Indian Trundlers take note

[express bowling]

Agree with this' date=' the [b']emphasis should be to have bowlers who average 140k. If drastic actions are required, e.g. selecting minimum 2 fast bowlers who are capable of bowling a minimum above 140k then so be it, especially for Tests and domestic 4 day games (Ranji, Duleep, Irani). Now that is a quota system I am more than happy to endorse.:two_thumbs_up: Though Venky:hehe: will strongly object to it as violation of the Trundler Rights.

Exactly. When some of us talk about pace we don't necessarily mean 150 k +. Sufficient pace to hurry batsmen is what is required and that would be 135 k to 145 k type bowlers, especially if we are talking about new pacers. 130 k pacers are just not good enough for tests unless they have lots of experience and a thinking head. I definitely endorse the quota for quicks but would prefer 3 quicks with 1 spot open for an exceptional medium pacer if any are present.

[msb1991]

Glen Mcgrath ' date=' Shaun Pollock had pace when they came to international scene, not express but fast medium, they were 135 plus with excellent skills, combined with his height , accuracy , he was lethal, also half of Mcgraths games were played in OZ, where u can use the lenght and bounce with subtle movements, I am not sure how long you have been following cricket, maybe u saw him as he was slowing down , even Akram , Waseem did so, you cannot call them trundlers, if they slow down in early or mid 30's.[/quote'] They cannot be called trundlers if they slow down in their 30s. This is fair enough. The label is pretty much a derogatory one anyway. However, you cannot deny that all these bowlers took wickets at a speed of 130kph. Wickets can be taken at such a speed at Test cricket. Courtney Walsh against England in 2000 was the prime example of that. He bowled at just below 130kph and absolutely dominated England's batsmen. Ambrose also did well, bowling at such a speed. People will claim that they have 'experience' but this is merely the honed ability to take wickets. There is nothing stopping a bowler at no more than 130kph from taking wickets, it has happened before and it can happen again. Heck, Praveen showed in the England series that you can take wickets at 120kph, if you have the skill. But alas, people will argue that Ishant's one good spell is better than Praveen's numerous good spells just because it was a quick burst. People will argue that a medium pacer cannot take wickets in quick bursts, despite me showing that Praveen has taken 2 and 3 wickets at a time in Test cricket before and there is NO REASON at all that this cannot mean 4 or 5 on a good day.

[msb1991]

Exactly. When some of us talk about pace we don't necessarily mean 150 k +. Sufficient pace to hurry batsmen is what is required and that would be 135 k to 145 k type bowlers' date=' especially if we are talking about new pacers. 130 k pacers are just not good enough for tests unless they have lots of experience and a thinking head.[/quote'] What do you mean, 'hurry batsmen'? That is a misnomer completely. Batsmen bat on bowling machines regularly at 145kph if not more. It is movement or pace of over 150kph which rushes batsmen. And if anyone tries to argue that an international batsman can consistently adjust to seam movement if a ball is delivered at 125kph, don't make me laugh. The idea of playing the ball off the pitch at that speed is ludicrous. Just watch the batsmen flounder at good seam bowling at that speed with Walsh (2000 against England) and Mcgrath (2006/7 against England).

[peterparker]

pace alone cannot make a bolwer lethal..then shaun tait would have been a devastating bowlers..with pace, one needs movements of the seam or swing..this causes trouble to batsman..dale steyn is lethal because he swings the ball at a high pace...which does not give batsman to adjust

[pensionplan]

dale steyn is lethal because he swings the ball at a high pace...

Something what Mithun is striving for. Boards really well for Indian cricket.

[bulbul]

Simple Zak' date=' Ishant, Umesh , Varun ,ARE LISTED IN TERMS OF THE PECKING ORDER AS THE ABILITY OF BEING STRIKE BOWLERS, no ones place is guaranteed, if Ishant doesn't perform and he has strong competetion is the squad for places for strike bowlers , not trundlers, we can choose the best,this is possible if we choose the right bowlers as replacements, give em chances and make them compete for places.Gony, Dinda,Shami Ahmed, Nechim Ahmed, Rahul Shukla,Anwar Ahmed,Sudeep Tyagi,VRV Singh,these guys when fit and in form should be in the frame as they can bowl fast mediumish, have the potential to take wickets in test's at lower strike rate also some can bowl fast,same if Sreesanth wants to make a comeback, the problem is with selectors not laying a clear requirements and getting trundlers in test squad who are useless.It is like taking a slogger as a replacement for a test opener.[/quote'] where did Varun proved as a strike bowler ? Even Yadav is yet to be proved ... only Zak u can call a strike bowler...Ishanth is Inconsistant at best

[rkt.india]

You guys clearly dont understand the importance of line and length

All understand but if it can come with some decent pace than that is an even dangerous combination. Do you think McGrath was as slow as Vinay. Even at the end of his career he could easily bowl mid 130s which is a decent pace for a 6 feet 5 inch tall fast bowler and as accurate as McGrath. He was not a swing bowler just hit and deck hard with seam up right and getting seam movement. Bowling under 135K is not good enough.

[rkt.india]

Lots of blah blah ...no real speed numbers. I am betting he wasn't much faster than VK/Mithun types. Mid 130s for most part and he did great on the pattas.

What are you talking about? watch Kapil in 1981 in England and you will realize he was quite fast if not genuine quick or express.

[rkt.india]

I too watched Macgrath in mid 90s and he was never a genuine quick.I certainly dont remember him bowling consistently in 140ks. He was always a bowler who bowled in mid 130ks with occasionally touching early 140's at best.Same with Fleming and Reiffel was a touch slower.None of them were genuine quick or trundlers.But what made Aussie pace attack great was their ability to bowl consistently good line and length i.e. probe around 4th stump consistently.

Yaar who the hell is talking about one needs to bowl express or 150 all the time to be successful. Any bowler who can bowl over 135K consistently and can seam the ball and get bounce like Mcgrath with his height has all the reason to be successful. The optimum thing is control at decent pace, not express. There have been only 4-5 express bowlers in cricket history Thomson, Tyson, Akhtar, Lee, Bond, and Tait.

[BeautifulGame]

Yaar who the hell is talking about one needs to bowl express or 150 all the time to be successful. Any bowler who can bowl over 135K consistently and can seam the ball and get bounce like Mcgrath with his height has all the reason to be successful. The optimum thing is control at decent pace' date= not express.

Well that was the point i was making all along (comment #11) I was pointing out the OP assumption that u need authentic (or genuine in other terms) fast bowler to have a great team which is simply not true as proven by arguably the greatest team ever.

There have been only 4-5 express bowlers in cricket history Thomson, Tyson, Akhtar, Lee, Bond, and Tait.

Not sure i would agree with this.There may not be may express pace bowlers but there certainly were plenty of pace bowlers who can be genuinely called fast.Marshall , Holding Ambrose , Ambrose Donald all belong to that category who could bowl consistently bowl above 140k with ease most of their career.

[rkt.india]

Well that was the point i was making all along (comment #11) I was pointing out the OP assumption that u need authentic (or genuine in other terms) fast bowler to have a great team which is simply not true as proven by arguably the greatest team ever. Not sure i would agree with this.There may not be may express pace bowlers but there certainly were plenty of pace bowlers who can be genuinely called fast.Marshall , Holding Ambrose , Ambrose Donald all belong to that category who could bowl consistently bowl above 140k with ease most of their career.

Regarding bold part, being fast is one thing and being express is another. Any bowler who can bowl 140K or between 140-150K is fast, but a bowler who can bowl over 150K is express. Brett Lee, Thomson, Akhtar, Bond, Tait, Tyson are that kind of bowlers.

[Viki_J]

nice article :two_thumbs_up:

[Needforspeed]

Something what Mithun is striving for. Boards really well for Indian cricket.

If Mithun with his height and age advantage can learn to swing the ball both ways at 135+, it would be great for Indian cricket. He could aptly become Zak's successor. For that to happen some good coach will have to work on him for say 5-6 months. May not be possible for Eric Simmons, but the MRF pace foundation may be able to do so. Sad to see however that Mithun has qualitatively gone down since 2010. Maybe the Karnataka bowling coach's contribution?

[Rightarmfast]

I too watched Macgrath in mid 90s and he was never a genuine quick.I certainly dont remember him bowling consistently in 140ks. He was always a bowler who bowled in mid 130ks with occasionally touching early 140's at best.Same with Fleming and Reiffel was a touch slower.None of them were genuine quick or trundlers.But what made Aussie pace attack great was their ability to bowl consistently good line and length i.e. probe around 4th stump consistently.

If you can, then try catching the Bridgetown Test between Aus and WI ,99..If you can get the video, just see the kind of pace Mcgrath was generating as well as Gillespie. That will change your perception about him being Fast medium.

[msb1991]

Mcgrath could bowl 140kph on occasion. The relevant point is that he took a lot of Test wickets at 130kph. What is to stop someone, who cannot bowl 140kph, from doing the same? I feel there can be nothing but a substandard answer to this question.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Mcgrath could bowl 140kph on occasion. The relevant point is that he took a lot of Test wickets at 130kph. What is to stop someone' date= who cannot bowl 140kph, from doing the same? I feel there can be nothing but a substandard answer to this question.

The same that stops other players from spinning it like Warne or Murali or scoring runs like SRT,Lara etc. Mcgrath was an exception.The only other bowler who bowled between 130-135ks or slower and still managed to take test wickets at less than 25 runs was Hadlee.Two exceptional bowlers. But most fast bowlers who avg below 25 or even 25ish in test matches bowled 135+ or even 140 or 150+

[msb1991]

Mcgrath was an exception.The only other bowler who bowled between 130-135ks or slower and still managed to take test wickets at less than 25 runs was Hadlee.Two exceptional bowlers. But most fast bowlers who avg below 25 or even 25ish in test matches bowled 135+ or even 140 or 150+

But it is possible to take Test wickets at 130kph. Walsh, Ambrose, Pollock, Vaas, Mcgrath, Wasim have all done it.

[msb1991]

The same that stops other players from spinning it like Warne or Murali or scoring runs like SRT' date='Lara etc.[/quote'] The point is that Test wickets can be successfully taken at 130kph.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

The point is that Test wickets can be successfully taken at 130kph.

Only by exceptional bowlers of the calibre of Hadlee and MCgrath.How many bowlers of such calibre?

[zen]

A good write up .... Go for pace, no trundlers in tests please