The **** is wrong with Israel?

[f2000560]

LOL KT' date=' ignore that tool, not worth the time.[/quote'] wow thats a real impartial source for the news you got there ! well lets see if Israel agrees to a impartial probe by the UN ? of course they did for publicity ! what did you expect. again i am not disputing a soldiers instinct to defend himself once attacked be is with metal tubes bars or knives they pretty much did the right thing. but why did Israel let it descend into a fracas causing death and pretty much **** publicity for itself. It could have handled it a lot better knowing very well this flotilla was leaving well in advance Israel is slowly but surely losing the propaganda war as it finds out it cannot act with disproportionate force all the time and expect the world to sympathize with it i think its a lot easier to call some one with a differing point of view a tool lets just be civil and agree to disagree instead of name calling !

[EnterTheVoid]

wow thats a real impartial source for the news you got there ! well lets see if Israel agrees to a impartial probe by the UN ? of course they did for publicity ! what did you expect. again i am not disputing a soldiers instinct to defend himself once attacked be is with metal tubes bars or knives they pretty much did the right thing. but why did Israel let it descend into a fracas causing death and pretty much **** publicity for itself. It could have handled it a lot better knowing very well this flotilla was leaving well in advance Israel is slowly but surely losing the propaganda war as it finds out it cannot act with disproportionate force all the time and expect the world to sympathize with it i think its a lot easier to call some one with a differing point of view a tool lets just be civil and agree to disagree instead of name calling !

First, you get your facts wrong and now, when presented with irrefutable PROOF of the malicious intent of the so called "aid" party, you resort to saying what Israel should and shouldn't do. What authority do you have to dictate what Israel should do when countering a pre medidated attack ? And for the record, this is the 9th attempt. You'd think they'd get the message by now, but nope. Also tell me, whats the need for 800 people on those boats ?

[f2000560]

First, you get your facts wrong and now, when presented with irrefutable PROOF of the malicious intent of the so called "aid" party, you resort to saying what Israel should and shouldn't do. What authority do you have to dictate what Israel should do when countering a pre medidated attack ? And for the record, this is the 9th attempt. You'd think they'd get the message by now, but nope. Also tell me, whats the need for 800 people on those boats ?

let it be an independent source that says they were armed to the teeth, second i only argued against disproportionate force used to respond. were you there to see who took the first shot ? second i suggest you get a sense of history what has happened to the arab palestinians is not too dissimilar to what happened to Kashmiri hindus, they were driven out of their homeland in tens of thousands, aided by the west so it could condone centuries of anti semitism. reduced to shooting sling shots against an uzi barrage while the world looks on. please do read my posts i may have been mistaken that they were totally unharmed but i always said this was propaganda and Israel fell for the trap hook line and sinker and is slowly losing its leverage and sympathy it enjoys with the world at large. no point in discussing this further. ciao

[seedhi]

do you dispute the fact they were unarmed. Yes they were taking a dig at sovereignty of Israel that was the whole point of the flotilla !! so how does Israel respond send heavily armed commandos and drop them right into the middle.

The Israeli commandos were armed with paintball guns to control the crowd. Only after they were murderously attacked with rods, knives and chairs did they have to use their handguns to save their lives.

[Brainfade]

It is established that the flotilla activists (a) were warned not to break the blockade (b) were armed and dangerous and © Israel responded with deadly force with the intention of enforcing the blockade. Now, let us discuss the merits of the blockade itself: is it justified? Does Israel have the right to keep and enforce it?

[coffee_rules]

There's something you learn everyday. This is the first time in my life, that I have come across this word - flotilla! Makes me feel like an idiota!

[Clarke]

The first two are funny: The ultra peaceful protests : And this is why Israel is different from Palestine:

[gs]

Can't help but wonder if Indian navy/coast guard were this vigilant, we could have probably prevented Kasab and his buddies from perpetrating the Mumbai massacre of Dec 2008!! :((

[Sooda]

It is still unclear who started this fight, I for one am NOT going to take the word of the Israeli foreign office website. It is interesting that all phones and communication equipment belonging to ANYONE who was on those ships has now been taken from them, they are completely uncontactable and the only side of the story we hear is the Israeli one. God bless the Murdoch press machine. Im sure the activists on board woild argue that the so called 'weapons' on parade were building tools being sent to Palestine. If their intent was to cause genuine harm, they might have armed themselves with a bit more than poles no? The aid would never have reached Palestine if it had gone through Israel, the Israelis have severely cut down on any aid going to Gaza and worse still on exports going out- the whole aim being to make the people there suffer. The same thing would have happened to this ship load. Those of you railing against Hamas- they might well be nutters. They have however proven that they are willing to make a deal and stick to a ceasefire. The last time a ceasefire was in place in 2009 Hamas stuck to it for months and it was the Israelis who broke it by entering into Gaza and killing Hamas members. The blockade on Gaza was supposed to have been eased as per the terms of the ceasefire but was not done. Hamas for their part were asked to release Gilad Shalit but an exchange was not agreed upon This was in international waters, so no sovereignity being affected at the point of confilct anyway...the aim of this flotilla was to break a blockade that has been described as a crime against humanity and a war crime by the UN. If it sailed to the Israeli port it would not be achieving that. It was never going to happen.

[EnterTheVoid]

It is still unclear who started this fight, I for one am NOT going to take the word of the Israeli foreign office website. It is interesting that all phones and communication equipment belonging to ANYONE who was on those ships has now been taken from them, they are completely uncontactable and the only side of the story we hear is the Israeli one. God bless the Murdoch press machine. Im sure the activists on board woild argue that the so called 'weapons' on parade were building tools being sent to Palestine. If their intent was to cause genuine harm, they might have armed themselves with a bit more than poles no? The aid would never have reached Palestine if it had gone through Israel, the Israelis have severely cut down on any aid going to Gaza and worse still on exports going out- the whole aim being to make the people there suffer. The same thing would have happened to this ship load. Those of you railing against Hamas- they might well be nutters. They have however proven that they are willing to make a deal and stick to a ceasefire. The last time a ceasefire was in place in 2009 Hamas stuck to it for months and it was the Israelis who broke it by entering into Gaza and killing Hamas members. The blockade on Gaza was supposed to have been eased as per the terms of the ceasefire but was not done. Hamas for their part were asked to release Gilad Shalit but an exchange was not agreed upon This was in international waters, so no sovereignity being affected at the point of confilct anyway...the aim of this flotilla was to break a blockade that has been described as a crime against humanity and a war crime by the UN. If it sailed to the Israeli port it would not be achieving that. It was never going to happen.

9th Time they've tried this. By now, they should have gotten the message, no ?

[Sooda]

^What message is that then? Leave Israelis alone to commit their war crimes ?

[EnterTheVoid]

^What message is that then? Leave Israelis alone to commit their war crimes ?

Whats the need for 800 people on this flotilla ? Suppose they got to Israel, will Israel just let them in ? Isn't there a need to inspect the goods ?

[Sooda]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people. German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship. Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence. The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry. The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip. "This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket. "Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives. "This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added. Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred. Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes". "We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon." She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality." Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara. "The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him." Meanwhile, in Nazareth, Israeli Arab MP Haneen Zuabi - who was on the flotilla - told a press conference that Israeli forces began firing while still in the helicopters hovering over the ships. "We are calling for an international committee to investigate this tragedy," she said. Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience. UN criticism Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday. In an interview with the AFP news agency he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid. "Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said. Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized. He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey. AT THE SCENE Continue reading the main story Jon Donnison BBC News, Israel Here at Beersheva prison in the Negev Desert, in the sweltering heat, a procession of foreign diplomats and lawyers has been trying to gain access to the prisoners. Most have been let in and so has a party from the International Red Cross. Those who have come out have not said much more than that they have been able to see their prisoners. Behind the blue and white 8m-high concrete walls, more than 600 people are being held. For how long and to what purpose is not yet clear. Perspiring journalists can be seen scanning the Israeli newspapers, the headlines reading "Botched raid on Free Gaza Flotilla" and "Flotilla Fiasco". Renewed violence broke out in Gaza on Tuesday, with five Palestinians reportedly killed by Israeli fire. Two Palestinian gunmen were shot dead after crossing the border in the south of the territory, a military spokesman said. Three more people died in an Israeli strike in the north of Gaza, according to Gaza's emergency services. Israel said it carried out an air strike after two rockets were fired from Gaza. Following the Israeli sea-born raid, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered the border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip to be opened. The Rafah crossing has been closed since 2007, although special medical cases are occasionally allowed through. The Egyptian state news agency said the latest opening was to allow humanitarian aid through. It is not clear how long it will be kept open. The UN Security Council issued a statement after deliberating through the night. It said an investigation should be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent". It also condemned the "acts" which led to the deaths ----------

[Manny_Pacquiao]

It is still unclear who started this fight, I for one am NOT going to take the word of the Israeli foreign office website. It is interesting that all phones and communication equipment belonging to ANYONE who was on those ships has now been taken from them, they are completely uncontactable and the only side of the story we hear is the Israeli one. God bless the Murdoch press machine. Im sure the activists on board woild argue that the so called 'weapons' on parade were building tools being sent to Palestine. If their intent was to cause genuine harm, they might have armed themselves with a bit more than poles no? The aid would never have reached Palestine if it had gone through Israel, the Israelis have severely cut down on any aid going to Gaza and worse still on exports going out- the whole aim being to make the people there suffer. The same thing would have happened to this ship load. .

not just poles, but firebombs and stun grenades. Video evidence: http://www.cadenaser.com/internacional/video/version-israeli-brutal-ataque/csrcsrpor/20100531csrcsrint_2/Ves Of course, it might just be a big conspiracy...you know, like 9/11. the video might have been made in a hollywood studio...B-> As for cutting down on aid, please tell me why you don't moan about arab neighbours that do the same thing - i.e. Egypt.

[seedhi]

For those who are harping on that the boats were in international waters - it is allowed under international law for a country to enforce a naval blockade if it feels a threat, like Israel has imposed a blockade on Gaza. Once a blockade is imposed any ship can be intercepted even in international waters if it has a declared intention to violate the blockade. Israels actions are within international law.

[Clarke]

As for cutting down on aid' date=' please tell me why you don't moan about arab neighbours that do the same thing - i.e. Egypt.[/quote'] Standard response: many govts are corrupt and sold out to the Zionists and Americans. Haven't u heard Zaid Hamid yet.

[Sooda]

not just poles' date=' but firebombs and stun grenades. Video evidence: [url']http://www.cadenaser.com/internacional/video/version-israeli-brutal-ataque/csrcsrpor/20100531csrcsrint_2/Ves Of course, it might just be a big conspiracy...you know, like 9/11. the video might have been made in a hollywood studio...B-> As for cutting down on aid, please tell me why you don't moan about arab neighbours that do the same thing - i.e. Egypt.

Of course Egypt are at fault too here, the ship was aiming to break the blockade imposed by both And you cant tell nothing from that footage. even in the pics the IDF released there were no pics of grenades or firebombs. That so called firebomb did not even explode it seemed to me

For those who are harping on that the boats were in international waters - it is allowed under international law for a country to enforce a naval blockade if it feels a threat, like Israel has imposed a blockade on Gaza. Once a blockade is imposed any ship can be intercepted even in international waters if it has a declared intention to violate the blockade. Israels actions are within international law.

Apart from the fact that the whole reason why the ship was there in the first place is a 'war crime' as per the UN

[Manny_Pacquiao]

Of course Egypt are at fault too here, the ship was aiming to break the blockade imposed by both And you cant tell nothing from that footage. even in the pics the IDF released there were no pics of grenades or firebombs. That so called firebomb did not even explode it seemed to me

Yes, but while you are very quick to accuse israel of being war criminals for enforcing blockades, you have to be coerced into blaming Egypt, who have been doing blockades for a long time and severely enforce them in a way that could be considered brutal even by israeli standards. it's just funny to see this kind of one-eyed opinion. secondly, niether of them are 'at fault' for anything here. and i completely agree about the footage. i am sure the video is just a fabrication, the israelis are probably lying about the stun grenades or firebombs...those evil, zionist bastards.

[seedhi]

Apart from the fact that the whole reason why the ship was there in the first place is a 'war crime' as per the UN

UN says many things, UN said India should hold a plebiscite in Kashmir, do we give a sh*t about it? Legality under international law is a separate issue. By the way, UN itself delivers aid to Palestine through the land route via Israel. Perhaps those who quote UN could have followed its example.

[f2000560]

UN says many things, UN said India should hold a plebiscite in Kashmir, do we give a sh*t about it? Legality under international law is a separate issue. By the way, UN itself delivers aid to Palestine through the land route via Israel. Perhaps those who quote UN could have followed its example.

well UN says its allowed only 1/4 th of the aid which needs to get into gaza. further i think the stun grenade and the revolver were both taken from the IDF and used against them rather than being bought along with the protesters and this i think was acknowledged in a few reports. Why doesn't Israel release the full footage ? Lets see if they are ready for a full "Impartial" probe the trouble is nut cases like Zaid Hameed & other extremist groups like Hamas weaken the cause of palestine in the world but that doesn't make the cause if the plaestinians any less legitimate.