Hypocrisy regarding Pitches

[Asoka]

Why is it that only greentops are regarded as sporting tracks by the so called experts? Playing on a typical vintage subcontinental dustbowl is equally challenging and result producing.But the moment we produce one such dustbowl (recall Kanpur 2008) complaints start flying that the pitch is not fit for international standards.But the moment subcontinental teams get folded up within 3 days on a greentop the entire media starts howling how woefully pathetic the batsman are,etc as though playing on a green top is the sole criterion for how good a batsman is.Facing a Murali/Kumble on a dustbowl is as challenging as facing Steyn/Donald on a greentop.It is a well known fact that South African batsmen could never figure out how to play Warne on bouncy South African wickets,forget dustbowls.So,why these double standards? In the last few years even Asian teams have started laying out flat decks.Where is the diversity?Once upon a time England was the place for swing bowling,SA/NZ were perfect for seamers,Australian pitches had bounce,Lanka/Ind pitches favoured spinners,etc.But today thanks to the so called experts of the game,the diversity is shrinking. Your thoughts?????

[straight.drive]

Good Post. Playing on Slow pitches requires its own skill and technique e.g., Playing on front foot with flexible wrists and superior timing. Look how saffers play spinners, they stay "fevicoled" to their stance and play with rigid hands, thereby keeping the close in fielders with much interest. But the challenge is that, to produce a slow and turning track, you will have to allow the pitch to dry. If the pitch is pretty dry on the first day itself, it would crumble and become unplayable by 4th or 5th day. So the challenge is to make the slow and turning 22 yards to last for 5 full sunny hot days...

[Sachinism]

Excellent post, wanted to raise this for a while. I find it unbelievable how nobody has raised a single concern while SA have been doing everything to prepare green, bouncy wickets. When these teams tour India and there is a mention of turn or rough, they waste no time in crying foul We had a thread on this some time back, maybe someone could dig it up. What I find most shocking about these so-called experts is that they can't understand how much easier it would be to play on bouncy wickets for teams who have been brought up on them and played on them all their life. Same how turning wickets would be easier for subcontinental teams.

[Asoka]

Good Post. Playing on Slow pitches requires its own skill and technique e.g., Playing on front foot with flexible wrists and superior timing. Look how saffers play spinners, they stay "fevicoled" to their stance and play with rigid hands, thereby keeping the close in fielders with much interest. But the challenge is that, to produce a slow and turning track, you will have to allow the pitch to dry. If the pitch is pretty dry on the first day itself, it would crumble and become unplayable by 4th or 5th day. So the challenge is to make the slow and turning 22 yards to last for 5 full sunny hot days...

Agree with you fully.India used to make such pitches during the spin quartret era and the 90s(still remember India playing with 3 spinners in th 90s with Kumble leading the pack and Raju/Hirani/Kulkarni/Sarandeep etc as back ups).So there is no reason why the curators cant make one such pitch today.

[Sachinism]

Agree with you fully.India used to make such pitches during the spin quartret era and the 90s(still remember India playing with 3 spinners in th 90s with Kumble leading the pack and Raju/Hirani/Kulkarni/Sarandeep etc as back ups).So there is no reason why the curators cant make one such pitch today.

The problem these days is that broadcasters need to be kept happy too, so the pitch/match needs to last 5 days and BCCI pockets need to be filled

[achilles]

India should go for green tops. We owe it to our bowlers.

[EnterTheVoid]

Agree with the OP completely.

[dhillon28]

Because Gore Lok can't play on turning pitches- it is considered unsporting.

[putrevus]

Those dust bowls are not good for Indian cricket our spinners become so dependent on pitches and the moment the pitches don't offer any assistance they look lost, Our medium pacers become irrelevant and have no role to play in test matches played at home. These types of wickets ruined Indian cricket in 1990s with spinners taking zero responsibility when playing abroad and leaving everything for medium pacers.When playing at home other than taking shine of new ball and occasional spells fast bowlers had no role in the match. We were winning at home and were getting slaughtered overseas , why would you want to repeat that, we need pitches where there is pace and bounce which will help both fast bowling and spinners not dust bowls. Are we not seeing how well Bhajji is bowling especially overseas , he was being slaughtered by even Bangladesh batsmen and he has no idea how to be good spin bowler who can beat batsmen in the air .All he does is dart that ball and if pitches does not give him any assistance he is just meat and drink. He is typical Indian spinner who is product of Indian wickets rather than him being a great bowler and rather than working on his deficiencies as a bowler he has regressed and is ready to blame the nature of pitches , his rising avg is testament to that fact.

[Asoka]

@putrevus,this isn't about whether dustbowls are good or bad for indian cricket.The point is why are greentops regarded as sporting pitches whereas dustbowls are regarded as unfit for international standards.

[putrevus]

@putrevus' date='this isn't about whether dustbowls are good or bad for indian cricket.The point is why are greentops regarded as sporting pitches whereas dustbowls are regarded as unfit for international standards.[/quote'] dust bowls are mostly crumbling wickets where bounce is very unpredictable hence the batsmen have no idea how the ball will behave after bouncing that is reason why there regarded as unfit for international matches. Greentops bounce is predictable.

[Asoka]

dust bowls are mostly crumbling wickets where bounce is very unpredictable hence the batsmen have no idea how the ball will behave after bouncing that is reason why there regarded as unfit for international matches. Greentops bounce is predictable.

Yeah but consider the Kanpur test against RSA in 2008.It was technically a dustbowl but it offered massive turn for the spinners and there wasn't uneven bounce.Still Smith and their coach complained to ICC.

[Sachin=GOD]

Yeah but consider the Kanpur test against RSA in 2008.It was technically a dustbowl but it offered massive turn for the spinners and there wasn't uneven bounce.Still Smith and their coach complained to ICC.

thats because they could'nt play on it :giggle:

[Clarke]

There is a difference between a turning track & an under-prepared track. The latter can indeed lead to injuries not because of lack of skill but by the nature of the wicket itself. You cannot say that about a green top, which offers predictable bounce and exposes lack of application on the batsman's part. The few odis that we had to cancel in India did seem dangerous after all. I do not think that was the case in test matches, but its not like we are a powerful nation with a very rich board that can make a legitimate argument. The babus are busy handling important matters such as agriculture for a nation of more than a billion. Oh wait they suck on that as well.

[yoda]

Oh c'mon. Would you rather see a Steyn or a Morkel charging at batsmen and making them dance to your tune with the ball Swinging or a Michael Clarke spin his way on a crumbling dust bowl? I agree that pitches should maintain some semblance of continuity over a course of a match unlike the last test which pretty much made a mockery or a good wicket by giving a distinct advantage to the team bowling first, but that issue apart, I would vote for a green top over a dust bowl any day simply because it is aesthetically more appealing to me.

[The Outsider]

Michael Clarke spin his way on a crumbling dust bowl?

Actually, the equivalent of Clarke spinning his way on a dust bowl would be Styris and Oram run through world class batting line ups - both equally bad, IMO. The equivalent of Steyn and Morkel on a good, fast, green tinged track would be Saqlain in the Chennai test or Kumble at Kotla.

[yoda]

Actually, the equivalent of Clarke spinning his way on a dust bowl would be Styris and Oram run through world class batting line ups - both equally bad, IMO. The equivalent of Steyn and Morkel on a good, fast, green tinged track would be Saqlain in the Chennai test or Kumble at Kotla.

Fair enough. Guess I got carried away cause the OP referred to dust bowls.

[Laaloo]

thats because they could'nt play on it :giggle:

When they were 152-0, everything was fine and dandy but as soon as they collapsed, then it was the pitch. :cantstop:

[putrevus]

proteas make too many complaints and also have too much false bravado after winning Nagpur test Smith was saying his bowlers do not depend on pitches and can get wickets everywhere but ended up getting spanked next match.

[straight.drive]

Actually, the equivalent of Clarke spinning his way on a dust bowl would be Styris and Oram run through world class batting line ups - both equally bad, IMO. The equivalent of Steyn and Morkel on a good, fast, green tinged track would be Saqlain in the Chennai test or Kumble at Kotla.

I agree with you. But the point of the post is that, playing steyn and morkel is considered as a holy grail, whereas playing kumble at kotla is considered as a inferior skill.