India's number 7 for the world cup

[Lord]

^he did well with both bat n ball in last Ranji season IIRC

[saneindian]

^he did well with both bat n ball in last Ranji season IIRC

Yep he did have a good season, but still bowled well on pitches which were bpwling paradises and struggled where there was little swing, was very ineffective with the old ball (due to his bowling speed). If at all he comes back, he will have to be the 3rd/4th seamer with 2 out of Nehra, Zak and PK likely to get the new ball ahead of him. And with a total lack of speed and swing (unless he has drastically improved his bowling speeds post IPL), he will be cannon fodder on the likely batting friendly pitches. Thats the reason why I said the Corporate Cup mand Challeneger Trophy will be two huge series for him, If he can make a strong comeback, well and good and it will definitely help the team. Who would not like to see Zak,Sree, Ishant, Nehra, RPS, Irfan all fully fit and bowling at their best come the SA tour and then the WC!

[Lord]

well Mithun/PK arent much faster either,still they r playing? I watched some of his Ranji games n he was swinging it in.If he plays,he can take the new ball with Nehra.he can swing the new ball atleast n get through few overs about being cannon fodder,which pacer we have tried isnt,all get clobbered on flat decks,we played our supposed full strength in India n barely defended 414.atleast Irfan can bat. n no amount of stats can convince me hes better option than Jadeja.playing Irfan would enable us to play two specialist spinners which we currently arent.spin is our strength n weakening it by having Jadeja is lunacy

[asterix]

The advantage of having Pathan in the team will be immence. In swinging conditions, he bowls beautifully. Dhoni has to use him judiciously and back him with good field placement. Gary should be more proactive in strategy making and getting the field placements in a proper way and not leave everything on Dhoni's judgement who gets clueless with his bowling strategy and field placements. Irfan can also open the innings if required and is a good fielder. He is a thinking cricketer and we need some intelligent players down the order as it's filled with stupid dimwits including Jadeja..

[nballa]

i think they should just leave the spot vacant and jump to no 8 directly. i mean if no 7 is losing us matches with piss poor bowling/batting/fielding why have him in the first place?

[Lord]

i think they should just leave the spot vacant and jump to no 8 directly. i mean if no 7 is losing us matches with piss poor bowling/batting/fielding why have him in the first place?

by that logic,Pak batting should start at 7 since thier batsmen r sucking/dropping catches:hmmm:

[Manny_Pacquiao]

people who doubt his batting ability against pace bowlers on Indian pitches need to watch his massacre of English bowling lineup last year..and lets forget his 100 in 37 balls in IPL where majority of his runs were scored against pacerss...

i dont mind people having favourites, but you are talking a lot of crap. he scored 72 of those 100 runs against Murtaza, sathish and jayasuriya. these guys arent pacerrs, they are SPINNERS. he got another 20 against ryan mcclaren, who is just an allrounder. he faced a grand total of SEVEN balls from zaheer and malinga who were the only good seamers in that bowling attack. http://www.cricinfo.com/ipl2010/engine/match/419107.html?view=pvp the guy averages 22 from 37 odis and has just 2 fifties, thats such a *****y record. i dont want an indian version of shahidullah afribee in our team.

[Sir john]

i think irfan should get chance.

[Sachinism]

I'm gonna be fit to play real soon guys.. Mostly the champions league :) :) and after that its up to d selectors to pick me or not :) - Robin on Twitter

[Duckworth&Lewis]

Yusuf because WC play in the sub-continent.

[donkey]

India never really had a genuine allrounder except for Kapil Dev. I wonder how we managed all those years. For now I believe no.7 position is little too crucial to be wasted on a pie chucker like Jadoo, maybe if he was number 8 I could have forgiven his batting woes. So lets pick a genuine batsman for number 7 position, who is also an excellent fielder(kohli) and let raina+sehwag+yuvi combo finish up the remaining 10 over quota.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

u dont need a genuine allrounder. the team just needs a guy who can 1) score quick runs at the end of an innings and maybe promoted up the order if needed 2) can bowl more than 6 overs with economy rate under 5 and with a few wickets here and there. thats it. a bits and pieces cricketer. i dont think anyone fits this position better than irfan pathan. and i refuse to believe that his bowling has gotten so bad that he cant be picked as an allrounder

[Ram]

We cannot have a patchwork batsmen like Irfan at no.7. He is definitely capable of playing around another specialist batsmen to score runs in partnerships, but these days, that is not enough. You need someone who is capable of scoring 50 runs in 6 overs with 3 wickets left or 80 runs in 10 overs with 4 wickets left and I dont see Irfan doing that. And keep in mind, even at the height of prowess, Irfan was never really effective as a lower-order bat, but as a pinch hitter at no.3. If he had been the bowler he was, swinging the new ball and taking early wickets, then yes, maybe we could have accommodated him somewhere in the batting order, but lets not even begin discussing his bowling, coz it is such a depressing feeling.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

say whatever u want about irfan, but he is best india can do for this number 7 position. i dont mind playing 7 batsman, but by doing that india will give up a lot more runs by predictably bowling part timers like sehwag and yuvraj. you can bet teams will target them with success in every single game.

[saneindian]

say whatever u want about irfan, but he is best india can do for this number 7 position. i dont mind playing 7 batsman, but by doing that india will give up a lot more runs by predictably bowling part timers like sehwag and yuvraj. you can bet teams will target them with success in every single game.

Apart from a t20 that he won along with his brother, can you recall Irfan ever winning a match for India coming in at number 7 or 8? All his good scores in ODI have come when he has been promoted up the order.In a batting line up of Sehwag, Sachin, Gambhir, Yuvraj, Raina and Dhoni , I don't see Irfan getting a chance to bat in top 5, especially in the sub continent. So as has been repeatedly pointed out, his bowling needs to improve for him to comeback into the team. Another factor that needs to be considered is, assuming Irfan does get a chance, whom will he replace? In all likelihood, he will replace PK. That will mean us going in with 3 left arm seamers, Zak, Nehra and Irfan. Thats too much of sameness in the pace attack, especially when we will be playing in the sub continent. Outside Asia, Irfan will be a natural choice as then we can go with 4 seamers (Zak, Nehra, Irfan and PK) and a spinner.

[zen]

For Ind #7 is a conundrum that needs to be sorted out sooner rather than later. The current pointless tri-series that Ind is playing in SL would have got some meaning if Ind had taken the opportunity to try out the bench strength (more like the tri series in Zim), then having the likes of Sehwag, Raina and Dhoni wrestling it out there. Coming back to the question on bowling combination, no matter what the condition (expect for dust bowl or square turner), theoretically, I would prefer to go in with 3 seamers and 2 spinners, with guys like Sehwag (our best spinner according to some) also being used as part time spin option (3rd spinner). Given this either one of the 3 pacers or 2 spinners has to be a decent all-rounder to lend a good balance to the side. Realistically, Ind is struggling to find a decent all-rounder, someone who can get in to the side both for his batting and bowling. Most of the options being considered are bits and pieces players, for example Jadeja to play at as an all-rounder, he should be a good enough to be picked as one of the 7 batsmen, while for someone like YP to play, he should be good enough bowler to be played as one of the 5 bowlers (and one of the 7 batsmen). Neither of them satisfy those condition. Now let's look at how the bowlers have fared in ODIs since 1 Aug 2009 (a year) in ODIs in India:

Bowler	Matches	Wkts	Economy	SR
Seamers				
Nehra	13	16	6.56	39.5
PK	10	8	6.01	55
Zak	5	7	6.22	38.5
Ishant	6	7	6.66	36
Spinners				
Bhajji	11	14	4.66	44.1
Jadeja	14	15	4.86	44.6
YP	3	4	5.31	43.5

If you look at the SR column, you will find that the seamers have done a better job than the spinners at picking up wkts. What's interesting is that the 3 spinners who have bowled in Ind have similar SR, showing that the opposition looks to play them out and build partnership (as seen by comparatively low economy). What this also tells is that bowling the middle overs has been a problem for Ind. And this puts pressure on the seamers when they come back to bowl at the death. Why bowling the middle overs has been a problem for India? The answer lies when you look at the spinners: Bhajji (dart thrower) and the other two who play as all-rounders (Jadeja and YP). It also shows that no matter whom you play as a spinner (specialist or part time), they come up with similar numbers. So if Ind goes in with 3 spinners and 2 seamers, it could potentially be taking the striking power out of the attack. With no decent all-rounder, the spinners not being as good as they are made out to be, the seamers not being as crappy as they are made out to be, the batting more or less settled (the silver lining), what would be the practical solution of an effective (not ideal) playing 11? Go in with 3 strike seamers (don't judge them solely on the economy as they usually bowl during PP and at the death), a wicket taking spinner (that's why there is a need to try out someone like Ashwin to see if he can be one). For the imp #7 position, go in with a specialist batsman, if we fail to find a decent all-rounder or a wkt taking bowler. As they say, if your bowling is weak strengthen the batting and vice versa. The combination based on above: - Sachin - Sehwag - Gambhir - Kohli - Raina - Yuvi - Dhoni - Ashwin / spinner - Zak - PK - Nehra

[Lord]

For Ind #7 is a conundrum that needs to be sorted out sooner rather than later. The current pointless tri-series that Ind is playing in SL would have got some meaning if Ind had taken the opportunity to try out the bench strength (more like the tri series in Zim), then having the likes of Sehwag, Raina and Dhoni wrestling it out there. Coming back to the question on bowling combination, no matter what the condition (expect for dust bowl or square turner), theoretically, I would prefer to go in with 3 seamers and 2 spinners, with guys like Sehwag (our best spinner according to some) also being used as part time spin option (3rd spinner). Given this either one of the 3 pacers or 2 spinners has to be a decent all-rounder to lend a good balance to the side. Realistically, Ind is struggling to find a decent all-rounder, someone who can get in to the side both for his batting and bowling. Most of the options being considered are bits and pieces players, for example Jadeja to play at as an all-rounder, he should be a good enough to be picked as one of the 7 batsmen, while for someone like YP to play, he should be good enough bowler to be played as one of the 5 bowlers (and one of the 7 batsmen). Neither of them satisfy those condition. Now let's look at how the bowlers have fared in ODIs since 1 Aug 2009 (a year) in ODIs in India:

Bowler	Matches	Wkts	Economy	SR
Seamers				
Nehra	13	16	6.56	39.5
PK	10	8	6.01	55
Zak	5	7	6.22	38.5
Ishant	6	7	6.66	36
Spinners				
Bhajji	11	14	4.66	44.1
Jadeja	14	15	4.86	44.6
YP	3	4	5.31	43.5

If you look at the SR column, you will find that the seamers have done a better job than the spinners at picking up wkts. What's interesting is that the 3 spinners who have bowled in Ind have similar SR, showing that the opposition looks to play them out and build partnership (as seen by comparatively low economy). What this also tells is that bowling the middle overs has been a problem for Ind. And this puts pressure on the seamers when they come back to bowl at the death. Why bowling the middle overs has been a problem for India? The answer lies when you look at the spinners: Bhajji (dart thrower) and the other two who play as all-rounders (Jadeja and YP). It also shows that no matter whom you play as a spinner (specialist or part time), they come up with similar numbers. So if Ind goes in with 3 spinners and 2 seamers, it could potentially be taking the striking power out of the attack. With no decent all-rounder, the spinners not being as good as they are made out to be, the seamers not being as crappy as they are made out to be, the batting more or less settled (the silver lining), what would be the practical solution of an effective (not ideal) playing 11? Go in with 3 strike seamers (don't judge them solely on the economy as they usually bowl during PP and at the death), a wicket taking spinner (that's why there is a need to try out someone like Ashwin to see if he can be one). For the imp #7 position, go in with a specialist batsman, if we fail to find a decent all-rounder or a wkt taking bowler. As they say, if your bowling is weak strengthen the batting and vice versa. The combination based on above: - Sachin - Sehwag - Gambhir - Kohli - Raina - Yuvi - Dhoni - Ashwin / spinner - Zak - PK - Nehra

very good post:congrats: one thing I notice that PK has an econ of 6.i really expected from a steady pacer like him.n his S/R is 55.Irfan's econ for a year before he was dropped was 40 n his E/R was 5.85.so really he was doing a better than PK has been doing.plus he bats as well,he can easily replace PK. as for spinners,they ARE our strength.the reason they arent looking as good becoz we have picked crap spinners like Jadeja n YP coz they are supposed to bat as well.wat we need is two attacking spinners bowling in tandem.n that will bring the best out of Bhajji as well.

[zen]

very good post:congrats: one thing I notice that PK has an econ of 6.i really expected from a steady pacer like him.n his S/R is 55.Irfan's econ for a year before he was dropped was 40 n his E/R was 5.85.so really he was doing a better than PK has been doing.plus he bats as well,he can easily replace PK. as for spinners,they ARE our strength.the reason they arent looking as good becoz we have picked crap spinners like Jadeja n YP coz they are supposed to bat as well.wat we need is two attacking spinners bowling in tandem.n that will bring the best out of Bhajji as well.

That eco rate is for when the bowlers are bowling in India. I don't know if IP's 40 is overall or when he bowled in Ind. I agree that an in-form IP would be an excellent option for India. Someone who can even be used up the order to get going in PP. But I am using the 3 seamers as striking option and I am not sure if IP's bowling has improved. I saw him bowl the silliest last over in IPL vs CSK against Dhoni. Other option in place of PK would be Ishant, if he has got his rhythm back and he also brings in right arm quick option (Zak and Nehra being left armers) Yes, spinners have been India strength traditionally but with the exit of Kumble, I am not sure if that's still the case. Other options we have are Ojha, Kartik, Mishra and Chawla but I am not too sure how much better they would be than the current ones being tried out. Ashwin looked good in the IPL and he did well opening the bowling too, if I recall correctly. May be he could be a good option w/ Sehwag, Raina and company doing the 5th bowlers quota. (As you can see with the spinners bowling the way they are of late, it is difficult for me to see them as effective striking options. They have allowed the other team to build platform and/or get back in to the game. Unless it's a 4th/5th day pitch in a test or a spin friendly track in ODIs, I have little expectations from our spinners.) It might not be a bad idea to work on the bowling line up like the one below for a series or two: - Zak - Nehra - Ishant / PK / .... - Ashwin - Sehwag, Yuvi, Raina and Tendulkar

[Lord]

That eco rate is for when the bowlers are bowling in India. I don't know if IP's 40 is overall or when he bowled in Ind. I agree that an in-form IP would be an excellent option for India. Someone who can even be used up the order to get going in PP. But I am using the 3 seamers as striking option and I am not sure if IP's bowling has improved. I saw him bowl the silliest last over in IPL vs CSK against Dhoni. Other option in place of PK would be Ishant, if he has got his rhythm back and he also brings in right arm quick option (Zak and Nehra being left armers) Yes, spinners have been India strength traditionally but with the exit of Kumble, I am not sure if that's still the case. Other options we have are Ojha, Kartik, Mishra and Chawla but I am not too sure how much better they would be than the current ones being tried out. Ashwin looked good in the IPL and he did well opening the bowling too, if I recall correctly. May be he could be a good option w/ Sehwag, Raina and company doing the 5th bowlers quota. (As you can see with the spinners bowling the way they are of late, it is difficult for me to see them as effective striking options. They have allowed the other team to build platform and/or get back in to the game. Unless it's a 4th/5th day pitch in a test or a spin friendly track in ODIs, I have little expectations from our spinners.) It might not be a bad idea to work on the bowling line up like the one below for a series or two: - Zak - Nehra - Ishant / PK / .... - Ashwin - Sehwag, Yuvi, Raina and Tendulkar

my bad,I didnt read ur post properly,but in a period of 1 yr before he was dropped,Irfan played just 1 game in India. I am sorry,but u r making way too much off IPL.Ashwin is good wen teams looking to take him apart,not wen they r content to see him off,we saw how he struggled in Zimbabwe.if u are suggesting hes better than Bhajji,thats just wrong n giving 10 overs regularly to part timers is extremely dangerous.they should n would come in if one of the bowlers get it,but to expect them to bowl 10 overs regularly is unfair.thier job is to bat n it should remain so

[Manny_Pacquiao]

Apart from a t20 that he won along with his brother, can you recall Irfan ever winning a match for India coming in at number 7 or 8? All his good scores in ODI have come when he has been promoted up the order.In a batting line up of Sehwag, Sachin, Gambhir, Yuvraj, Raina and Dhoni , I don't see Irfan getting a chance to bat in top 5, especially in the sub continent. So as has been repeatedly pointed out, his bowling needs to improve for him to comeback into the team. Another factor that needs to be considered is, assuming Irfan does get a chance, whom will he replace? In all likelihood, he will replace PK. That will mean us going in with 3 left arm seamers, Zak, Nehra and Irfan. Thats too much of sameness in the pace attack, especially when we will be playing in the sub continent. Outside Asia, Irfan will be a natural choice as then we can go with 4 seamers (Zak, Nehra, Irfan and PK) and a spinner.

he replaces jadeja. simple. the rest of the batting and bowling lineup stays the same and he doesnt need to win india any matches batting at 7. he doesnt need to make big scores. he will wlak in when the score is 220/5 in the 38th over and he needs to score a quick 30 runs or so or at least have a quick 50 or 60 run partnership with the last batsman so the team is set for 300+. we arent getting this from jadeja, and yusuf cant stick around for long enough, so irfan is the best choice. all of u guys are thinking about this the wrong way