Tracking Ashwin and Jadeja career analysis on non turners overall

[Majestic]

Note that this thread isn’t to demean any player but just an attempt to try and track their career stats after leaving out the home series where turners were  commonly produced all these years.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;series=10317;series=11303;series=11592;series=13809;series=15172;series=16435;series=7977;team=6;template=results;type=allround
 

The test series I have selected that I feel were very spin friendly ones are :-

 

India vs Australia 2013

India vs South Africa 2015

India vs New Zealand 2016

India vs Australia 2017

India vs England 2021

India vs Australia 2023

India vs New Zealand 2024

 

Ashwin - 26 matches, wkts 174, bowl avg 18.7

Jadeja - 22 matches, wkts 124, bowl avg 17.97

 

Now, if we remove these series and look at their career avgs,

 

Ashwin 363 wkts, bowl avg 26.39

Jadeja 206 wkts, bowl avg 29.48

 

So, it seems if we assume they played on mostly balanced pitches and no real series that was extremely spin friendly, Ashwin would have been 26 average level bowler and Jadeja would have been 29 averaging bowler.
 

Do note the stats of Indian batsmen also during these series- Kohli averages 35, Pujara 49 , Rahane and Rahul over lesser sample 38 and 37 respectively. Jadeja averages 25 on these turners so his batting avg might have been better if we exclude them( probably 40+).

 

Thoughts?

[vvvslaxman]

Is it to justify the sucking of our batsmen on Indian pitches? lol I know Axar Patel outplayed our superstars in one of the series. Without Jadeja/Ashwin, India could not have dominated. Besides, Ashwin did well in Sri Lanka and the West Indies (when they had a decent team) as well. 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

How was Ind-NZ 2016 highly spin friendly ones where Pujara avg 74, Rahane 70, Sharma 80 and I saw Bhuvi destroying kiwis with 5-fer on one of the rare pace friendly pitches?

[BCCISelector]

These numbers reinforce why I never bought into the widely accepted opinion that Ashwin is a much superior bowler than Harbhajan. IMO, Ashwin and Harbhajan operated at similar skill levels, but Ashwin bowled more on dustbowls and against lower quality batters.

 

I think these dustbowls also made Ashwin and Jadeja regress as bowlers as they forgot how to "earn" wickets on normal pitches. That reflected in their below average performances in SENA countries and their diminishing effectiveness in white ball formats too.

[Trichromatic]

India vs Australia 2013 - even this one?

[Trichromatic]

5 minutes ago, BCCISelector said:

These numbers reinforce why I never bought into the widely accepted opinion that Ashwin is a much superior bowler than Harbhajan. IMO, Ashwin and Harbhajan operated at similar skill levels, but Ashwin bowled more on dustbowls and against lower quality batters.

 

I think these dustbowls also made Ashwin and Jadeja regress as bowlers as they forgot how to "earn" wickets on normal pitches. That reflected in their below average performances in SENA countries and their diminishing effectiveness in white ball formats too.

 

Ashwin was superior to Harbhajan just with his action.

[Majestic]

44 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Is it to justify the sucking of our batsmen on Indian pitches? lol I know Axar Patel outplayed our superstars in one of the series. Without Jadeja/Ashwin, India could not have dominated. Besides, Ashwin did well in Sri Lanka and the West Indies (when they had a decent team) as well. 

 

 

Yeah after removing these turning pitches, Ashwin averages 26 still so he is certainly a great bowler. Point is more about the advantage that Ashwin and Jadeja enjoyed by playing on those spin friendly pitches. 
 

I remember you were adamant on how Kapil Dev is greater than Jadeja as test all rounder and Jadeja benefited heavily by turning pitches so this is an attempt to balance out the advantage that he and Ashwin got.

[Majestic]

25 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

How was Ind-NZ 2016 highly spin friendly ones where Pujara avg 74, Rahane 70, Sharma 80 and I saw Bhuvi destroying kiwis with 5-fer on one of the rare pace friendly pitches?

1st and 3rd test were spin friendly. Kohli and Rahane scored a lot in final test because NZ lost the momentum completely and the pitch had eased out when those two were batting. It is overall debatable but still spin friendly if not turners.

[Majestic]

28 minutes ago, BCCISelector said:

These numbers reinforce why I never bought into the widely accepted opinion that Ashwin is a much superior bowler than Harbhajan. IMO, Ashwin and Harbhajan operated at similar skill levels, but Ashwin bowled more on dustbowls and against lower quality batters.

 

I think these dustbowls also made Ashwin and Jadeja regress as bowlers as they forgot how to "earn" wickets on normal pitches. That reflected in their below average performances in SENA countries and their diminishing effectiveness in white ball formats too.

But after removing these turners, Ashwin still averages 26. Harbhajan was at 32. So, not sure these numbers are reinforcing what you want to reinforce from them.

[vvvslaxman]

32 minutes ago, BCCISelector said:

These numbers reinforce why I never bought into the widely accepted opinion that Ashwin is a much superior bowler than Harbhajan. IMO, Ashwin and Harbhajan operated at similar skill levels, but Ashwin bowled more on dustbowls and against lower quality batters.

 

I think these dustbowls also made Ashwin and Jadeja regress as bowlers as they forgot how to "earn" wickets on normal pitches. That reflected in their below average performances in SENA countries and their diminishing effectiveness in white ball formats too.

Bhajji and Ashwin played a few tests together. Ashwin totally obliterated Bhajji in those tests

[vvvslaxman]

Since 2010 Ashwin andnLyon have been the best in Srilanka, Bangladesh and windies. Ash averages 4 points less than Lyon those parts for an away spinner. 

Not sure what is the point of analysis. We  had similar pitches against NZ we got shellacking because  for the first time Ash and Jaddu did not contribute with bat.

[Trichromatic]

17 minutes ago, Majestic said:

1st and 3rd test were spin friendly. Kohli and Rahane scored a lot in final test because NZ lost the momentum completely and the pitch had eased out when those two were batting. It is overall debatable but still spin friendly if not turners.

 

I see how you're turning your stance where you started with series which are very spin friendly one and calling a test where India scored 550-5 as very spin friendly one and not a flat pitch.

 

Good going.

[Trichromatic]

Even in first test India had scored 370-5 in 2nd inning

[Majestic]

12 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

I see how you're turning your stance where you started with series which are very spin friendly one and calling a test where India scored 550-5 as very spin friendly one and not a flat pitch.

 

Good going.

All the series mentioned are spin friendly and benefitted spinners heavily. They were not good contest between bat and ball and heavily favoured towards spinners. One flat pitch don’t change the series overall reality. 2023 Aus series had one flat pitch too in a dead rubber.

Edited October 4, 2025 by Majestic

[Majestic]

17 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Since 2010 Ashwin andnLyon have been the best in Srilanka, Bangladesh and windies. Ash averages 4 points less than Lyon those parts for an away spinner. 

Not sure what is the point of analysis. We  had similar pitches against NZ we got shellacking because  for the first time Ash and Jaddu did not contribute with bat.

The pitches against NZ were heavily tilted towards spinners and Ashwin’s decline coincided with peak form of NZ spinners and it allowed NZ to run the game away as they kept the momentum on their side. You are just not willing to accept facts, perhaps not able to digest them.

[Trichromatic]

5 minutes ago, Majestic said:

All the series mentioned are spin friendly and benefitted spinners heavily. They were not good contest between bat and ball and heavily favoured towards spinners. One flat pitch don’t change the series overall reality. 2023 Aus series had one flat pitch too in a dead rubber.

Which pitch favoured spinners heavily?

 

How did India score 370-5 on a pitch favouring spinners heavily on day 3 and 4?

[Trichromatic]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

The pitches against NZ were heavily tilted towards spinners and Ashwin’s decline coincided with peak form of NZ spinners and it allowed NZ to run the game away as they kept the momentum on their side. You are just not willing to accept facts, perhaps not able to digest them.

Saying 2016 NZ and 2013 Aus were heavily favouring spinners is nothing but dishonesty.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

The pitches against NZ were heavily tilted towards spinners and Ashwin’s decline coincided with peak form of NZ spinners and it allowed NZ to run the game away as they kept the momentum on their side. You are just not willing to accept facts, perhaps not able to digest them.

 

I woud put the blame on batting more. India has collapsed in Bangladesh 74/7 Ashwin bailed us out. Then against Bangladesh in India we collapsed once again Ashwin and Jadeja put on a  big partnership, There was one test against Australia India collapsed badly then Axar and Ashwin added 100 runs. This NZ series is the first series where both went missing with bat. In his yT channel he even mentioned thatt his non contribution with bat hurt him the most. Our tail bailed us out so many times at home. 

[Majestic]

35 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Which pitch favoured spinners heavily?

 

How did India score 370-5 on a pitch favouring spinners heavily on day 3 and 4?

It is possible when opposition don’t have half decent spinners. On pitches where spinners are expected to be the main guys, India will always have a major advantage because there are barely 1-2 good spinners in most part of the world.
 

So, India can still find a way to score lot of runs and often the momentum plays a key role in a test match . A pitch might have started to offer more turn and rough might be built but if bowlers are tired and game has drifted away, it becomes hard for them. So, lack of good spinners( forget great) and often momentum plays a role where a batting side can score runs but that doesn’t mean the pitch wasn’t spin friendly.

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, Majestic said:

It is possible when opposition don’t have half decent spinners. On pitches where spinners are expected to be the main guys, India will always have a major advantage because there are barely 1-2 good spinners in most part of the world.
 

So, India can still find a way to score lot of runs and often the momentum plays a key role in a test match . A pitch might have started to offer more turn and rough might be built but if bowlers are tired and game has drifted away, it becomes hard for them. So, lack of good spinners( forget great) and often momentum plays a role where a batting side can score runs but that doesn’t mean the pitch wasn’t spin friendly.

 

Actually Ashwin does well on tracks that slightly turn. Not too much turn. You can check all is dismissals. Mostly just turns enough.

 

Here he dismisses Alistair cook exactly the same way in both innings at the Edgbaston. It just turns enough.

 

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQFGwClcMYY