rkt.india Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Munaf' date=' RP and Sreesanth all were 140+ bowlers when they started[/quote'] Kitni baar bataya yaar...RP was 125K bowler when he first debuted against Zim in 2005. Munaf was 140 but was averaging in high 130s around 137-138 and then he slowed down to reduce injuries and Sreesanth bowled in 140s here and there, but he is a rhythm bowler and still can bowl 140 in spells but not consistently and is not fit enough to sustain that pace for 10 overs in an ODI which Yadav and Varun can sustain. Sreesanth's pace comes from his run up and rhythm.
rkt.india Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Dont know what the fuss is between comparing Varun / Umesh to Munaf , RP, Sree. Guys let them be what they are , and not what they could be. Dhoni in the interview has said, the team management is aware of the dangers of exposing quick bowlers to extreme fatigue and pressures. He said both of them would be taken care of well, because they dont want them to be injured. Just pointing this out because , the Indian team has learnt this the hard way, they do not want to tinker too much with this pace attack, they have the experience to see how the bowlers lose pace after being used as horses. I'm sure they would not let that happen to these two. Its a exciting time for indian bowling. Lets be optimistic, they hang on to their thoughts and the bowlers deliver to the expectations. Like in case of Ishant, how he has been overused because we did not have good enough bowler who can support him and play to give him rest, not with Yadav and Aaron, it looks possible, IMO and it will give these two guys to improve themselves.
speed_demon Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Like in case of Ishant' date=' how he has been overused because we did not have good enough bowler who can support him and play to give him rest, not with Yadav and Aaron, it looks possible, IMO and it will give these two guys to improve themselves.[/quote'] True, and i'm sure because it's a well known fact in the Indian Circles, they would be extremely cautious of the fact, and would not let them be burdened with too much load. India needs to build a good bowling unit with good backup. 1st LOA(Line of Attack) : Zaheer,Ishant,Praveen,Varun,Umesh,Ashwin,Jadeja,Harbhajan,Ojha 2nd LOA : Sree, RP, Vinay, Tyagi, Mithun, Abdulla, Chawla,Amit Mishra, Aravind, Rahul 3rd LOA ( Need to identify by Team Management ) : Some names are Rahul S. Abu Nechim, Shami Ahmed, Unadkat, Bhargav Bhatt. they need to keep a close eye on the future and the bench strength ,and build a strong unit.
Deleted_User_1 Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Actually got a hard on watching him bowl today I am surprised you did not say you came all over yourself, or did you? :finger:
bajrang Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 i havent seen dhoni run up to bowlers many time, but when he saw aron reversing in 20+ over ball he went up to him, that's special, and aron swung it both way. umesh and aron both were getting reverse swing and swing it both ways, that was the most heartening thing to see. better then 4-0 result.
express bowling Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 -- I have been always saying that we need to create a pool of genuine quicks. Out of them 1 or 2 are bound to succeed although all of them will not. At last we are taking steps in the right direction. -- Pace, bounce, movement, accuracy, bowling to a plan -- when all of these qualities come together then we get a true strike bowler. Varun showled all these qualities yesterday. Now he should work hard to maintain and develop them and not lose focus. -- Competition among the pool of genune quicks will spur them to bowl quick, not lose pace and bowl well to become good bowlers. A culture of genuine quick as well as good bowling will be created in India. As of now we have Aaron, Umesh and Ishant. If Shukla, Shami, Nechim and Suyal are included too in the A team, waiting in the wings, getting focus and training, playing FC hard and in the reconing then the culture and competition will intensify.
Rightarmfast Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 The good thing about the present situation is that we have 2 bowlers in the team who can hit atleast 90 mph . Perhaps if Ishant finds his place in the team questionable because of these 2, he may also start bowling a trifle quicker. Earlier, we only used to have one bowler in the team capable of hitting 90mph. Like Srinath, then Agarkar and Zaheer ,Munaf and then Ishant. These 2 can bowl in tandem and hence can conserve their pace for a longer period of time. I vividly remember when Zaheer started his international career, he was of the same pace as Varun.He used to hit 90mph.
MCcricket Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 The good thing about the present situation is that we have 2 bowlers in the team who can hit at least 90 mph . Perhaps if Ishant finds his place in the team questionable because of these 2, he may also start bowling a trifle quicker. Earlier, we only used to have one bowler in the team capable of hitting 90mph. Like Srinath, then Agarkar and Zaheer ,Munaf and then Ishant. These 2 can bowl in tandem and hence can conserve their pace for a longer period of time. I vividly remember when Zaheer started his international career, he was of the same pace as Varun.He used to hit 90mph. Varun I believe is the fastest bowler to play for India if you look at the speeds achieved before making the debut, today he bowled in the 140's, he can crank it up and bowl 150's, I believe he bowled a bit smartly using seam , swing, he can bowl faster then this I have seen it, he can bowl 148 plus more then once in his spells.Umesh has raised his game and speed in the last year appreciably, these bowlers with their swing , pace could be lethal in bursts in England.It is a credit to him and shows he is smart and hardworking , stronger person to get over the disappointments and perform.
express bowling Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 The good thing about the present situation is that we have 2 bowlers in the team who can hit atleast 90 mph . Perhaps if Ishant finds his place in the team questionable because of these 2, he may also start bowling a trifle quicker. Earlier, we only used to have one bowler in the team capable of hitting 90mph. Like Srinath, then Agarkar and Zaheer ,Munaf and then Ishant. These 2 can bowl in tandem and hence can conserve their pace for a longer period of time. I vividly remember when Zaheer started his international career, he was of the same pace as Varun.He used to hit 90mph. He occasionally did but the difference between Umesh, Varun on the one hand and Zaheer, Munaf, VRV on the other is that the former group can hit 140k to 147k at will. without much extra effort and bowl consistently at that pace and their faster deliveries rarely drop below 138k in the ODIs and List A games that I have seen. The earlier bowlers, even in their eaarly days, had to bowl !40k+ with extra effort and dropped to 130k-133k when they were not putting in extra effort, even in the ODIs. ( everybody bowls slower in tests ). I find this fact really heartening.
Rightarmfast Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 //\\ /\ What I meant was, Zaheer in the first series he played ( I think it was Singer cup ) was bowling at the same pace with the highest of 145.But he was 140+ consistently. I still feel Srinath was the fastest we ever had . However,2 bowlers bowling at the same pace in tandem is a mouthwatering prospect and seems these 2 will only increase their pace in the years to come !
express bowling Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 //\ / What I meant was, Zaheer in the first series he played ( I think it was Singer cup ) was bowling at the same pace with the highest of 145.But he was 140+ consistently. I still feel Srinath was the fastest we ever had . However,2 bowlers bowling at the same pace in tandem is a mouthwatering prospect and seems these 2 will only increase their pace in the years to come ! Umesh, Varun and Ishant will definitely have to compete with each other for the genuine quick bowlers' slot and this will hopefully make them better bowlers as well. If any one drops pace or is not bowling well then the others will take his place. This is perhaps the best aspect of 3 young quick bowlers in their early 20s. :two_thumbs_up:
vishalvirsingh Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Umesh' date=' Varun and Ishant will definitely have to compete with each other for the genuine quick bowlers' slot and this will hopefully make them better bowlers as well. If any one drops pace or is not bowling well then the others will take his place. This is perhaps the best aspect of 3 young quick bowlers in their early 20s. :two_thumbs_up:[/quote'] idea is why do u need trundlers in the team when u have 3 fast bowlers who can maintain line n length...encourage fast bowlers more as they will fetch u wickets on indian tracks and english n australian tracks as well... check out england, australia , even west indies and other prominent team ..DO they play trundlers as a BOWLER in there team...NO not at all..if it is a mediumpacer as a bowler in there team , that bowler is capable of bowling at 140K + speeds..see england anderson bresnan finn meaker broad and many more all are 140 to 153 K bowlers..they will suceed in all environments. PAK- check out most of their pacers playing in the 15 are 140K + bowlers even Srilanka - normally has 140K + bowlers WINDieS- either thay have a fast bowler or they have a Spinner. I Suppose INDIA is the only country which has this special love for <130K bowlers ..ZAK bowls at 135K with great control and brings himself above 140K when ever he wants to...but Dhoni is falling in love with these <130K bowlers which is not the right trend. ONe Shud either have fast bowlers or SPinners( leg or off) or All rounders- if the allrounder is a trundler- then it is acceptable. i am OK if VK becomes as good a batsman as Jadeja to be in the team but at this moment i recommend strongly to drop PK & VK as they are trundlers and can only get wicekts if batsman commit mistakes going behind them ...Yes I agree PK does have one throw ball( in which he looks like throwing) which is a wicket taking ball else he is not a wicekt take after his first burst of 4 new ball overs. in a test match he can get wickets in first 5 new ball overs or never after...i wud say same wud be true of VK.. one shud select pure fast bowlers or pure Spinners.
vishalvirsingh Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 His overs 1st Over- 139, 141, 140, 141, 142, N.A. 2nd Over- 143, 145, 144, 143, 145, 140 3rd Over- 143, 142, 141, 143, 141, 138 4th Over- 143 , 138, 139, 139, 140, 139 5th Over- 141 (wkt), 141, 144, 141, 138 (wd), 143 6th Over- 138 (wd), 143, 127, 142, 142, 125 (wd), 143 (wkt), 141 7th Over- 144 (wkt) his best balls were the 144K toe crushers he bowled and one got a bowled...deadly balls. but probably UY was around 147.5 hence UY was kind of a shade faster. UY's run Up looks a bit better than Aroon...or possibly Aroon is still not in his best rhythm. Looks like Aroon can become way better as his run up and his non bowling arm can be better still. i loved the first Bowled that Aroon got..it was a great ball at 141K and also the 144K bowled. the third bowled showed that he has a inswinger too.
Cricket Tragic Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 idea is why do u need trundlers in the team when u have 3 fast bowlers who can maintain line n length...encourage fast bowlers more as they will fetch u wickets on indian tracks and english n australian tracks as well... check out england, australia , even west indies and other prominent team ..DO they play trundlers as a BOWLER in there team...NO not at all..if it is a mediumpacer as a bowler in there team , that bowler is capable of bowling at 140K + speeds..see england anderson bresnan finn meaker broad and many more all are 140 to 153 K bowlers..they will suceed in all environments. PAK- check out most of their pacers playing in the 15 are 140K + bowlers even Srilanka - normally has 140K + bowlers WINDieS- either thay have a fast bowler or they have a Spinner. I Suppose INDIA is the only country which has this special love for <130K bowlers ..ZAK bowls at 135K with great control and brings himself above 140K when ever he wants to...but Dhoni is falling in love with these <130K bowlers which is not the right trend. ONe Shud either have fast bowlers or SPinners( leg or off) or All rounders- if the allrounder is a trundler- then it is acceptable. i am OK if VK becomes as good a batsman as Jadeja to be in the team but at this moment i recommend strongly to drop PK & VK as they are trundlers and can only get wicekts if batsman commit mistakes going behind them ...Yes I agree PK does have one throw ball( in which he looks like throwing) which is a wicket taking ball else he is not a wicekt take after his first burst of 4 new ball overs. in a test match he can get wickets in first 5 new ball overs or never after...i wud say same wud be true of VK.. one shud select pure fast bowlers or pure Spinners.
express bowling Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 @ Vishalvirsingh I would personally like to take fast or fast-medium bowlers mainly as they are the ones who can become strike bowlers and wickets are what wins you matches. All great bowling attacks generally avoid multiple trundlers. But Dhoni has indicated that he would choose either Aaron or Umesh for the time being. He is the captain isn't he ? But you are overestimating the pace of the English pace bowlers. Bresnen and Anderson generally bowl 128k to 142k and not 140k to 153k as you have indicated. Broad bowls 135k to 146k in ODIs but generally 130k to 143k in tests. Even Meaker has not been express yesterday. Pakistan currently has Cheema and Junaid who are bowling mostly in the 130k s. Gul is also 130k to 138k in tests now. Sri Lanka also has many 130 s bowlers like Welegedara, Kulasekhara often bowls in the 120 s. Even Australia has Harris, Bollinger who generally bowls 132k to 142k. There is a new guy bowling in the early 120 s also, I am forgetting his name. SAF has Tsotsobe who is very medium pace. All foreign bowlers are not 140 k + with even 30 % of their deliveries. Why do you get the feeling that they are ?
vishalvirsingh Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 @ Vishalvirsingh I would personally like to take fast or fast-medium bowlers mainly as they are the ones who can become strike bowlers and wickets are what wins you matches. All great bowling attacks generally avoid multiple trundlers. But Dhoni has indicated that he would choose either Aaron or Umesh for the time being. He is the captain isn't he ? But you are overestimating the pace of the English pace bowlers. Bresnen and Anderson generally bowl 128k to 142k and not 140k to 153k as you have indicated. Broad bowls 135k to 146k in ODIs but generally 130k to 143k in tests. Even Meaker has not been express yesterday. Pakistan currently has Cheema and Junaid who are bowling mostly in the 130k s. Gul is also 130k to 138k in tests now. Sri Lanka also has many 130 s bowlers like Welegedara, Kulasekhara often bowls in the 120 s. Even Australia has Harris, Bollinger who generally bowls 132k to 142k. There is a new guy bowling in the early 120 s also, I am forgetting his name. SAF has Tsotsobe who is very medium pace. All foreign bowlers are not 140 k + with even 30 % of their deliveries. Why do you get the feeling that they are ? bresanan and anderson do bowl 140 + in the first spell continuosuly and they are definitely not trundlers...and all trundlers u have mentioned r already big failures and are about to become failures. australia is talkiong about inducting patrick cummins who is said to be 150+...FINN is so deadly that he is bowling at 150+ on dry wankhade wickets and he cud have got more wicekts ysterday and won england the match. trundlers King is PK and i feel all other trundlers wont suceed in test cricket.
vishalvirsingh Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Sammy- the trundler..who does not know that is he a fast bowler or a spinner or a batsmen..he does not even know whether he will be in WI team or not in future as he is not a international class Bowler and in a couple of years he will be extinct..wont play international class, even today he is criticiesd all over westindies as he does not merit a place in WI 11.
express bowling Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 bresanan and anderson do bowl 140 + in the first spell continuosuly and they are definitely not trundlers...and all trundlers u have mentioned r already big failures and are about to become failures. australia is talkiong about inducting patrick cummins who is said to be 150+...FINN is so deadly that he is bowling at 150+ on dry wankhade wickets and he cud have got more wicekts ysterday and won england the match. trundlers King is PK and i feel all other trundlers wont suceed in test cricket. Where have I said that Bresnen and Anderson are trundlers ? I have mentioned the pace range of 128k to 142k which makes them fast-medium. India also has or had many pacers in that pace range. They cannot be generally classified as 140k + bowlers. Even Munaf bowls a few 135k to 140k spells these days. He even bowled a 142.5k delivery in England. Would you classify him as a 140k bowler these days ? It is much better to consider the general speed range of a pacer than his fastest deliveries only and classify him as such. Finn is a 140k to 152k bowler rather than a 150k bowler. I was watching a few overs from Patrick Cummins yesterday. I don't know what his fastest ball was but he generally was bowling 138k to 143k. In the previous match he was doing the same. Finn of course is fast but the speed gun reading has got nothing to do with the pitch. It measures speed at the time of release. Our point of debate is that, " not all bowlers from Aus, SAF, Pak and WI are 140k +." I have never contested that they always have 1 or 2 genuine quicks. But the rest are fast-medium with maybe 1 trundler also. I personally dislike trundlers in test matches as well as they have never become strike bowlers ever.Also not more than 1 trundler should be taken even in an ODI. There is no difference in opinion on that. :two_thumbs_up:
Sachinism Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 What's with the constant orgasms over pace? PK has been are most consistent and effective bowler and he is the slowest also
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