singhvivek141 Posted January 14 Posted January 14 2 hours ago, rangeelaraja said: Bhai, do you think the Russians have milked us any less ? Their hardware has very high operating and maintenance cost and most of their planes have low availability rate due to maintenance. We have only ourselves to blame and not the French. Why would they freely share the source code when it can potentially make their planes vulnerable to S400s and S500s ? By having so many platforms, we have created a holy mess for ourselves. While I agree that Russians too have milked us (in reality every country in the world would do that), but they've also never shy away to open doors for their tech. Be it Mig21, Brahmos, Su30, SSBN program or even latest Su57....the amount of freedom Russians have given us has helped us grow a lot defence wise. While Naval and Army wise, we've grown leaps and bounds and isn't 100% dependent on imports, Airforce has been lagging behind due to the lethargic attitude by HAL, and the shadow of that can be seen in this deal where France is fully aware that IAF badly needs fighter jets to keep it's relevance. raki05 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 14 Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, MechEng said: Don't blame democracy for India's woes, we are living in a very low trust society where vast majority don't think of common good, everyone is for themselves. You won't able to discipline Indians through might since most Indians don't feel connected to their country and will fight back if oppressed. Chinese people are naturally very compliant, they're not rebellious like Indians so it's easy to extract productivity through might, but it comes with a caveat since China will slowly head the Japan way and face demography crisis in future. US was built on protestant ethics, although it's heading down a very wrong path right now. Hence they were able to be a superpower for so long, unlike China which forced growth through oppressing their own people. And the main cause is, lack of respect to law (you can replace respect with fear as well). Just see how people behave against the police vs infront of army, you'll see a stark difference. That's coz Army won't listen if you're a cousin of vidhayak or a zila parshad. They've strict protocols to act against certain situations and they'll act unhinged. Unlike Police who'll just fold up under external pressure. People listen to command, you'll see people follow traffic rules religiously on the signals where we have traffic policemen or functional traffic lights. Wherever we don't, they continue to jump even at the red light. Demographic crisis down the years is understandable, but it's in the future, and there will be no future if present ceases to exist, and in present situation, to ensure India continues to grow, we need to ensure a stable govt. exists which don't need to worry about the internal chaos. raki05 1
G_B_ Posted January 14 Posted January 14 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Ghatak was designed to do the MUMT with AMCA and Tejas mk2, potentially it can do with Tejas mk1a and Su30MKi as well. With Rafale, its a bit uncertainty at the moment. Biggest issue with rafale...integration. From missiles to data link singhvivek141 1
IndianRenegade Posted January 14 Posted January 14 39 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Biggest issue with rafale...integration. From missiles to data link Hopefully they are part of the deal. If our IACCS can’t talk to our costliest platform that will probably serve for the next 30 yrs, we are effed!
rangeelaraja Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: While I agree that Russians too have milked us (in reality every country in the world would do that), but they've also never shy away to open doors for their tech. Be it Mig21, Brahmos, Su30, SSBN program or even latest Su57....the amount of freedom Russians have given us has helped us grow a lot defence wise. While Naval and Army wise, we've grown leaps and bounds and isn't 100% dependent on imports, Airforce has been lagging behind due to the lethargic attitude by HAL, and the shadow of that can be seen in this deal where France is fully aware that IAF badly needs fighter jets to keep it's relevance. France has agreed to manufacture Safran engines in India - so would not say they are " milking" us. We have ourselves to blame and failure of HAL for sure. HAL has been a big big let down. Mig21s were not called flying coffins for nothing. We never had any such issues with Mirage 2000. singhvivek141, ravishingravi and raki05 1 2
singhvivek141 Posted January 15 Posted January 15 10 hours ago, rangeelaraja said: France has agreed to manufacture Safran engines in India - so would not say they are " milking" us. We have ourselves to blame and failure of HAL for sure. HAL has been a big big let down. Mig21s were not called flying coffins for nothing. We never had any such issues with Mirage 2000. I slightly disagree with this, we inducted Mig21s in massive numbers (around 600-700) vs Mirages (at max 70-80), and although Mig21 was primarily an interceptor, we used it as a multi-role fighter (which it wasn't) and in some cases as a trainer jet as well. Mig 21 was optimized for short range with limited payload, it was our first supersonic jet. It served us since 1960s while Mirage is part of our fleet since 1980s. You know very well that with first iteration, mistakes may happen. But calling it a flying coffin is just a western propaganda to demean Soviet jets, also most incidents happened post 2000s when the airframes were already 40 odd years old. Just take a case of F35 which too have faced numerous crashes despite being a relatively new fighter jet, yet no one calls it as a "Coffin". raki05, rangeelaraja and G_B_ 1 1 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 15 Posted January 15 11 hours ago, G_B_ said: Biggest issue with rafale...integration. From missiles to data link Some media houses have highlighted that F5 will have MUM-T, not sure what's the confirmed news, also it seems the reporter from ANI published the article little too early. As news are coming up, it's mentioned that 30% indigenization will only be with earlier aircrafts (probably one squadron India will buy off the shelf)...it will eventually increase upto 60% for later squadrons. Allegedly, Dassault will also sign "x" year maintenance deal for the serviceability of parts. Dassault and Safran are also setting up MRO in Nagpur and Hyderabad respectively, so that the airframes and M88 engines will be manufactured here. Dassault industry in France is horribly overloaded with pending backlog and they need a manufacturing place outside of France. Integration will happen, we used Rafales alongside Su30MKI in Op Sindoor...where Rafales protected Su30MKI against the BVR missiles of Pakistan allowing Sukhois to drop Brahmos on the airbases. Astra integration is also possible with Rafales as per the earlier deal itself. But this all aside, MoD need to revamp HAL first. We will keep on importing foreign jets unless our own industry don't wake up. HAL's quality of work is extremely shabby and even Navy is rejecting their LCH. Many defence experts like Sandeep Unnithan have pointed out the careless attitude of HAL and DRDO babus as against the professionalism and enthusiasm shown by pvt vendors. raki05, IndianRenegade, G_B_ and 1 other 1 1 2
G_B_ Posted January 15 Posted January 15 As i said before, hal prachand will give early indication of safran collab impact. Prachand is not a world beater. But it ticks indias boxes. As long its avaialability rate is as per expectation it should be a good vote of confidence. raki05 and singhvivek141 1 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 15 Posted January 15 5 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Some media houses have highlighted that F5 will have MUM-T, not sure what's the confirmed news, also it seems the reporter from ANI published the article little too early. As news are coming up, it's mentioned that 30% indigenization will only be with earlier aircrafts (probably one squadron India will buy off the shelf)...it will eventually increase upto 60% for later squadrons. Allegedly, Dassault will also sign "x" year maintenance deal for the serviceability of parts. Dassault and Safran are also setting up MRO in Nagpur and Hyderabad respectively, so that the airframes and M88 engines will be manufactured here. Dassault industry in France is horribly overloaded with pending backlog and they need a manufacturing place outside of France. Integration will happen, we used Rafales alongside Su30MKI in Op Sindoor...where Rafales protected Su30MKI against the BVR missiles of Pakistan allowing Sukhois to drop Brahmos on the airbases. Astra integration is also possible with Rafales as per the earlier deal itself. But this all aside, MoD need to revamp HAL first. We will keep on importing foreign jets unless our own industry don't wake up. HAL's quality of work is extremely shabby and even Navy is rejecting their LCH. Many defence experts like Sandeep Unnithan have pointed out the careless attitude of HAL and DRDO babus as against the professionalism and enthusiasm shown by pvt vendors. Someone must pressurise PMO to sanction testing facilities. For indigenous upcoming torpedos testing we go to Italy. R&D infrastructure Hi phuddu hai saala kya kare
singhvivek141 Posted January 15 Posted January 15 1 hour ago, IndianRenegade said: Catch these guys and hang them without trial. It's Pakistan, even a 0.00001% of kindness can cause a significant security risk. raki05 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 15 Posted January 15 Drones seen in Samba J&K. Couple of days back Terrorists escaped after a gunfight in Samba as well.
G_B_ Posted January 15 Posted January 15 Something cooking... Need to figure out at behest of usa or china. singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 15 Posted January 15 29 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Something cooking... Need to figure out at behest of usa or china. Probably China...to divert US's attention by provoking India so that it launches retaliation on Pooks. US would like to keep India-Pak border calm so that it can use Pak land to target Iran.
singhvivek141 Posted January 15 Posted January 15 52 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Pakistan army aur general public me Iran attack ko leke division hai, provoking India is the best way to suppress it. China can also play it's card to light up the Indo-Pak border and divert US's attention. G_B_ 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 19 Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Whats the hype on solar industries That they can produce 2 Pralay Missiles per month. Reckon orders will be placed for Pralay to be inducted in sizeable numbers G_B_ 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Terrorists escaped after the gunfight in Kishtwar. 7 jawans injured and 1 KIA so far. RIP
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