Our pacers getting outbowled by visiting pacers consistently now

[Suhaan]

59 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Domestic scene is pretty bare when it comes to good fast bowlers.

 

Even so called good swing bowlers are non existent.  There are not even Boobie bhaiya, RP Singh level talent or Shami Umesh Aaron type guys in FC cricket anymore.

 

There are few but extremely raw and barely given opportunity at highest level.

 

Condition of FC cricket is pretty dire in the country.

 

Let's hope we find couple of good ones in the U19 set up

 

Deepesh Devendran of TN is hyped to be a skillful bowler in U19 set up.

Aaron also remained mostly injured,his career was infact derailed by injuries whenever he started to play

Played 2015 test series vs SA and bowled well at Bangalore but unfortunately got injured and never returned 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Domestic scene is pretty bare when it comes to good fast bowlers.

 

Even so called good swing bowlers are non existent.  There are not even Boobie bhaiya, RP Singh level talent or Shami Umesh Aaron type guys in FC cricket anymore.

 

There are few but extremely raw and barely given opportunity at highest level.

 

Bro...I think we have the bowlers. Its just that due to advent of IPL, the focus is heavily on the T20 style gimmicky bowlers instead of the ones who are doing hard yards.

 

Likes of Sandeep Sharma, Bhuvi, Ishant etc dont play long formats. But in the greed of IPL they play SMAT..hog the space and dont allow the young pacers to grow and get limelight.....

[Lone Wolf]

36 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Bro...I think we have the bowlers. Its just that due to advent of IPL, the focus is heavily on the T20 style gimmicky bowlers instead of the ones who are doing hard yards.

 

Likes of Sandeep Sharma, Bhuvi, Ishant etc dont play long formats. But in the greed of IPL they play SMAT..hog the space and dont allow the young pacers to grow and get limelight.....

Could be the reason but I feel domestic standards have fallen drastically in last 5-6 years..

 

A domestic stalwart is beyond awful whenever he is exposed to International stage.

 

Poor Pitches, too many sides, poor management at grassroots level,  lack of good selectors since age group cricket... Unable to filter out International level talent has led to all this.

Excel sheet selections are still happening.

 

There should not be more than 10 teams in Ranji Trophy Elite ideally if we want to improve standards.  Same goes with SMAT, VHT.

 

Hate to say it but IPL remains best source to identify even test cricketers in the country, their range, game against pace/spin/pressure handling all gets tested there..

 

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Could be the reason but I feel domestic standards have fallen drastically in last 5-6 years..

 

A domestic stalwart is beyond awful whenever he is exposed to International stage.

 

Poor Pitches, too many sides, poor management at grassroots level,  lack of good selectors since age group cricket... Unable to filter out International level talent has led to all this.

Excel sheet selections are still happening.

 

There should not be more than 10 teams in Ranji Trophy Elite ideally if we want to improve standards.  Same goes with SMAT, VHT.

 

Hate to say it but IPL remains best source to identify even test cricketers in the country, their range, game against pace/spin/pressure handling all gets tested there..

 

There was an effort made to improve domestic fc standard after 2011/12 8-0 debacle,but over the years ,it was just going through motions no efforts made to improve  pitches,grounds

Nothing was done to inspire young cricketers to play red ball cricket,IPL has grown massively and i process they have abandoned the idea of taking a long and hard road of developing red ball cricketers 

[putrevus]

17 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes mentioned this multiple time faster bowlers do not get FC games, they prove to be counter productive. Have posted that why they are expensive in FCC.

 

Isant had multiple up and down before he became a reliable bowler for Ind in tests, Same with Umesh he was out of Ind team and then under Kolhi and sastri both got chances and Improved.

 

As said Ind wasted time with RA/LA nothing kind of bowlers when it was losing Isnat and  Umesh.

 

Guys like Umran/Sen/Harshit/Simar/Barar/Yudvir/Arsad/Arora/Yash Thakur(tests)  <-- They all have bit of spar and basic ingredients 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They were not losing with either Ishant  or Umesh. Shami was the best fast bowler when he played in World Cup.

 

i have not seen Simran or Yash Thakur so can’t comment on them.

 

Umran, Sen, Brar and Harshit are not the answers. 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Bro...I think we have the bowlers. Its just that due to advent of IPL, the focus is heavily on the T20 style gimmicky bowlers instead of the ones who are doing hard yards.

 

Likes of Sandeep Sharma, Bhuvi, Ishant etc dont play long formats. But in the greed of IPL they play SMAT..hog the space and dont allow the young pacers to grow and get limelight.....

Young players have enough matches to prove their potential, they don’t need to grudge guys like Ishant or Bhuvi for taking their places.

 

Any young fast bowler should be aiming and also told they have play FC to build endurance and learn the art of taking wickets.

Just playing t20s will make them useless.

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Young players have enough matches to prove their potential, they don’t need to grudge guys like Ishant or Bhuvi for taking their places.

 

Any young fast bowler should be aiming and also told they have play FC to build endurance and learn the art of taking wickets.

Just playing t20s will make them useless.

 

Gurnoor played 12 FC games last Ranji..picked 33 wkts with an avg of 25.xx

This season too he has played all games for Punjab and also represented India A against SA A and Aus A, he was also part of ROI squad against Vidarbha...so he is playing games wherever possible.

 

Prithviraj Yarra is another left arm who avg under 25 in all 3 formats...he played 23 games as well.

 

Yudhvir played 7 games last FC..took 26 ekts with an avg of 28.00 and delivered match winning performance vs Mumbai. This season too he has played 2 games for JnK and has taken 11 wkts, with a 5fer vs Mumbai..before being called for India A duties where he warmed bench.

 

Both Gurnoor & Yudhvir were on fringes due to presence of sr. Pacers like Sid Kaul & Ram Dayal respectively...Once they retired then these guys got a consistent opportunity.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

20 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They were not losing with either Ishant  or Umesh. Shami was the best fast bowler when he played in World Cup.

 

i have not seen Simran or Yash Thakur so can’t comment on them.

 

Umran, Sen, Brar and Harshit are not the answers. 

Then we dont have any bowlers left...lets pack the bags and replace bowlers with bowling machines.

[Lone Wolf]

40 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

There was an effort made to improve domestic fc standard after 2011/12 8-0 debacle,but over the years ,it was just going through motions no efforts made to improve  pitches,grounds

Nothing was done to inspire young cricketers to play red ball cricket,IPL has grown massively and i process they have abandoned the idea of taking a long and hard road of developing red ball cricketers 

Yep media and ex players sell this churan India has best FC structure to gullible masses...

Compared to England Australia SA NZ .. it's still beyond awful 

 

Even Pooks decided to limit the number of Domestic sides to improve standards and if not for shortage of funds and instability in the country in general their administrators seem to be more in sync with adopting modern ideas.

 

BCCI is led by Dehati low IQ people 

Edited November 29, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Gurnoor Brar has played so many FC games ? Are you thinking about some other Brar ?

He is a regular for Punjab since last year FC and has consistently bowled lot of overs for India A as well.

I am sorry I meant he played one List A match. He  did play 17 FC matches my bad.

[putrevus]

21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Then we dont have any bowlers left...lets pack the bags and replace bowlers with bowling machines.

Then we will get these uneven results till we find someone good.

[tapandrun]

31 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They were not losing with either Ishant  or Umesh. Shami was the best fast bowler when he played in World Cup.

 

i have not seen Simran or Yash Thakur so can’t comment on them.

 

Umran, Sen, Brar and Harshit are not the answers. 

Dint say Ind was losing with Isant/Umesh, said ind team was not Inducting new pacer when it was losing them (due to retirements/age/or phashing-out).

 

Ind does nt have a test ready pacer right now- Best bet would have been Akash deep, Yash Thakur they play FCC. But after 1st few games Akash lost the Zip.

Yash Thakur heard he has improved but In emg. asia cup still looks samething, may be t20 is not his format.

 

There are some waves in the media these days about Auib Nabi but he does not have pace for Intnl test cricket. He is mostly sub 130 kmph.

Media was also building up Kambooj who was clocking 135-137 kmph in IPL(t20s), its always fair to assume they will lose bit of pace in Odis and lose bit more pace in Test, thats what happened to him.

 

There are no test ready pacers right now that is a fact, and Ind team didnt develop a bowler in last 4-5 years is also a fact. They kept giving chances to same bowlers rinse and repeat kind of thing who never imporved.

 

Khaleel came back into Ind A sides what improvements has he shown. Avesh was dropped/rested after that T20 Asia cup and then again he came back.. why ???

Saini kept getting into Ind A till last Aus A tour.....

 

The only bowler who could have done well in t20i format was Mukesh, but he was more or less LA/RA nothing bowler in test and Odis but they kept selecting him.

 

There is no quick-fox to the issue of lack of test level fast bowlers in Ind , either they need to develop some or just give chances to trundlers from domestics who are just there to get the ball old so that spinner can come into play.

 

 

 

[putrevus]

25 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Gurnoor played 12 FC games last Ranji..picked 33 wkts with an avg of 25.xx

This season too he has played all games for Punjab and also represented India A against SA A and Aus A, he was also part of ROI squad against Vidarbha...so he is playing games wherever possible.

 

Prithviraj Yarra is another left arm who avg under 25 in all 3 formats...he played 23 games as well.

 

Yudhvir played 7 games last FC..took 26 ekts with an avg of 28.00 and delivered match winning performance vs Mumbai. This season too he has played 2 games for JnK and has taken 11 wkts, with a 5fer vs Mumbai..before being called for India A duties where he warmed bench.

 

Both Gurnoor & Yudhvir were on fringes due to presence of sr. Pacers like Sid Kaul & Ram Dayal respectively...Once they retired then these guys got a consistent opportunity.

 

 

I have not seen them so cannot comment on them.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Dint say Ind was losing with Isant/Umesh, said ind team was not Inducting new pacer when it was losing them (due to retirements/age/or phashing-out).

 

Ind does nt have a test ready pacer right now- Best bet would have been Akash deep, Yash Thakur they play FCC. But after 1st few games Akash lost the Zip.

Yash Thakur heard he has improved but In emg. asia cup still looks samething, may be t20 is not his format.

 

There are some waves in the media these days about Auib Nabi but he does not have pace for Intnl test cricket. He is mostly sub 130 kmph.

Media was also building up Kambooj who was clocking 135-137 kmph in IPL(t20s), its always fair to assume they will lose bit of pace in Odis and lose bit more pace in Test, thats what happened to him.

 

There are no test ready pacers right now that is a fact, and Ind team didnt develop a bowler in last 4-5 years is also a fact. They kept giving chances to same bowlers rinse and repeat kind of thing who never imporved.

 

Khaleel came back into Ind A sides what improvements has he shown. Avesh was dropped/rested after that T20 Asia cup and then again he came back.. why ???

Saini kept getting into Ind A till last Aus A tour.....

 

The only bowler who could have done well in t20i format was Mukesh, but he was more or less LA/RA nothing bowler in test and Odis but they kept selecting him.

 

There is no quick-fox to the issue of lack of test level fast bowlers in Ind , either they need to develop some or just give chances to trundlers from domestics who are just there to get the ball old so that spinner can come into play.

 

 

 

Umesh and Shami were so far better in talent than these guys. Everyone understands they need matches to improve but with all the ipl teams and if these guys are not able to even find places in IPL teams then something is wrong somewhere.

 

IPL teams are giving contracts to even third class fast bowlers so are they even worse than them???

 

Khaleel was fast tracked without any real development due to Dravid, he is very limited bowler even now.

 

There is nothing called test ready, if they have raw tools they will be refined once they start playing they don't have to play 50 FC matches one season is more than enough, they will have growing pains everyone understands.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

8 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

There is no quick-fox to the issue of lack of test level fast bowlers in Ind , either they need to develop some or just give chances to trundlers from domestics who are just there to get the ball old so that spinner can come into play.

 

We have to take the hard pill.

Play youngsters who are under 25 years of age and hope that by the time they turn 28-29, they will learn the skill and can serve the team for next 4-5 years.

 

Ishant was inducted at age of 19, Bumrah by 22-23, Shami was 23, Umesh was 23...

They all took their time but served decently.

 

Siraj in comparison became a regular by age of 27, he is already 31...just a couple of years and he too will lose his zip...just one injury away. Akashdeep got chances at age of 27, Prasidh around 27...Mukesh 31. 

 

Harshit is the only pacer who is under 25 and has played Tests...instead of building on that experience TM ditched him in search of a new fancy name..and they got Kambojh.

 

No clue about Mayank and his long term fitness for Tests...but our Test bowling seriously need an overhaul. T20 & ODI bowling can still survive courtesy of our ability to read conditions...but in Tests, you've to be a performer for all 5 days. 

[tapandrun]

Standards have not fallen-off, its been always like that. Domestic is reflection of Intnl team demands.

 

Ind team under Dravid and Rohit shifted towards ~140 kmphish bowlers (not 140 or 140+) who can bowl some yorkers. This was to address the T20i.

Not sure but think there should have been some data that ~140 kmph bowlers with some ability to bowl yorkers do well in t20s hence they selected bowlers like Mukesh, Avesh, Arash ...etc..... This is v.specific t20 need, but it went into the test side also..... and that tm never looked to develop any fast bowler...

 

A 140-144/145 kmph bowler with ability to bowl yorkers can be really good in t20s. so Ind selection towards those bowlers was not bad. But only Mukesh was and Arash were those kind of t20 bowlers..

 

In test we need proper faster bowler can get pace/bounce and zip costistently and can sustain it for longer period of time .

 

Now that Ind team is looking for taller/fasters bowlers we are seeing domestic side trying to bring back tall and fast bowler --- Yarra/Ashok/Barar/Tom/Rana/Pradish etc ... all are example of it.

 

 

Does Ind have bowlers who can crank-up pace --yes, Do Ind have test fast bowlers who can bowl longer and match win test matches --no.

 

Give chances to bowlers who at-least have some basic ingredientent rather than going back to LA/RA nothing bowlers.

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

We have to take the hard pill.

Play youngsters who are under 25 years of age and hope that by the time they turn 28-29, they will learn the skill and can serve the team for next 4-5 years.

 

Ishant was inducted at age of 19, Bumrah by 22-23, Shami was 23, Umesh was 23...

They all took their time but served decently.

 

Siraj in comparison became a regular by age of 27, he is already 31...just a couple of years and he too will lose his zip...just one injury away. Akashdeep got chances at age of 27, Prasidh around 27...Mukesh 31. 

 

Harshit is the only pacer who is under 25 and has played Tests...instead of building on that experience TM ditched him in search of a new fancy name..and they got Kambojh.

 

No clue about Mayank and his long term fitness for Tests...but our Test bowling seriously need an overhaul. T20 & ODI bowling can still survive courtesy of our ability to read conditions...but in Tests, you've to be a performer for all 5 days. 

I think that would be the biggest mistake, you are already seeing the disaster in batting in name of giving youngsters a chance they selected awful batsmen who are not even fit to be playing in international cricket.

 

India has  FC structure and other avenues to test and  identify decent bowling and batting talents.

 

You don't have to throw random guys who have no chance to succeed.

 

Guys getting debut at 19-23 are mostly cannot miss talents, those talents will find their way.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

IPL teams are giving contracts to even third class fast bowlers so are they even worse than them???

 

IPL pitches are either flat patta or spin friendly...you wont see many seam friendly or bounce friendly pitches in IPL.

 

Chinnaswamy is the only stadium where RCB goes for bounce while GT opts for seam friendly pitches in Ahmedabad at times. But Stadiums like Chennai, Jaipur, Lucknow, Eden Gardens which are big in size go for spin friendly pitches...where either spinners or the so called "cutter" bowlers work.

 

IPL simply offer nothing for pace bowlers. The aggressive bowlers are all foreigners which Indians are given job to contain using spin and medium pace. Bumrah is the only enforcer in entire IPL.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

IPL pitches are either flat patta or spin friendly...you wont see many seam friendly or bounce friendly pitches in IPL.

 

Chinnaswamy is the only stadium where RCB goes for bounce while GT opts for seam friendly pitches in Ahmedabad at times. But Stadiums like Chennai, Jaipur, Lucknow, Eden Gardens which are big in size go for spin friendly pitches...where either spinners or the so called "cutter" bowlers work.

 

IPL simply offer nothing for pace bowlers. The aggressive bowlers are all foreigners which Indians are given job to contain using spin and medium pace. Bumrah is the only enforcer in entire IPL.

It is not about them giving runs or taking wickets, it is about them getting chances with IPL teams,.

 

Why are these youngsters not getting those chances.Bumrah was playing for Mumbai since 2014 if I am not wrong.

 

Are they not being scouted or being left out for any other reasons.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I think that would be the biggest mistake, you are already seeing the disaster in batting in name of giving youngsters a chance they selected awful batsmen who are not even fit to be playing in international cricket.

 

India has  FC structure and other avenues to test and  identify decent bowling and batting talents.

 

You don't have to throw random guys who have no chance to succeed.

 

Guys getting debut at 19-23 are mostly cannot miss talents, those talents will find their way.

Not saying that...what I meant was identify your next gen pacers early and give them every possible exposure at the highest level...instead of toiling them in domestics.

 

2018 we had Nagarkoti, Mavi

2020 we had Tyagi, Sushant

2022 we had Hangargekar, Bawa

2024 we had Naman Tiwari, Raj Limbani

 

Surely, some of them are injured. But its a travesty that from last 4 U19 editions we were able to groom only one bowler..I.e. Arshdeep, and he too only for T20s coz he has the ability to move the new ball and bowl yorkers. Plus Arshdeep too is an IPL product coz Punjab didnt had bowlers.

 

If we are not even able to groom the U19 pacers, how will we be able develop the FC pacers ? At this moment it seems selectors are just praying if someone performs and then they'll milk him till eternity.