhishek and Rinku were ignored. Jaiswal is probably one of the best all-format players, Abhishek went toe to toe with Travis Head, and Rinku is a world class middle order player and already proven at intl level. What did the selectors and team management do? Ignore all of them. Similarly we had Shashank and Ashutosh Sharma as lower order hitters but not tried. Point is that if the team management don't blood the players & talent we have and continue to go with seniors and one-dimensional players, nothing will change. If they don't even give chances to players who do well in IPL, they're unlikely to select players who perform in other leagues.

 

They don't give chances to performers in IPL precisely because they are unsure of how will they go in foreign conditions. This is solved by players playing in varied conditions and then we can seperate real prospects from pretenders.

 

And if allowed, I'm sure young guys will be the first ones to be picked as established players will be too costly for these leagues. And even young guys with some hype will bring eyeballs. 

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

They don't give chances to performers in IPL precisely because they are unsure of how will they go in foreign conditions. This is solved by players playing in varied conditions and then we can seperate real prospects from pretenders.

 

And if allowed, I'm sure young guys will be the first ones to be picked as established players will be too costly for these leagues. And even young guys with some hype will bring eyeballs. 

 

 

 

Are you saying they had doubts about Jaiswal performing when he has been our best bat for nearly a year? Or Rinku wasn't picked coz despite averaging nearly 70 with a SR of 170+ there were still "questions"? Or Abhishek, who was by far our best opener in IPL and matched Travis Head would've found WI conditions challenging despite stacking the stack with spinners?

 

Fact is that the team is selected as a personal fiefdom where only folks with the "right" backing & support can make it. Dube will continue to get chances and even someone like Ruturaj will get in ahead of Abhishek and Rinku coz they don't play for the right franchises such as CSK, MI or RCB. Siraj can continue sucking balls in shorter formats but is picked despite performance when someone like Harshit Rana has to languish to get a game despite much better performances in IPL.

 

I don't think performing in other leagues will make any difference as selectors & team management will jump through hoops to explain why IPL non-performers are better than the guys who performed. Our system is such that BCCI head nominates a captain before the team is selected, and selectors don't have any balls to make any left field pick.

Also, one last point regarding the doubt around youngsters not performing abroad. Our youngsters beat Aus in Aus in 2020-21 and nearly everyone performed right from Washington Sundar to Shardul Thakur to Nattu to Siraj etc. If that doesn't show how good our youngsters are, nothing will.

[vvvslaxman]

31 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

They don't give chances to performers in IPL precisely because they are unsure of how will they go in foreign conditions. This is solved by players playing in varied conditions and then we can seperate real prospects from pretenders.

 

And if allowed, I'm sure young guys will be the first ones to be picked as established players will be too costly for these leagues. And even young guys with some hype will bring eyeballs. 

 

 

 

We have to remembers Indian cricketers are not the real superstars. Real superstars are Indian fans.  They drive the market. CRicketers benefit from it. In turn BCCI benefits from it.  ANy league will be successful only when enough Indians watch. Not sure anyone would watch just for DK lol.  Besides i watch SA league regardless of whether Indians participate or not. BBL never watched though.  SA20 is quiet good even without Indians. Same way MLC looks much more star studded than an IPL team.

[Lord]

43 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

We have to remembers Indian cricketers are not the real superstars. Real superstars are Indian fans.  They drive the market. CRicketers benefit from it. In turn BCCI benefits from it.  ANy league will be successful only when enough Indians watch. Not sure anyone would watch just for DK lol.  Besides i watch SA league regardless of whether Indians participate or not. BBL never watched though.  SA20 is quiet good even without Indians. Same way MLC looks much more star studded than an IPL team.

 

Indian fans will definitely watch SA20 and other leagues if young Indian players are there. To me the connect isn't there when an Indian player isn't there

[Lord]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Are you saying they had doubts about Jaiswal performing when he has been our best bat for nearly a year? Or Rinku wasn't picked coz despite averaging nearly 70 with a SR of 170+ there were still "questions"? Or Abhishek, who was by far our best opener in IPL and matched Travis Head would've found WI conditions challenging despite stacking the stack with spinners?

 

no I'm making a general point rather than about selections. That is a problem too but not the only one. We lack talent in some areas whereas have surplus of certain kind of cricketers

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Fact is that the team is selected as a personal fiefdom where only folks with the "right" backing & support can make it. Dube will continue to get chances and even someone like Ruturaj will get in ahead of Abhishek and Rinku coz they don't play for the right franchises such as CSK, MI or RCB. Siraj can continue sucking balls in shorter formats but is picked despite performance when someone like Harshit Rana has to languish to get a game despite much better performances in IPL.

 

I don't think performing in other leagues will make any difference as selectors & team management will jump through hoops to explain why IPL non-performers are better than the guys who performed. Our system is such that BCCI head nominates a captain before the team is selected, and selectors don't have any balls to make any left field pick.

Also, one last point regarding the doubt around youngsters not performing abroad. Our youngsters beat Aus in Aus in 2020-21 and nearly everyone performed right from Washington Sundar to Shardul Thakur to Nattu to Siraj etc. If that doesn't show how good our youngsters are, nothing will.

 

True but the more exposure they get the better no? It will force selectors to acknowledge them if someone is consistently performing in overseas conditions too in addition to IPL.

[Ultimate_Game]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

no I'm making a general point rather than about selections. That is a problem too but not the only one. We lack talent in some areas whereas have surplus of certain kind of cricketers

 

True but the more exposure they get the better no? It will force selectors to acknowledge them if someone is consistently performing in overseas conditions too in addition to IPL.

 

Theoretically yes. More conditions the players get experience in, better for player development. But it raises other questions... how do you manage player workload, how do you differentiate IPL & Indian cricket from the rest else you risk losing influence, how do you ensure players players are motivated to play for India?

 

Look at Pak. They play nearly every league there is. And they lose to likes of US, Ireland, Zim, B'desh, Afg on a regular basis. The only recent success they've had is thanks to upsets such as Ned beating SA or winning tosses in Dewbai. Given consistent conditions, they'll likely lose to most of the teams. I see more downside than upside. It's unlikely to influence team selection but will weaken the influence Indian cricket has.

[vvvslaxman]

18 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Indian fans will definitely watch SA20 and other leagues if young Indian players are there. To me the connect isn't there when an Indian player isn't there

 

I don't think adding a few Indians won't increase the Indian viewership. IPL is much more than that. Rivalry. Celebrity super stars. Fan base for a franchise. They all define the success of the league. It is very hard for other leagues to create that kind of a vibe.  CSK vs MI vs RCB you cannot recreate that rivalry elsewhere.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I don't think adding a few Indians won't increase the Indian viewership. IPL is much more than that. Rivalry. Celebrity super stars. Fan base for a franchise. They all define the success of the league. It is very hard for other leagues to create that kind of a vibe.  CSK vs MI vs RCB you cannot recreate that rivalry elsewhere.

CSK and MI already have franchisees in SAT20. With infusion of Indian players interest will pick up. Rivalries and loyalties develop gradually. No one was loyal to MI/CSK on first day.

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

CSK and MI already have franchisees in SAT20. With infusion of Indian players interest will pick up. Rivalries and loyalties develop gradually. No one was loyal to MI/CSK on first day.

You need sizeable population and cricket craze to go with. It makes IPL unique. My point is any amount of success can barely make a dent in IPL.   BCCI allows only players who retired from IPL to take part in other leagues. 

[Lord]

15 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

You need sizeable population and cricket craze to go with. It makes IPL unique. My point is any amount of success can barely make a dent in IPL.   BCCI allows only players who retired from IPL to take part in other leagues. 

 

yeah why are they insecure if IPL is so good.