G_B_ Posted December 10, 2025 Posted December 10, 2025 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/12/10/china-will-destroy-us-military-fight-over-taiwan/ Sensationalist headline but its the way global warfare is moving. Missiles, air defences drones... Our 1 million + soldiers at this point are simply resource sponges Vk1 1
singhvivek141 Posted December 12, 2025 Posted December 12, 2025 Indian Navy Eyes 24/7 Underwater Nuclear Vigilance with Fourth SSBN S4* Induction by Late 2026 https://defence.in/threads/indian-navy-eyes-24-7-underwater-nuclear-vigilance-with-fourth-ssbn-s4-induction-by-late-2026.16215/ I dont get this, we have capability to produce indigenous SSBNs, then why we are relying on Germans and French for SSKs and SSNs. SSBNs are more complex in comparison to the other two.
Lone Wolf Posted December 12, 2025 Posted December 12, 2025 (edited) 31 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Indian Navy Eyes 24/7 Underwater Nuclear Vigilance with Fourth SSBN S4* Induction by Late 2026 https://defence.in/threads/indian-navy-eyes-24-7-underwater-nuclear-vigilance-with-fourth-ssbn-s4-induction-by-late-2026.16215/ I dont get this, we have capability to produce indigenous SSBNs, then why we are relying on Germans and French for SSKs and SSNs. SSBNs are more complex in comparison to the other two. SSN needs far more powerful and complex reactors... The overall endeavour is extremely costly. High powered diesel engines as fall back are far from indigenous yet and advanced alloys and stuff. We are far away in that regard when it comes to global top dogs. Germans and French are the benchmark. SSK's need resource allocation which is taken over by SSBN and SSN mostly. AIP integration remains a challenge & with compact Diesel systems it is bigger challenge. SSBN are easier to build comparatively for us. Russians have helped us massively over the years in reactor technology. Most factors are cost, design and dedication related tbh Edited December 12, 2025 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted December 12, 2025 Posted December 12, 2025 First SSN at current rate may not come before 2038 realistically... SSK's are high priority at the moment and it should be that way as well. I think Pooks will get VLS tech from Turks by the time we get our AIP submarines.
singhvivek141 Posted December 12, 2025 Posted December 12, 2025 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: SSN needs far more powerful and complex reactors... The overall endeavour is extremely costly. High powered diesel engines as fall back are far from indigenous yet and advanced alloys and stuff. We are far away in that regard when it comes to global top dogs. Germans and French are the benchmark. SSK's need resource allocation which is taken over by SSBN and SSN mostly. AIP integration remains a challenge & with compact Diesel systems it is bigger challenge. SSBN are easier to build comparatively for us. Russians have helped us massively over the years in reactor technology. Most factors are cost, design and dedication related tbh Our current SSBNs are slower and lower in capability. But that doesnt stop us from building it...INS Aridhamaan is much more capable in comparison to Arighaat and Arihant. We should have started that way with SSNs as well...build smaller, low capability but large quantity of boats. When our production line for surface ships can do so well that now we can produce indigenous ships on demand. We should have continued with SSNs and SSKs as well. Be it low capacity, but build in bulk. Distributed lethality is the new form of warfare. Edited December 12, 2025 by singhvivek141
Lone Wolf Posted December 12, 2025 Posted December 12, 2025 (edited) 2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: We should have started that way with SSNs as well...build smaller, low capability but large quantity of boats. They probably would have if they had capabilities and funds to go with it... As mentioned the SSN program is costliest & has almost Aircraft carrier esque costs. Project 76 would shatter records already folks have started to have cold sweats after seeing projected costs of German SSK's in Project 75I. Hopefully the deal gets signed in this financial year itself. SSN they probably didn't need them in the immediate (talking about this decade) Also GoI & MoD has been pretty lethargic when it comes to our aging Submarine fleet. This is the only front where Navy Admirals are truly helpless as they simply don't have the say in MoD to allocate those huge funds. Edited December 12, 2025 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted December 12, 2025 Posted December 12, 2025 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: They probably would have if they had capabilities and funds to go with it... As mentioned the SSN program is costliest & has almost Aircraft carrier esque costs. Project 76 would shatter records already folks have started to have cold sweats after seeing projected costs of German SSK's in Project 75I. Hopefully the deal gets signed in this financial year itself. SSN they probably didn't need them in the immediate (talking about this decade) Also GoI & MoD has been pretty lethargic when it comes to our aging Submarine fleet. This is the only front where Navy Admirals are truly helpless as they simply don't have the say in MoD to allocate those huge funds. Fund will always be a challenge. Army takes 50-55% of budget (to some extent rightly as well), IAF takes up 25-30%, leaving only 15-20% for Navy. All 3 wings have their purpose though Army takes care of immediate borders...IAF provides regional dominance while Navy is for global power projection capability. India is somewhere between one and two...where regional dominance is our next step...for that IAF needs immediate funds. Once both Army & Air Force are sorted then Navy will get some attention.
Lone Wolf Posted December 12, 2025 Posted December 12, 2025 (edited) 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Fund will always be a challenge. Army takes 50-55% of budget (to some extent rightly as well), IAF takes up 25-30%, leaving only 15-20% for Navy. All 3 wings have their purpose though Army takes care of immediate borders...IAF provides regional dominance while Navy is for global power projection capability. India is somewhere between one and two...where regional dominance is our next step...for that IAF needs immediate funds. Once both Army & Air Force are sorted then Navy will get some attention. That's why Pooks getting those Hangor class AIP subs has probably given danda to entire MoD to speed up Project 75I and release the damn funds.... It has been in limbo for 20 years now. Now obviously the costs post COVID have skyrocketed. A single french SSN with AIP & VLS tech most probably would be 3 billion dollars worth alone.. Sometimes I think If there was no Pookistan... Our Babus and leaders would have made us next Kazakhstan or something Edited December 12, 2025 by Lone Wolf
kepler37b Posted December 13, 2025 Posted December 13, 2025 This is a good start. Want to see more and more indic-ization of the land of pure.
kepler37b Posted December 13, 2025 Posted December 13, 2025 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/it-is-ours-too-pakistan-brings-back-sanskrit-plans-bhagavad-gita-mahabharata-studies-9800672?pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll
Lone Wolf Posted December 13, 2025 Posted December 13, 2025 (edited) 300 might be a small number but it's a start. Also not like we are flying 250+ Sukhois at once. Sukhois being BVR naked was its biggest disadvantage. Also reconfirms that Astra Mk2 is 2 still years away minimum. F16 vs MKI now it's going tie be fun once again. Bring back the dogfight Edited December 13, 2025 by Lone Wolf G_B_ 1
G_B_ Posted December 13, 2025 Posted December 13, 2025 Local production would be in mind with the r37m, hence only 300 orders. Mki with r37m and new radar talking to s400 will be a beast
G_B_ Posted December 16, 2025 Posted December 16, 2025 This is cherry picking to be honest. Army is on cusp of 120km pinaka orders. Further k9 orders were placed this year. Niligiri class frigates are also joining the navy. Army has also placed huge order on drones recently (5000 crore) We are waiting for netra to be integrated onto an airbus platform.
Lone Wolf Posted December 16, 2025 Posted December 16, 2025 (edited) 2 hours ago, G_B_ said: This is cherry picking to be honest. Army is on cusp of 120km pinaka orders. Further k9 orders were placed this year. Niligiri class frigates are also joining the navy. Army has also placed huge order on drones recently (5000 crore) We are waiting for netra to be integrated onto an airbus platform. 120km Pinaka is yet to be even in trial phase... It's quite far away from getting CCS clearance forget about orders. Nilgiri class are all part of older orders. 2027 is the timeline all those decades old orders will be completed. No new orders have been placed for a long time. As per reports Australians have already poached skilled Indian workforce for Submarine building coz of entire supply chain being idle. Manohar Parrikar warned about it years ago. The tweet is factually correct except his assessment that India was ever seriously considering Su57. Last time India ordered AWACs was in 2008 (3 Netra ones).. all this while we were twiddling our thumbs really. Now Netra next operational phase is in literal early 2030's. Edited December 16, 2025 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted December 18, 2025 Posted December 18, 2025 On 12/16/2025 at 11:03 PM, Lone Wolf said: 120km Pinaka is yet to be even in trial phase... It's quite far away from getting CCS clearance forget about orders. Nilgiri class are all part of older orders. 2027 is the timeline all those decades old orders will be completed. No new orders have been placed for a long time. As per reports Australians have already poached skilled Indian workforce for Submarine building coz of entire supply chain being idle. Manohar Parrikar warned about it years ago. The tweet is factually correct except his assessment that India was ever seriously considering Su57. Last time India ordered AWACs was in 2008 (3 Netra ones).. all this while we were twiddling our thumbs really. Now Netra next operational phase is in literal early 2030's. Navy Side...we have the orders done for Rafale-M and Seaguardian drones. The giri class orders is planned for completion by 2026 Aridhmaan and 4th SSBN will also be completed in 2026 as per Naval targets. Naval Chief told that India will induct one ship in every 40 days. We have inducted ASW ships in Nov..yeah the orders are older but we have a huge backlog. 2026 onwards the orders for AIP submarine is in pipeline. Similarly, for Netra mk1a...delivery is planned in 2026/27. I think you mentioned about Netra mk2 which is due to start from 2030, as it received its CCS approval in July. https://defence.in/threads/drdo-initiates-critical-phase-of-netra-mk2-inviting-private-sector-to-develop-antenna-metallic-hood.16255/ Pinaka ER trials will begin by Apr if I am not wrong. Induction will take time but CCS approvals can be accelerated if needed. Only cause of serious worry is IAF. They're really falling behind, Tejas mk1a is the only hope and its going painfully slow. Hoping that R37 integration will give the juice to firepower of Sukhoi.
Lone Wolf Posted December 18, 2025 Posted December 18, 2025 (edited) 23 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Navy Side...we have the orders done for Rafale-M and Seaguardian drones. The giri class orders is planned for completion by 2026 Aridhmaan and 4th SSBN will also be completed in 2026 as per Naval targets. Naval Chief told that India will induct one ship in every 40 days. We have inducted ASW ships in Nov..yeah the orders are older but we have a huge backlog. 2026 onwards the orders for AIP submarine is in pipeline. Similarly, for Netra mk1a...delivery is planned in 2026/27. I think you mentioned about Netra mk2 which is due to start from 2030, as it received its CCS approval in July. https://defence.in/threads/drdo-initiates-critical-phase-of-netra-mk2-inviting-private-sector-to-develop-antenna-metallic-hood.16255/ Pinaka ER trials will begin by Apr if I am not wrong. Induction will take time but CCS approvals can be accelerated if needed. Only cause of serious worry is IAF. They're really falling behind, Tejas mk1a is the only hope and its going painfully slow. Hoping that R37 integration will give the juice to firepower of Sukhoi. Painful stuff if you read... This is as recent as they come. https://sharpbyswarajya.substack.com/p/south-korea-has-21-submarines-india The MDL chairman admitted in 2022 that French engineers would shut their laptops the moment Indian staff got close during missile-firing trials. Reference data, certification parameters, empirical testing knowledge — none of it was shared. India couldn’t modify a single line in the drawings without sending it back to France for approval. Meanwhile, Project 75I spent fifteen years drifting between bureaucratic checkpoints. As of December 2025, not one steel plate has been cut. The contract with Germany’s TKMS might finally get signed in 2026. The first boat won’t arrive before 2032. Nine years later, India has added exactly zero new submarines to its conventional pipeline beyond what was already under construction when Parrikar spoke. Netra Mk1a deliveries are slated to be completed by 2030 it was 5 years upgradation timeline.. it was signed in March 2025. 17 long years of wait after 2008. We had no buisness having inferior AWACS capability in response to Pooks. Netra Mk2 are slated to be completed in mid 2030's tentatively. https://defence.in/threads/india-to-nearly-triple-its-aew-c-fleet-with-12-new-netra-mk1a-and-mk2-closing-critical-surveillance-gap-with-china.13596/ Edited December 18, 2025 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted December 19, 2025 Posted December 19, 2025 10 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Painful stuff if you read... This is as recent as they come. https://sharpbyswarajya.substack.com/p/south-korea-has-21-submarines-india The MDL chairman admitted in 2022 that French engineers would shut their laptops the moment Indian staff got close during missile-firing trials. Reference data, certification parameters, empirical testing knowledge — none of it was shared. India couldn’t modify a single line in the drawings without sending it back to France for approval. Meanwhile, Project 75I spent fifteen years drifting between bureaucratic checkpoints. As of December 2025, not one steel plate has been cut. The contract with Germany’s TKMS might finally get signed in 2026. The first boat won’t arrive before 2032. Nine years later, India has added exactly zero new submarines to its conventional pipeline beyond what was already under construction when Parrikar spoke. Netra Mk1a deliveries are slated to be completed by 2030 it was 5 years upgradation timeline.. it was signed in March 2025. 17 long years of wait after 2008. We had no buisness having inferior AWACS capability in response to Pooks. Netra Mk2 are slated to be completed in mid 2030's tentatively. https://defence.in/threads/india-to-nearly-triple-its-aew-c-fleet-with-12-new-netra-mk1a-and-mk2-closing-critical-surveillance-gap-with-china.13596/ Submarine problem is acknowledged. The push for indigenous capability has slow things down, but thats bound to happen. We have received 80% or more indigenizations with surface warships...underwater is where we are stuck. Recently Moscow has again offered to upgrade the 6 Sindhughosh class submarines, but Navy is yet to confirm on it. I dont think Netra mk2 will take that much time, Netra mk1a will start deliveries by 2026-27 and probably end by 2029-30. Post which Netra mk2 will begin by 2031 and end by 2034-35. Problem is though the funds, we are not increasing the Defence budget %...which is still stuck to 1.3-1.5%....we have to make it atleast 2.5%...while with our increase in economy, that 1.5% number will increase. But still, that rate of increase is lot slower. Thankfully, our exports have increased now...from mere 600 cr in 2014 to 25000 in 2025 with target of 50k CR by 2030. Increase in exports will motivate and bring in more funds.
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