Did Guru Greg just get lucky in the mid 80s?

[Sachinism]

I am not sure I follow. Are you saying that if the selectors pick a player that Ponting doesn't want, than, Ponting is forced to play him in the starting XI anyway ? That doesn't sound right. So why the back flip now ? If Nathan was being molded to become Australia's front line spinner and lead the spin attack, why was he not even in the starting XI. Is Hilditch so weak willed that he'd let all this preparation and planning go to waste because of the pig pigheadedness of one selector ?

I believe its true unless he has a valid reason like that player is disruptive and damages team spirit.

[EnterTheVoid]

OK Maybe I should somehow contact Chappal and make this point to him. If you're going to try and shock someone at least pick someone that is useful. As outy pointed out even your bowling would have been something new for the Poms. Its a rubbish selection, end of. Whatever happened to Krejza?

Like I said, I don't really think much of Doherty or agree with the selection. I just specified the reason Greg gave when asked why the u turn on Hauritz. Re Kreja, I don't know.

[The Outsider]

I am not sure I follow. Are you saying that if the selectors pick a player that Ponting doesn't want, than, Ponting is forced to play him in the starting XI anyway ? That doesn't sound right.

Quite obviously if such a conflict does happen.

So why the back flip now ? If Nathan was being molded to become Australia's front line spinner and lead the spin attack, why was he not even in the starting XI. Is Hilditch so weak willed that he'd let all this preparation and planning go to waste because of the pig pigheadedness of one selector ?

I am guessing it might have to do with Chappell. He can be quite an aggressive and stubborn character as we have all seen. 'Officially' Hilditch has to cop the blame as well, but reading between the lines and situations it seems quite a coincidence that Hauritz' dropping has been so perfectly synchronous with Guru's appointment as a selector, when he was quite clearly the first choice spinner for more than a year.

[EnterTheVoid]

Quite obviously if such a conflict does happen.

How is that of relevance here ? As far as I know, there is no talk of Nathan being a disruptive influence in the team ; Where does talk of Nathan disrupting team harmony emanate from ?

I am guessing it might have to do with Chappell. He can be quite an aggressive and stubborn character as we have all seen. 'Officially' Hilditch has to cop the blame as well, but reading between the lines and situations it seems quite a coincidence that Hauritz' dropping has been so perfectly synchronous with Guru's appointment as a selector, when he was quite clearly the first choice spinner for more than a year.

Isn't this more damming of Hilditch that he allowed himself to be bullied by one selector. What does it say about the selection committee when you have such a spineless individual chief of selection matters ?

[The Outsider]

How is that of relevance here ? As far as I know, there is no talk of Nathan being a disruptive influence in the team ; Where does talk of Nathan disrupting team harmony emanate from ?

Huh? Where did I say anything about anyone being a disruptive influence? All I said was that if there happens to be a conflict between who the captain wants and who the selectors want, the selectors' word will prevail simply because the captain does not have a vote in selection decisions in home series. In away series, yes he along with the coach and vice captain decides the final XI from the squad.

Isn't this more damming of Hilditch that he allowed himself to be bullied by one selector. What does it say about the selection committee when you have such a spineless individual chief of selection matters ?

It is, but that's how Chappell is I guess.

[putrevus]

Ian Chappell or some other Aussies were gloating on how strong their domestic setup is and if that is the case why are we seeing all retreads being called up instead of any new fresh talent.

[Sid]

^Yep how easily they used to say they have the best bench strength in the world and they will keep on producing world class talent with their system,we are seeing their world class bench strength now ,Usman Khawaja their batting future :giggle:

[putrevus]

The last great talent to emerge from Australia would be Clarke after that I can't think of anyone else Johnson except one series has been hit and miss.

[Nirvanam]

I thought Aus resurgence started under Border and Bob Simpson as coach

Yeah...in fact the mid 80s were possibly the worst time in Australian kirket history...even during Packer they managed to beat India 3-2 but mid 80s they lost at home to England, WI, NZ, and managed to hold on to a draw against India. The 87 WC victory was a deadly one but they soon were struggling again...I remember during the Nehru Cup days my general perception of cricket was that Aus wasn't gonna make it to the semis...i didn't think we needed to fear them at all. 89 Ashes changed the tide for Aus.

[ravishingravi]

I am confused here. Chappell retired in 81-82. I am still not sure if anyone actually credited his role as selector for Aus. resurgence. But clearly, if he was the selector his policies have vindicated big time.

[Nirvanam]

The last great talent to emerge from Australia would be Clarke after that I can't think of anyone else Johnson except one series has been hit and miss.

Hussey made his debut after Clarke, no? Anyway if Clarke is considered to be a great then Hussey should also be I guess.

[Nirvanam]

I am confused here. Chappell retired in 81-82. I am still not sure if anyone actually credited his role as selector for Aus. resurgence. But clearly' date=' if he was the selector his policies have vindicated big time.[/quote']The belief is that Border-Simpson had a lot more to do with Aussie resurgence than the selectors. It is only after late 80s that Aus started to turn around...during the mid 80s selection was more of musical chairs...not sure if selectors during mid 80s made any policy decisions...they played revolving door until Border-Simpson put their foot down on certain players like Jones, McD, Hughes, Boon, Waugh, etc.

[putrevus]

Simpson was the architect of Aussie revival starting with 86-87 Indian tour,he made them work so hard on fielding and fitness.Border embodied with fighting spirit Aussies are famous was field general that is he so revered in Australia.

[The Outsider]

Chappell was one of the selectors during the time of the Australian revival and has been credited with quite a few selection successes like appointing Border as the captain after Hughes resigned and the selection of their World Cup winning squad of '87. Players like McDermott, Boon, Waugh, and Dean Jones are credited to be his selections. Of course, Border and Simpson played a huge part on field, but the basic squad selection and sticking to individuals who got off to slow starts and/or did not have particularly flash First Class records is attributed to Chappell as well.

[Nirvanam]

Simpson was the architect of Aussie revival starting with 86-87 Indian tour' date='he made them work so hard on fielding and fitness.Border embodied with fighting spirit Aussies are famous was field general that is he so revered in Australia.[/quote']That reminds me of these 2 incidents - Chennai 86 Border asked the dehydrated, vomiting on the pitch, Dean Jones to show some mettle and continue batting after scoring a cent...basically dismissed him off as a weakling when he considered retiring hurt, which egged him on to then make 207, ending up in Hospital immediately after getting out. Kolkata 2001 Day 4, Lax and Rahul were being brought things and asked if they needed anything...payr dabao, hath dabao, juice pilao, pads utaro, during the breaks. Nice contrast!

[Robelinda]

Chappell retired in 1984, not 81/82. We went through back to back 5 test series vs WI after he retired, no team could come out of that well. Then we lost to NZ, couldnt beat India in Australia, there was no fluke with our selections, it took years to find the right players. It isnt like Chappell rocked up in 1984 and said "this bloke Steve Waugh is good, he'll come good in 1989", or "dont worry about 1984, in 1987 we'll win the world cup". LOTS of players were tried and failed, Robbie Kerr, Greg Ritchie, Simon O'Donnell, Dave Gilbert, Chris Matthews, Dirk Wellham, even David Hookes came back in 85 as vice captain and failed. For every guy that did succeed there probably 5 or 6 that failed miserably.

[youngindia]

greg chappell's problem was man management.his somewhat autocratic ways led to conflicts with some players.also his calculated leaks to the press angered the senior players. it was more a conflict over methods. that does not mean his judgement of talent is flawed. or his opinions should be dismissed. the cricketing misjudgement he made was the use of five bowlers. the use of five bowlers did not give the penetration he was hoping for. here boycott was right.

[jf1gp_1]

aussies should swallow their pride and recall warne,gilchrist, symond and martyn for the final 3 games; maybe even mcgrath

[Sachinism]

aussies should swallow their pride and recall warne' date='gilchrist, symond and martyn for the final 3 games; maybe even mcgrath[/quote'] I think the Aussies have some rule where they can't select players that aren't playing Shield cricket

[Nirvanam]

aussies should swallow their pride and recall warne' date='gilchrist, symond and martyn for the final 3 games; maybe even mcgrath[/quote']Aww come on..these guys will make even worser defeats at this point in time. Hence they themselves are staying away in spite of news coming out that this fellow may come back. Scoring one 50 in 10 IPL games a la Gilly is nowhere equal to keeping and scoring 25 runs in a Test match innings. Picking 4 wickets in the 16th and 18th over of a T20 innings a la Warne is nowhere near bowling 5 overs on the trot managing to keep the batsmen to less than 10 runs, in a Test innings. Get real, dude!