ravishingravi Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 Jets down discussion is further confirmation of our lack of war experience
Prabhdeep Singh Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 Indian jets were down but no number given, it is ok to lose jets if that resulted in inflicting major damage to opposition. Just give the figure.
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 As I said even US will lose jets when it comes to such a contested Air space between India and Pakistan. Bharat Rakshak guys said that SAM unit in Lahore that got later destroyed by our armed Harop drones managed to engage one of our jets (probably Bhatinda one) It's location was then exposed which got the SAM unit destroyed in Lahore. Only learning from this is SEAD/DEAD ops must be initiated first up and all enemy AD's SAM systems must be dismantled before assaulting them with fighter jets. It was a mistake on IAF's part to not go through with it first up. But every exchange is a learning.
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 20 minutes ago, Prabhdeep Singh said: Indian jets were down but no number given, it is ok to lose jets if that resulted in inflicting major damage to opposition. Just give the figure. Why would they give it? Ops are ongoing no? Did Pakistan gave us the numbers of their confirmed destroyed jets/AEW&C system in Bholari base or F16 Hangar getting busted in Jacobabad air base? raki05 1
MechEng Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 CDS sir's intention here was in good faith, but he's completely unaware of the actual context of that question. Looks like he's completely away from social media, which is a good thing but that makes him naive from the context of psy-ops raki05 1
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 (edited) Most accurate assessment to come from this is ... The night we launched Airstrikes on Pakistani Terror camps is when we sustained the damage. Those ops were performed without any SEAD/DEAD ops (blunder) but IAF quickly realised it and later on Targeted PAF's AD and SAM (HQ-9) systems and Radar systems with attack drones and then the ops went smoothly with Pakistani bases getting bombed with impunity. Edited May 31, 2025 by Lone Wolf
Prabhdeep Singh Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 3 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Why would they give it? Ops are ongoing no? Did Pakistan gave us the numbers of their confirmed destroyed jets/AEW&C system in Bholari base or F16 Hangar getting busted in Jacobabad air base? I am not sure what the right strategy should be but the army chief did not seem relaxed answering the question. There is plenty of evidence of India’s great work, should not be bogged down by losing a few jets. For example if 100 jets are in the air, 1 or 2 jets will be lost as nothing is fool proof. I am sure the other side has lost a lot more, but for them having a war with India and escaping is their badge of honour. raki05 1
MechEng Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 5 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Most accurate assessment to come from this is ... The night we launched Airstrikes on Pakistani Terror camps is when we sustained the damage. Those ops were performed without any SEAD/DEAD ops (blunder) but IAF quickly realised it and later on Targeted PAF's AD and SAM (HQ-9) systems and Radar systems with attack drones and then the ops went smoothly with Pakistani bases getting bombed with impunity. Whatever the truth is, we need to be tactful when dealing with media. These narratives impact share prices of defence stocks either directly or indirectly. Whatever the lessons that are learnt in the conflict you dicuss them internally and not share the same with global media. There is no good faith in the current world. raki05 1
ravishingravi Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 16 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: As I said even US will lose jets when it comes to such a contested Air space between India and Pakistan. Bharat Rakshak guys said that SAM unit in Lahore that got later destroyed by our armed Harop drones managed to engage one of our jets (probably Bhatinda one) It's location was then exposed which got the SAM unit destroyed in Lahore. Only learning from this is SEAD/DEAD ops must be initiated first up and all enemy AD's SAM systems must be dismantled before assaulting them with fighter jets. It was a mistake on IAF's part to not go through with it first up. But every exchange is a learning. This is insane stupidity. How can you communicate in this naive way with media. raki05 1
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 The good part is that we are able to understand the tactical mistake which we made, remedy it, rectify it, and then implement it again after two days and flew all our jets again, targeting at long range," General Chauhan said. That's why I was always against striking Terror bases first up. You have to destroy and attack PAF and Pak army bases in a coordinated manner. Escalation ladder doesn't matters when you know a response will come.
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 3 minutes ago, ravishingravi said: This is insane stupidity. How can you communicate in this naive way with media. CDS saab got carried away a little. IAF chief would be legit pi**ed
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 5 minutes ago, MechEng said: Whatever the truth is, we need to be tactful when dealing with media. These narratives impact share prices of defence stocks either directly or indirectly. Whatever the lessons that are learnt in the conflict you dicuss them internally and not share the same with global media. There is no good faith in the current world. Yeah this should have been under IAF chief's domain. Maybe CDS has got way too much power now ... Late Bipin Rawat style.
randomGuy Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 9 minutes ago, ravishingravi said: This is insane stupidity. How can you communicate in this naive way with media. Agreed but still he didn't give the number and said an emphatic 'absolutely incorrect' to pakistan claims , suggesting pakistani claims are way off. raki05 1
randomGuy Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Prabhdeep Singh said: I am not sure what the right strategy should be but the army chief did not seem relaxed answering the question. There is plenty of evidence of India’s great work, should not be bogged down by losing a few jets. For example if 100 jets are in the air, 1 or 2 jets will be lost as nothing is fool proof. I am sure the other side has lost a lot more, but for them having a war with India and escaping is their badge of honour. Bhai abhi tak 'tea is great' ka naam japte hain woh. Best stretegy for such people is unko order of magnitudes jyada thoko aur apne meagre losses bhi disclose mat karo. Edited May 31, 2025 by randomGuy raki05 1
MechEng Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: That's why I was always against striking Terror bases first up. You have to destroy and attack PAF and Pak army bases in a coordinated manner. Escalation ladder doesn't matters when you know a response will come. @Lone Wolf our first aim was to hit terror targets and not to escalate it to a war. This was clear in the first Op Sindoor circular that was shared. Hence from that perspective, not engaging in SEAD first was the right move. But now that PM has stated that any terror attack will be considered an act of war, I believe that the approach will be different in the coming time. Edited May 31, 2025 by MechEng
MechEng Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 7 minutes ago, randomGuy said: Bhai abhi tak 'tea is great' ka naam japte hain woh. Best stretegy for such people is unko order of magnitudes jyada thoko aur apne meagre losses bhi disclose mat karo. Exactly, we are still naive when it comes to narrative building and psy-ops Either give a very cryptic response to sensitive questions or don't answer those questions at all. World has changed drastically and what you say out in social media carries a lot of weight, especially if you're a CDS. This is not 90s anymore where media houses understood good faith. raki05 1
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 2 minutes ago, MechEng said: @Lone Wolf our first aim was to hit terror targets and not to escalate it to a war. This was clear in the first Op Sindoor circular that was shared. Hence from that perspective, not engaging in SEAD is the right move. But now that PM has stated that any terror attack will be considered an act of war, I believe the approach will be different in the coming time. You cannot successfully hit terror bases with zero losses and camps without destroying Enemy AD bases and Radar systems. This is a highly contested air space not like Israel bombing Gaza and Hamas camps. Israel knew it had to take out Egypt's SAM and Radar systems & on ground fighter jets in six day war or risk losing fighter planes.. and went for it & did it effectively. They got lucky but still intention was right. I think better sense prevailed later on when IAF must have told GoI to stay in your lane and let us do our job and went for SEAD/DEAD ops. Modi G had to say that Terrorist and P@ki army will be treated the same... Because there is no other alternative. One cannot be destroyed without the other. It was just basic stuff.
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 18 minutes ago, randomGuy said: Bhai abhi tak 'tea is great' ka naam japte hain woh. Best stretegy for such people is unko order of magnitudes jyada thoko aur apne meagre losses bhi disclose mat karo. IAF is audited and numbers are in public domain. We will get the numbers when ops are "officially" over. CDS should have not jumped the gun
Lone Wolf Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 Also another day to remember that we do not have a ISPR unit to do all this stuff. Jernails are not media trained. Bloomberg hi Mila tha interview dene ke liye
MechEng Posted May 31, 2025 Posted May 31, 2025 3 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: You cannot successfully hit terror bases with zero losses and camps without destroying Enemy AD bases and Radar systems. This is a highly contested air space not like Israel bombing Gaza and Hamas camps. Israel knew it had to take out Egypt's SAM and Radar systems & on ground fighter jets in six day war or risk losing fighter planes.. and went for it & did it effectively. They got lucky but still intention was right. I think better sense prevailed later on when IAF must have told GoI to stay in your lane and let us do our job and went for SEAD/DEAD ops. Modi G had to say that Terrorist and P@ki army will be treated the same... Because there is no other alternative. One cannot be destroyed without the other. It was just basic stuff. Understood. But we never saw Indo - Pak conflict in the same lens as Israel - Palestine war, call it sportsmanship or chivalry from our side. Going forward the things might be different.
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