Rishabh Pant takes Yuvraj Singh's help to sharpen his game

[tapandrun]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Urvil Patel is an X-factor player. But we have no data on how he might do well in various conditions. But on road wickets he can be a serious X factor.

Wk to look out for in IPL :::

Karthik Sharma 

Urvil

Dhaiya

Ravi Singh

Prab

Salil Arora

 

But Odis is diff. need batter who can construct inning not just quick 30-35, need batters who know how to play with  high tempo but wth low risk.

Kushagrah, Yashvardhan are the ones who looks like decent to good middle order batters who knows how to construct innings, may lack bit of power game right now but can that can be worked up-on for Odis level of hitting required.

 

Why Ind needs wk who can bat in middle order in Odis ??--In short to mid term :: Gill and Rohit are openers and in mid term:: May be after Kolhi and Rohit ,gill will play at 3 , And long term Jaiswal will open and Gill/some1 else will open

Edited March 14 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Wk to look out for in IPL :::

Karthik Sharma 

Urvil

Dhaiya

Ravi Singh

Prab

Salil Arora

 

But Odis is diff. need batter who can construct inning not just quick 30-35, need batters who know how to play with  high tempo but wth low risk.

Kushagrah, Yashvardhan are the ones who looks like decent to good middle order batters who knows how to construct innings, may lack bit of power game right now but can that can be worked up-on for Odis level of hitting required.

 

Why Ind needs wk who can bat in middle order in Odis ??--In short to mid term :: Gill and Rohit are openers and in mid term:: May be after Kolhi and Rohit ,gill will play at 3 , And long term Jaiswal will open and Gill/some1 else will open

 

Kundu has serious potential. Also a terrific keeper.

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Wk to look out for in IPL :::

Karthik Sharma 

Urvil

Dhaiya

Ravi Singh

Prab

Salil Arora

 

But Odis is diff. need batter who can construct inning not just quick 30-35, need batters who know how to play with  high tempo but wth low risk.

Kushagrah, Yashvardhan are the ones who looks like decent to good middle order batters who knows how to construct innings, may lack bit of power game right now but can that can be worked up-on for Odis level of hitting required.

 

Why Ind needs wk who can bat in middle order in Odis ??--In short to mid term :: Gill and Rohit are openers and in mid term:: May be after Kolhi and Rohit ,gill will play at 3 , And long term Jaiswal will open and Gill/some1 else will open

Where is Dinesh Bana ? It looked like a million bucks in U19 and then played useful hands in domestics. But suddenly vanished.

[tapandrun]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

It is not just pant. Many guys have to work on certain things

 

1) Kuldeep both with bat and fielding

2) Sundar has to learn how to bowl doosra

3)  Entire unit needs practice on turning wickets

 

Have posted this in the past , many or lot of Ind players are content with where they are not trying to improve a bit.

They are happy as long as they are in that long list of 40-45 players who are on the roaster of selectors or are happy to be fringe players.

 

Sundar has been in system for a v.v.long time. He was seen has proper Ind prospect but he never improved.

Bishnoi is another one he still can not bowl leg-spin

Khaleel has not improved a bit 

 

The list goes on, no one is properly challenging the spots of already stablished player 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

Where is Dinesh Bana ? It looked like a million bucks in U19 and then played useful hands in domestics. But suddenly vanished.

Disappeared without a trace. If you miss the bus that's it. You have to do something extraordinary to re-establish.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, tapandrun said:

Have posted this in the past , many or lot of Ind players are content with where they are not trying to improve a bit.

They are happy as long as they are in that long list of 40-45 players who are on the roaster of selectors or are happy to be fringe players.

 

Sundar has been in system for a v.v.long time. He was seen has proper Ind prospect but he never improved.

Bishnoi is another one he still can not bowl leg-spin

Khaleel has not improved a bit 

 

The list goes on, no one is properly challenging the spots of already stablished player 

 

There is a reason why Ashwin managed to survive that long. He kept reinventing himself all the way. 

[tapandrun]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Kundu has serious potential. Also a terrific keeper.

Let him play some domestic cricket, he needs to gain some height and muscles 

[tapandrun]

9 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Where is Dinesh Bana ? It looked like a million bucks in U19 and then played useful hands in domestics. But suddenly vanished.

He is 21-22 may be playing U-23 for hryn. 

 

Unless some1 is really exceptional only then they are getting into their main domestic side (talking of good domestic sides) else most of them are going through u-23 system.

This new change where players are coming through u-23 has been v.good recently a lot of player/good players are coming through that.

 

Yashvardhan (hryn) wk-batter was playing U-23 some time back.

 

 

 

[Chaos]

Yuvi is treated like bradman, he couldnt hit anyone for jack in legends league

[singhvivek141]

15 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Have posted this in the past , many or lot of Ind players are content with where they are not trying to improve a bit.

They are happy as long as they are in that long list of 40-45 players who are on the roaster of selectors or are happy to be fringe players.

 

Sundar has been in system for a v.v.long time. He was seen has proper Ind prospect but he never improved.

Bishnoi is another one he still can not bowl leg-spin

Khaleel has not improved a bit 

 

The list goes on, no one is properly challenging the spots of already stablished player 

Question is why that's happening ? IPL impact player is the problem ?
Abhishek and Tilak were allrounders, both have almost stopped bowling. Abhishek used to regularly bowl 4 overs for Punjab. Jaiswal was a decentish leggie and dont think he even remembers his action. I'm 200% sure Suryanvanshi will be next in queue.
Riyan Parag is the only one who kinda took his bowling seriously but that's coz he isnt an India regular yet. We've seen likes of Venkatesh Iyer, Shivam Dube bowling less and less number of overs gradually.

[singhvivek141]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Yuvi is treated like bradman, he couldnt hit anyone for jack in legends league

Well he hit them when it mattered, 2007 T20 WC and 2011 ODI WC.
Post cancer, Yuvi just lost his magical touch. Before that he was inconsistent but always had gift of timing. There were perhaps his first 15-17 half centuries where India didn't lost a single game. Yuvi was the only power hitter we had from 2000-2004 (post which MSD came in).

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

Well he hit them when it mattered, 2007 T20 WC and 2011 ODI WC.
Post cancer, Yuvi just lost his magical touch. Before that he was inconsistent but always had gift of timing. There were perhaps his first 15-17 half centuries where India didn't lost a single game. Yuvi was the only power hitter we had from 2000-2004 (post which MSD came in).

He single handedly lost india one t20 wc tooo

[tapandrun]

21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Question is why that's happening ? IPL impact player is the problem ?
Abhishek and Tilak were allrounders, both have almost stopped bowling. Abhishek used to regularly bowl 4 overs for Punjab. Jaiswal was a decentish leggie and dont think he even remembers his action. I'm 200% sure Suryanvanshi will be next in queue.
Riyan Parag is the only one who kinda took his bowling seriously but that's coz he isnt an India regular yet. We've seen likes of Venkatesh Iyer, Shivam Dube bowling less and less number of overs gradually.

 

1st have to understand that most Ind players bowls and Bat at U-19 level unless they have issue with their actions.

 

Only Abhishek was an allrounder, he has improved on his batting thats good, he still bowls when ever needed and its upto captain when to use him. The other thing is in t20 can not risk much with non-regular bowler plus like it or not Axar is VC and if Abhishek is bowling the role /utility of Axar is reduced(not saying this is a reason but can be a reason).

 

For other mentioned in the post, see evey1 bowls at lower levels and then they have to improve on 1 skill to be in contention in Ind cricketing system. 

The other part is these part timers bowl well in U-19 an A tours because most of opp. players do not know how to play spin or lacks the power to hit them for 4/6s.

 

But Ind should have developed tilak as off-spinning options that would have meant that Ind could have made a place for some better option than Sundar in t20i wc team.

 

Jaiswal should also work on his leg-spin can give him an edge in the selection.

 

The crux of this is all its good if they improve on primary of skill and then even better if they develop a secondary skil.

 

But player like bishnoi,Sundar, Khaleel have not improved even improved on primary skills.. this is just poor from them and selectors for keeping them in the rotation cycle even when there has been no such improvements

 

As for IPL , after 1st few seasons IPL is only interested in players who are in queue or are playing for Ind, hence IPL is not the problem the intnl selection is. Not a problem create by IPL. IPL is keeping the players who Ind selectors are keeping in their rotation

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14 by tapandrun

[singhvivek141]

14 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Only Abhishek was an allrounder, he has improved on his batting thats good, he still bowls when ever needed and its upto captain when to use him. The other thing is in t20 can not risk much with non-regular bowler plus like it or not Axar is VC and if Abhishek is bowling the role /utility of Axar is reduced(not saying this is a reason but can be a reason).

But Ind should have developed tilak as off-spinning options that would have meant that Ind could have made a place for some better option than Sundar in t20i wc team.

It's nice to have other options, we anyway have plethora of left arm spinners in domestics. Sai Kishore, Nishant Sindhu, Saurabh Kumar, Dharmendra Sinh Jadeja, Manav Suthar to name a few. Abhishek bowling few overs is a luxury.
Same goes for Tilak, there are examples in form of Markram and Philips who worked on their off spin ability to become a 2-3 ov bowler, Tilak too can do that, considering the fact that both Abhishek and Tilak are front runners in the ODI squad once Ro-Ko retires.

 

 

18 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

But player like bishnoi,Sundar, Khaleel have not improved even improved on primary skills.. this is just poor from them and selectors for keeping them in the rotation cycle even when there has been no such improvements

Bishnoi, IMO, despite having a one dimensional primary skill have done well for India. He is pretty agile on the field and is handy with the bat as well. There were some news that he has developed a legbreak as a variation, but his primary weapon remains fast googlies. Though he also bowls flipper and top spin and he's quick through the air. A proper T20 spinner.
Sundar can improve in Tests, we need to just sit him out from T20s and ODIs. Ashwin too learnt Test bowling after some time. 
Khaleel is hopeless, he can neither bring the ball in, nor can bat or field. He is a one trick pony.

[Ultimate_Game]

Pant's biggest problem is that he's not a natural T20 player. He needs time to get set whereas the youngsters coming though are able to get started and hit right from ball one. Don't know what Pant can do anything about it and I would prefer he focuses on Tests and ODIs. He's still our best wk-batter in Tests and can be the perfect wk in ODIs where you don't need to hit from the first ball and there's enough time to get in. I can see him as a no. 4 batter in ODIs but T20s are a bridge too far for him with emergence of Samson and Ishan Kishan and with likes of Urvil Patel on the fringes.

[tapandrun]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

It's nice to have other options, we anyway have plethora of left arm spinners in domestics. Sai Kishore, Nishant Sindhu, Saurabh Kumar, Dharmendra Sinh Jadeja, Manav Suthar to name a few. Abhishek bowling few overs is a luxury.
Same goes for Tilak, there are examples in form of Markram and Philips who worked on their off spin ability to become a 2-3 ov bowler, Tilak too can do that, considering the fact that both Abhishek and Tilak are front runners in the ODI squad once Ro-Ko retires.

 

 

Bishnoi, IMO, despite having a one dimensional primary skill have done well for India. He is pretty agile on the field and is handy with the bat as well. There were some news that he has developed a legbreak as a variation, but his primary weapon remains fast googlies. Though he also bowls flipper and top spin and he's quick through the air. A proper T20 spinner.
Sundar can improve in Tests, we need to just sit him out from T20s and ODIs. Ashwin too learnt Test bowling after some time. 
Khaleel is hopeless, he can neither bring the ball in, nor can bat or field. He is a one trick pony.

 

Yes, now-on think the LA slow bowlers will be replaced by batters who can bowl LA slow. As for Off-spinner there is no place for specialist off-spinner in white-ball specially those with Sundar kind of batting ability. Tilak should have been developed as an off-spinning option as the team will mostly need max of 2 overs of off-spinners in t20s and may be 4-6 in Odis<-- hence a specialist off-spinner is waste of spot. 

 

In regards to bishnoi, his numbers looks good because he has played vs mostly B teams, is he good yes but best t20 players can take him down because he does not bowl leg-spin. Just imagine him turning the ball in both direction. He could become almost unplayable. But he is not even trying to develop good leg-spin.

 

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, tapandrun said:

 

Yes, now-on think the LA slow bowlers will be replaced by batters who can bowl LA slow. As for Off-spinner there is no place for specialist off-spinner in white-ball specially those with Sundar kind of batting ability. Tilak should have been developed as an off-spinning option as the team will mostly need max of 2 overs of off-spinners in t20s and may be 4-6 in Odis<-- hence a specialist off-spinner is waste of spot. 

 

In regards to bishnoi, his numbers looks good because he has played vs mostly B teams, is he good yes but best t20 players can take him down because he does not bowl leg-spin. Just imagine him turning the ball in both direction. He could become almost unplayable. But he is not even trying to develop good leg-spin.

 

 

 

 

IMO its still early days for Tilak, Parag and even someone like Rinku. If they develop their bowling there's a spot for them in ODIs. If they remain specialist batters, would be difficult for them to get in. And there's definitely no place for likes of Sundar unless he upgrades his batting and becomes a more consistent hitter or batter. At the moment Sundar is a poor man's Jadeja.

[tapandrun]

20 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Pant's biggest problem is that he's not a natural T20 player. He needs time to get set whereas the youngsters coming though are able to get started and hit right from ball one. Don't know what Pant can do anything about it and I would prefer he focuses on Tests and ODIs. He's still our best wk-batter in Tests and can be the perfect wk in ODIs where you don't need to hit from the first ball and there's enough time to get in. I can see him as a no. 4 batter in ODIs but T20s are a bridge too far for him with emergence of Samson and Ishan Kishan and with likes of Urvil Patel on the fringes.

 

Pant is not suited for Odis either, he lacks the ability to rotate strike. He gets stuck and his release shots are not good enough to clear boundaries and hence he gets hold-out.

 

Just look at kolhi/Iyer/KL how they play and imagine a player like Rishab playing with them. All of them rely on rotating strike and taking calculated risk to build the innings and this is the right way of playing Odi in middle overs. Iyer can do it at high tempo.

 

But if you put rishab in the middle order playing with these guys it wont be suited for their game and style or for that matter any good middle order batter. Middle order batters have to minimize the risk of their run scoring and runs should come easy for them. A player like Rishab will build pressure and will create a wkt opportunity fr. opp.

Its v.hard to play with a player who can get stuck and is an unsure/unreliable hitter . Can not build partnerships with such batters.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14 by tapandrun

[BacktoCricaddict]

He obviously and justifiably wants to revive his LOI career but hopefully he also knows he's the red ball GOAT wk batsman of Indian cricket. Gabba GOAT.

[rkt.india]

23 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Pant needs to reduce his weight and sharpen his reflexes pre 2021 levels to be anywhere near LOI sides.

Test is his preferred format