Operation sindoor

[MechEng]

41 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

So Pakistanis are indeed testing Nukes... Confirmed by Organtua.. what's stopping us then?

 

 

 

Let them. 

[Lone Wolf]

So first of the 8 will arrive next year... Meanwhile MoD baboons are still twiddling their thumbs on project P75I.

 

DRDO AIP fuel cell meanwhile still isn't operational.

So we remain only major Navy with zero AIP powered subs.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

As things stand first Submarine roll out from Project 75I stands in Friggin 2034.  We have wasted entire last decade literally 

 

Though Porks claiming all 8 will be delivered by 2028 is a strech.  2030 is what I expect they will have all 11 operational AIP powered Subs.

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

As things stand first Submarine roll out from Project 75I stands in Friggin 2034.  We have wasted entire last decade literally 

 

Though Porks claiming all 8 will be delivered by 2028 is a strech.  2030 is what I expect they will have all 11 operational AIP powered Subs.

 

We need to develop sophisticated hacking abilities parallelly. Get expert cryptographers and pentesters onboard, find loopholes in enemy firewall and exploit the same when the time is right.

 

Hack into their systems and disable their decision making.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

As things stand first Submarine roll out from Project 75I stands in Friggin 2034.  We have wasted entire last decade literally 

 

Though Porks claiming all 8 will be delivered by 2028 is a strech.  2030 is what I expect they will have all 11 operational AIP powered Subs.

I think the focus in on Diesel-Electric Submarines and Nuclear Ballistic submarines first.
AIP sits in the middle of the two....hence being treated as a middle child. Instead we're build anti submarine warships in large numbers to counter those.

 

[G_B_]

Really?

 

India has huge advantage in surface ships.

 

Also nobody really knows the status or parameters of the s5 program.

 

Arihant class is too noisy for china but will be more than enough for pakistan. Should be good to go in the indian ocean. There are rumours we already have 4 of these.

 

I think in the end India will end up ordering 3 more scoprene subs before the arrival of German subs. Will use DRDO AIP tech. So likely to end up with 9 scorpenes.

[Lone Wolf]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think the focus in on Diesel-Electric Submarines and Nuclear Ballistic submarines first.
AIP sits in the middle of the two....hence being treated as a middle child. Instead we're build anti submarine warships in large numbers to counter those.

 

Focus is on neither atp... INS Khanderi is supposed to cut in half with the help of French in 2026 and then DRDO AIP fuel cell will be installed and then it's testing phase will begin... It's been 8 years delay so far.  Unacceptable really 

 

 

 

P75I design is properly in limbo.. type 214 German Submarines were shortlisted now there were reports of entirely new design which is speculated to cause even more delays.

 

First Nuclear attack SSN will be commissioned post 2035 as per Navy cheif Marshal.. depending upon French collaboration 

 

 

2030-35 period is when Indian Naval dominance will be really tested... Coz of these delays.

 

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/pakistans-hangor-class-submarine-with-aip-tech/?amp

 

China's insane Shipbuilding capacity would ensure by mid 2030's IOR will totally dominated by Chinese carriers and vast Submarine fleet.

 

Edited November 4, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

Lol now every major outlet is covering it... 

ToI bringing it to light has its own advantages.

More danda for Babooos MoD and fasten up P75I,  AIP integration on existing Scorpene 

[G_B_]

Hangor class endurance with aip 65 days 20 days on aip alone.

 

Scorpene class endurance without aip 50 days. With drdo aip expected at 75 days.

 

Lets not pretend that this is some unbeatable tech

 

 

 

 

[crictime]

41 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Hangor class endurance with aip 65 days 20 days on aip alone.

 

Scorpene class endurance without aip 50 days. With drdo aip expected at 75 days.

 

Lets not pretend that this is some unbeatable tech

 

 

 

 

Have we made significant progress given that this government is at the centre for 11 years now and is easily set to complete 15 years. Has the targeted readiness in terms of availability of good fighter planes, readiness to set enough deterence to all the threatening countries, upto the mark costumes and gear for army, quantity of surface to air defense systems, quantoty of brahmos and higher capable missiles been met.

 

I won't go into technicalities as I am not well informed in these aspects. Did we have proper plans in place and if yes, are they met.

[Lone Wolf]

3 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Hangor class endurance with aip 65 days 20 days on aip alone.

 

Scorpene class endurance without aip 50 days. With drdo aip expected at 75 days.

 

Lets not pretend that this is some unbeatable tech

 

 

 

 

11 AIP class Submarines for a extremely smaller coastline and EEZ is fair enough... For a bankrupt country as well.

 

Nothing justifies India's continued delays on Submarine front 

We have a huge coastline to maintain and a even bigger EEZ.

 

Our Kilo Class, Shishumar class subs are already near retirement age.. and would be gone in Early to mid 2030's.

 

Why do you think Indian Navy is willing to pay premium Jaziya for US P8I aircraft in our deals?  They also know we are facing severe issues on that front.....ToI has brought all this mainstream.. usually its IAF that takes all the spotlight (for a good reason though)

Edited November 4, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[G_B_]

33 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

11 AIP class Submarines for a extremely smaller coastline and EEZ is fair enough... For a bankrupt country as well.

 

Nothing justifies India's continued delays on Submarine front 

We have a huge coastline to maintain and a even bigger EEZ.

 

Our Kilo Class, Shishumar class subs are already near retirement age.. and would be gone in Early to mid 2030's.

 

Why do you think Indian Navy is willing to pay premium Jaziya for US P8I aircraft in our deals?  They also know we are facing severe issues on that front.....ToI has brought all this mainstream.. usually its IAF that takes all the spotlight (for a good reason though)

 

Lol

 

Google what engine they use once germans said no....

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

25 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

Lol

 

Google what engine they use once germans said no....

 

 

CHD 260 already know that.. indigenous Chinese engine..  which is seen as German alternative.  Unproven for sure, Reckon Thai also have ordered similar class.  But as Pentagon acknowledged China's shipbuilding capacity prowess, we probably shouldn't talk about it.

Fully appreciate their hustle otoh.  Something for our Babus to learn.

 

 

Germans have been unreliable for a while on Submarine front.

That's why India's own SSN deal is with French collaboration.

 

And India's P75I itself is facing some design and ToT issues with Germans.  Every 2 months there is new report on it.

[Lone Wolf]

Just read that 3 Scorpene sub deal is also likely dead with the French. 

More incentive to push aggressively for P75I

[rangeelaraja]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Just read that 3 Scorpene sub deal is also likely dead with the French. 

More incentive to push aggressively for P75I

 

 

How is there even a semblance of parity with a state that has 1/8th of our budget ?

 

Either we are incredibly incompetent and terrible with planning or they are understating their true expenses which are much more than they claim.

 

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

[Lone Wolf]

9 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

How is there even a semblance of parity with a state that has 1/8th of our budget ?

 

Either we are incredibly incompetent and terrible with planning or they are understating their true expenses which are much more than they claim.

 

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

They spend almost 25% of their  budget on military...

Thanks to our larger size most of our budget goes towards revenue expenditure (salaries, pensions etc)

 

Also Pakistan inducts whatever is available to them... This current deal for example was a steal for them in 2015 only 5 billion dollars worth.

 

India actively searches for wonder weapons  thanks to import lobby.  Psu's are incapable of delivering on time leaving armed forces buying silver bullets.

 

There was a article this week on India Today about our ultra slow acquisition process.  Bureaucracy ails us in every field.

We took a decade to negotiate with france for 3 more scorpene submarines .

Now  we probably are to reject them for 6 german submarines (P75I) for whose negotiations we are going to take another decade.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

9 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

How is there even a semblance of parity with a state that has 1/8th of our budget ?

 

Either we are incredibly incompetent and terrible with planning or they are understating their true expenses which are much more than they claim.

 

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

Pak is a military governed state, hence every business inside Pak either overtly or covertly, money goes to Military first.
In Pak, govt is an arm of military...in India its reverse, Military is a wing of Govt.
 

[singhvivek141]

11 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Just read that 3 Scorpene sub deal is also likely dead with the French. 

More incentive to push aggressively for P75I

Won't say it's near parity, they're sensationalizing the news.
Fighter jet squadrons look similar, but Pak operates 6 squadron of Mirage 3 and some old Chinese jets....which are highly incompetent in today's airware. 
They've around 250-260 jets comprising of JF-17, JF-10C and F16 which are actual threats to us.

In comparison we have around 250-260 jets of MKI, 36 Rafales and 36-38 Tejas mk1. Our Air to Surface missiles are superior and can cause devastating impact.
Even the few squadrons that we have of Mig 29 are quite capable and can cause significant damage to their airpower. Only place where we lack is the BVR missile, but apart from that, our Air force is perfectly capable of demolishing PAF to the ground in close combat. Add to that S400, which can provide us semi BVR cover shooing away the PAF jets.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Won't say it's near parity, they're sensationalizing the news.
Fighter jet squadrons look similar, but Pak operates 6 squadron of Mirage 3 and some old Chinese jets....which are highly incompetent in today's airware. 
They've around 250-260 jets comprising of JF-17, JF-10C and F16 which are actual threats to us.

In comparison we have around 250-260 jets of MKI, 36 Rafales and 36-38 Tejas mk1. Our Air to Surface missiles are superior and can cause devastating impact.
Even the few squadrons that we have of Mig 29 are quite capable and can cause significant damage to their airpower. Only place where we lack is the BVR missile, but apart from that, our Air force is perfectly capable of demolishing PAF to the ground in close combat. Add to that S400, which can provide us semi BVR cover shooing away the PAF jets.

Do you seriously believe PAF has to contend with two fronts like India or secure a vast coastline?

 

IAF is stretched so thin that we have limited scope of a full throttle offensive.

 

He is not sensationalising... These issues are regularly talked about in Indian defence circles among analysts and experts.

He is right about AEW and MGS systems as well.  These are cases of sheer incompetence on our part.

 

It's good that people are becoming more aware about all this which wasn't the case 10 years ago. 

Only under pressure we can get things done in this country.

 

[singhvivek141]

8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Do you seriously believe PAF has to contend with two fronts like India or secure a vast coastline?

 

IAF is stretched so thin that we have limited scope of a full throttle offensive.

 

He is not sensationalising... These issues are regularly talked about in Indian defence circles among analysts and experts.

He is right about AEW and MGS systems as well.  These are cases of sheer incompetence on our part.

 

It's good that people are becoming more aware about all this which wasn't the case 10 years ago. 

Only under pressure we can get things done in this country.

 

If the 2 front war is with coalition of Pak/Ban and India...then yes, we can beat both. Bangladesh, comfortably...Pakistan will effort but yes.
Throw China in the mix then forget about 2 front war, even one front war will be a challenge. Even if their weapons/army isn't "battle tested", their overwhelming numbers can easily drain our defences. 

China has started investing in RnD since 1970's and it's only by 2010s when they picked up pace, Xi is going to end his tenure as one of the biggest leaders in the Chinese history. They got blessings from US as well.
India started investing only few years back, and majority of our population is freeloader with no real skill. Our defence industry is in infancy and our workforce is extremely slow, no wonder why we import heavily instead of developing indigenous tech. But we're limited with the GDP of our country as well...China is easily 3x or 4x times bigger. 

People becoming aware is fine, but question is how we can solve this ? Naval Submarine issues will take a decade atleast, so we're focussing on Warships, Frigates and Destroyers. Airpower needs indigenous tech and as a stop gap few 5th gen jets (we may get the deal done when Putin will come to India), Israel is also offering sky stinger missiles (coz we goofed up Astra mk2 due to israeli radar), Gandiv is still few years away. Less said about Tejas Mk2 and AMCA the better. 

Best and easiest option is to increase the missile stockpile. That's in our hand. Build multiple stockpiles of Agni missiles (in hundreds for each variant) while cruise missiles should be in thousands. That won't necessarily defeat China but will keep them wary of the retaliation. Once missile numbers are up, you'll time to think and strategize the next action, whether to invest on INS Vishaal or on AMCA or on Tejas mk2.