Experts comment on Sachin's retirement (Kapil, Ganguly and Vengsarkar)

[The Outsider]

There is always something called transition.....If you have a decent house which needs upgrade you don't bulldoze the whole thing into the ground and start rebuilding from scratch

You do, if the house is beyond any possible repair.

[yoda]

maniac316, you are missing a point here. Newer players will take a few series to get better. Also, being in and out of the lineup doesn't do their confidence much good. So, you can't compare dwindling averages of veterans with those of newbies and claim the veteran to still be better. Yes, we would love for our newbies to get off to a blazing start. Given that they didn't, it doesn't mean we keep losing series after series playing the same set of players.

[maniac]

We do - Kohli' date= Rahane, Rohit, and Pujara are 4 batsmen who can give you a better overall output over the next 5 years than Tendulkar.

:hysterical: yeah let us play all of them together....infact these guys would have kicked Aus and Eng *** had they been in the team... Heard of something called transition??? This ODI series is most important ODI series before the WC unless say we have a Pak series somewhere in between for a lot of reasons a)this is being played in tough conditions and b)Next WC is going to be held here.. why would you throw a bunch of rookies together when you have the greatest ODI batsman of all time at your disposal to guide them As far as test cricket goes we already saw in the stats above that there are other slots due to open due to our dismal performances in recent times where the youngsters can get a chance....so what is the hurry in disposing of SRT....that is just blind hatred speaking

[maniac]

maniac316' date=' you are missing a point here. Newer players will take a few series to get better. Also, being in and out of the lineup doesn't do their confidence much good. So, you can't compare dwindling averages of veterans with those of newbies and claim the veteran to still be better. Yes, we would love for our newbies to get off to a blazing start. Given that they didn't, it doesn't mean we keep losing series after series playing the same set of players.[/quote'] I am not talking here as a worshipper all I am saying is why can't we make the best use of SRT before he retires or eventually gets dropped---whichever happens first... ODI yes I agree this should be his last series because most ODI series are going to be inconsequential before the WC anyways.i have also stated earlier as to why this series is the most important Tests I have already made my points clear we have enough slots to blood youngsters without having to struggle with a rookie team....why do we have to go through that pain as I have shown clearly SRT has still some Juice left in the tank.

[yoda]

^^There will always be some juice left in the tank. It doesn't mean we need to see it dwindle to it's last drop.

[vvvslaxman]

When Sandip Patil was dropped after scoring 30 and 41 against England at Delhi there were mixed reactions though majority thought that was the right one. They didn't go by the last few innings of him. 127, 20, 30, 41 which is not horrible by any stretch of the imagination.But he sucked big time before that. After defeat to England it really hurt people. Kapil was dropped. Sandip patil was dropped. Boy what a replacement we got. Azharuddin. In the next 3 tests he proved he was here to stay. Even for 1 test loss reaction was very strong. Now we have got 2 white washes... not just white washes. Prison pounding of the highest order in each and every test. You cannot keep on dilly dallying who to drop who to keep. Take a plunge and see what you get. You can't get any worse. Our seniors have crossed a stage where they cannot teach anything anymore to anyone.

[Lurker]

When Sandip Patil was dropped after scoring 30 and 41 against England at Delhi there were mixed reactions though majority thought that was the right one. They didn't go by the last few innings of him. 127' date=' 20, 30, 41 which is not horrible by any stretch of the imagination.But he sucked big time before that. After defeat to England it really hurt people. Kapil was dropped. Sandip patil was dropped. [b']Boy what a replacement we got. Azharuddin. In the next 3 tests he proved he was here to stay. Even for 1 test loss reaction was very strong. Now we have got 2 white washes... not just white washes. Prison pounding of the highest order in each and every test. You cannot keep on dilly dallying who to drop who to keep. Take a plunge and see what you get. You can't get any worse. Our seniors have crossed a stage where they cannot teach anything anymore to anyone.

Azharuddin was a great player. Its actually a great example, in more ways than one. After Azharuddin scored those 3 centuries he was the toast of India, batsman who would take over from Sunil Gavaskar. Sachin in his formative years was still under the shadow of Azhar's popularity. But even after those 3 centuries, Azharuddin did not have a vehicle. He had a cycle which he used to move around on, not even a scooter. One of his auto-driver friends put his taxi in front of Azhar's house so it did not seem embarassing in any way to see International Test cricketer with 3 centuries move on a bicycle. Chew on that for a second. A Yusuf Pathan earned more in his first month of cricket than Azhar did those days. No wonder it went straight to his head(and others).

[Prakat]

When Sandip Patil was dropped after scoring 30 and 41 against England at Delhi there were mixed reactions though majority thought that was the right one. They didn't go by the last few innings of him. 127' date=' 20, 30, 41 which is not horrible by any stretch of the imagination.But he sucked big time before that. After defeat to England it really hurt people. Kapil was dropped. Sandip patil was dropped. Boy what a replacement we got. Azharuddin. In the next 3 tests he proved he was here to stay. Even for 1 test loss reaction was very strong. Now we have got 2 white washes... not just white washes. [b']Prison pounding of the highest order in each and every test. You cannot keep on dilly dallying who to drop who to keep. Take a plunge and see what you get. You can't get any worse. Our seniors have crossed a stage where they cannot teach anything anymore to anyone.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: OMG VVS! Didn't expect you to come up with this!

[The Outsider]

:hysterical: yeah let us play all of them together....infact these guys would have kicked Aus and Eng *** had they been in the team...

I can say one thing for certain - they would not have lost 8 test matches worse than 0-8. Do you even realize the magnitude of the humiliation? If people are not held accountable for a 0-8 loss when will they be held accountable?

[Ponka]

^^There will always be some juice left in the tank. It doesn't mean we need to see it dwindle to it's last drop.

Great post by Yoda in this thread. Sachin should retire gracefully. Every match he fails, ends up taking some shine off his wonderful career anyways. He has served his time, did his job and now its upto others.

[maniac]

I can say one thing for certain - they would not have lost 8 test matches worse than 0-8. Do you even realize the magnitude of the humiliation? If people are not held accountable for a 0-8 loss when will they be held accountable?

Yes it is humiliating and the back to back white washes hurt every Indian fan. But why are seniors the only ones accountable and that too the prime focus on SRT??? Let us talk about England You mentioned Pujara,Rahanae,Kohli and Rohit Sharma....Ok that is 4 slots....Pujara was injured...we did play a youngster in Mukund in available slots we had....probably a wrong time to mention him but there were slots open from Yuvraj and Raina....2 players who have proved that they don't have the skill to succeed in test cricket. Going back to seniors...Dravid was going through a purple patch....VVS was one of our MVP's in the 2 preceeding overseas tours in SA and England, SRT is of course SRT and there were not too many reasons to drop him for the England series...if there were any please educate me. You mentioned 4 youngsters,I'll replace Mukund with Pujara in terms of availability and he did replace Sehwag,so you had 2 more slots available which belongs to Yuvi and Raina....Shouldn't it be obvious that they should have played there.... Then Wi series Ok we took a drubbing in England...which led to WI series...Didn't we blood youngsters like Ashwin,Ojha and gave another chance to Kohli in place of out of form Bhajji,Yuvraj,Raina,Mishra etc .... Didn't we play Aaron and Yadav???so we did learn from our mistakes as far as the humiliation in Eng was concerned by giving chances to a lot of youngsters.... Now you can't have a Rookie bowling as well as batting squad can you???Just imaginne losing to a low ranked WI following Eng...that would have been the worst thing to happen to Indian Cricket.... It was a good way to give back momentum to our strong batting lineup before the Aus series and all our seniors did well and there was no reason to drop them....Dravid continued his form....VVS had just one bad series but looked to regain his touch back....SRT was still scoring decent runs so what should have been the timing to drop them??? Finally the Aus series Dravid showed chinks in his technique and VVS had his 2nd consecutive overseas failure....refreshing to see Kohli do decently(Still did not set the world on fire IMHO).... Sehwag and Gambhir were total failures....so we have quiet a few slots opening up and I agree with you and everyone that some heads should be on the chopping block and there are enough to give some talented youngsters a chance... Where SRT fits in the scheme of things here and why some fans are gunning for him is beyond me as he has been the best among the seniors and we atleast need one senior in the team. Looking at some examples Take a look at 2 teams that have been average to poor in the last decade... WIWI was atleast winning some ODI's when they had the likes of Hooper and Lara playing along with a lot of rookies....Look at their recent performances against India when they had Chanderpaul in their team....they weren't humiliating even though they almost lost 3-0....It always makese sense to have atleast one senior preferably a batsman in test cricket. Pak When Pak got rid of 2 w's,Anwar,Saqlain etc after 2003 wc....it helped them for a while bcoz they still had a senior player in Inzimam but look what happened to them since they retired....Just add MD.Yusuf,Misbah and Yunis to the middle order and they don't look as bad as having Akmal,Azhar Ali and the other youngster I can't remember his name atm. Having Youngsters mixed with some seniors should always be the way to go

[Number]

Selectors fear telling Sachin to retire from ODIs: Jones

MELBOURNE: Former Australian batsman Dean Jones says that Sachin Tendulkar looked tired of One-Day cricket but no selector has the courage to tell him to retire from the 50-over format. "Father time waits for no one, including cricketing greats Ricky Ponting and Sachin Tendulkar. Both players are looking tired of the 50-over format of the game and this week enough was enough for the Australian selectors, who dropped Ponting from the one-day squad," Jones said. "India, on other hand, has no selector with the courage to tell Tendulkar his one-day career is over, no matter how badly he might be playing. People are worried their homes could be damaged if they are seen to have removed Tendulkar against his will. He will keep playing for as long as he likes and thus lies the problem for India," Jones wrote in his column for 'Sydney Morning Herald'. Describing Tendulkar as the greatest ODI player of all time, Jones said that one of the reasons for not telling the iconic batsman to retire was the fear that sponsors might pull out of the game. "Ponting and Tendulkar are massive 'brands' in their own right. If you kill off their careers too early, potential sponsors will pull out of cricket on a national basis, particularly in India. Tendulkar has also been great in ODI cricket - in fact he may be the greatest one-day batsman of all time. He has averaged winning one man-of-the-match award in every seven ODIs, proving his dominance over a 458-game ODI career," he said. "Indian vultures are starting to appear above Tendulkar's head, but who will have the courage to end his career? He is looking in average form and is consistently putting his team under the pump with some poor dismissals of late at the top of the order. "Mind you, it was only a year ago that he made an unbeaten 200 in ODI cricket. How time flies, with the great man looking vulnerable facing the two new white balls on bouncing Australian pitches," Jones wrote. He said with so much money in cricket today, many players would want to play as long as possible. "Let's be honest just for a minute. Players of today realise there is a huge amount of money to be earned in cricket and they will play for as long as possible to reap every cent. These guys will play until they are 50 if they are allowed to.'' "The penny has finally dropped as cricket boards around the world are realising this. They are also concerned at when is the best and right time to retire star players. The responses from fans and sponsors are unpredictable when they retire a player 'too early'," the former batsman said. On the criticism by former cricketers on the poor leadership of Mahendra Singh Dhoni in Australia, Jones said, "It is amazing how time has changed the place of power in world cricket today. It was only 10 months ago that India was No.1 in both Test and ODI cricket.'' "MS Dhoni was king of the cricketing world then and now he has critics all over the place. In his homeland, past Indian greats are saying his days are numbered as captain. They believe that, after so many Test losses away from home it is time India had a new Test captain. But the consensus is that Dhoni should stay on as the one-day and T20 captain."

Deano has spoken.:--D remember he said MSD is dreaming that he can win the world cup. though has some very good points here. mods can add Deano's name in the experts lists. http://www.sify.com/sports/selectors-fear-telling-sachin-to-retire-from-odis-jones-news-cricket-mcyvtzbcije.html

[Lurker]

^^ Then again Dean Jones always hated Sachin Tendulkar since the former went past his LOI runs...:giggle:

[Number]

^ :haha:

[Ultimate_Game]

Deano has spoken.:--D remember he said MSD is dreaming that he can win the world cup. though has some very good points here. mods can add Deano's name in the experts lists. http://www.sify.com/sports/selectors-fear-telling-sachin-to-retire-from-odis-jones-news-cricket-mcyvtzbcije.html

Deano has said the exact same thing which Ganguly mentioned in his article, i.e. Indian selectors lack balls to drop SRT. To Indian selectors: if you can't do the job then don't take the job and resign! It's no surprise that Aus has ruled cricket world and we generally have under-achieved despite the love for the game and resources we have available, and considering cricket is the only sport we play at a decent level (maybe except hockey which has gone down the crapper now) internationally. Aus don't hesitate to drop their stars and have a performance based culture where nobody is bigger than the team, be it Healy, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, Ponting etc., whereas we are still rooted in the culture of hero-worship where a Ganguly fan would rather see over the hill Ganguly in the team rather than an India win - the match at Eden Gardens where spectators actually cheered the opposition just because Ganguly was not picked for India is the most disgraceful act I can think of. Or, people would rather see SRT struggle in the team than see a successful team, or let an over the hill Kapil carry on so that he could be get the highest wkt taker record with a much better Srinath cooling his heels on the sidelines. We simply don't deserve to be at the top as we don't have the ruthlessness or balls to make the tough calls. We may get to the top occasionally which is more an accident (function of population, resources and popularity for cricket) than by design. And we for sure can't stay at the top for long as a team can reach the top by accident but no team can remain at the top without proper planning and design.

[maniac]

Deano has said the exact same thing which Ganguly mentioned in his article, i.e. Indian selectors lack balls to drop SRT. To Indian selectors: if you can't do the job then don't take the job and resign! It's no surprise that Aus has ruled cricket world and we generally have under-achieved despite the love for the game and resources we have available, and considering cricket is the only sport we play at a decent level (maybe except hockey which has gone down the crapper now) internationally. Aus don't hesitate to drop their stars and have a performance based culture where nobody is bigger than the team, be it Healy, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, Ponting etc., whereas we are still rooted in the culture of hero-worship where a Ganguly fan would rather see over the hill Ganguly in the team rather than an India win - the match at Eden Gardens where spectators actually cheered the opposition just because Ganguly was not picked for India is the most disgraceful act I can think of. Or, people would rather see SRT struggle in the team than see a successful team, or let an over the hill Kapil carry on so that he could be get the highest wkt taker record with a much better Srinath cooling his heels on the sidelines. We simply don't deserve to be at the top as we don't have the ruthlessness or balls to make the tough calls. We may get to the top occasionally which is more an accident (function of population, resources and popularity for cricket) than by design. And we for sure can't stay at the top for long as a team can reach the top by accident but no team can remain at the top without proper planning and design.

They had much better replacements in case of Healy,Steve Waugh or were having a continued bad patch like Mark Waugh and Ponting....SRT doesn't belong in either category so your comparison therefore holds nothing

[Lurker]

They had much better replacements in case of Healy' date='Steve Waugh or were having a continued bad patch like Mark Waugh and Ponting....[b']SRT doesn't belong in either category so your comparison therefore holds nothing

SRT doesnt belong in the category because a) Selectors are one weak spined bunch. b) No Indian player will cast his lot against Sachin, and Dhoni runs the danger of being sidelined if he goes far. Couple of things about Dean Jones: a) He knows exactly what he is talking about here. When Australia were rebuilding in early to mid 80s he was a vital cog - Boon, Marsh, Jones, Border, Steve Waugh, McDermott, Merv Hughes. No nonsense style of cricket and rebuilding it from scratch. And Australian selectors ensured that not again would top players - Lillee/Chappell(Greg)/Rod Marsh would ALL retire the same day. Isnt this exactly whats happening with team India? b) Reminded of when Australia were in England and Mcdermott got peeved for some reason while bowling, and was murmuring. Border went to talk to him, and when Border went back to fielding Mcdermott made the mistake of murmuring. Border went back snarly with a "Do that again and I will have you send back to Australia right away". Of course the modern day Indian cricketers - Sehwag, GG - take pride in snarling at Dhoni. He should send the effers right back too.

[maniac]

SRT doesnt belong in the category because a) Selectors are one weak spined bunch. b) No Indian player will cast his lot against Sachin, and Dhoni runs the danger of being sidelined if he goes far. Couple of things about Dean Jones: a) He knows exactly what he is talking about here. When Australia were rebuilding in early to mid 80s he was a vital cog - Boon, Marsh, Jones, Border, Steve Waugh, McDermott, Merv Hughes. No nonsense style of cricket and rebuilding it from scratch. And Australian selectors ensured that not again would top players - Lillee/Chappell(Greg)/Rod Marsh would ALL retire the same day. Isnt this exactly whats happening with team India? b) Reminded of when Australia were in England and Mcdermott got peeved for some reason while bowling, and was murmuring. Border went to talk to him, and when Border went back to fielding Mcdermott made the mistake of murmuring. Border went back snarly with a "Do that again and I will have you send back to Australia right away". Of course the modern day Indian cricketers - Sehwag, GG - take pride in snarling at Dhoni. He should send the effers right back too.

Firstly, :hysterical: that now Dean Jones has become the ultimate voice of Cricket because he mentioned SRT's retirement Second: Border example here is not valid as he is way senior to Mc Dermott but yes I do agree with you that the captain has to be brave enough and have the final say senior or youngster. Now going back to the topic of SRT here.....His presence in this series is vital due to various reasons mentioned in my earlier posts and yes even an ardent fan like me might not agree if he decides to play some obscure series after this one. As far as test matches go please see WI and Pak examples also mentioned above

[Lurker]

Firstly, that now Dean Jones has become the ultimate voice of Cricket because he mentioned SRT's retirement

Of course, because this is my first post on SRT subject and Deano Jones is the first expert I am quoting. Sure whatever Maniac-ji :giggle:

Second: Border example here is not valid as he is way senior to Mc Dermott but yes I do agree with you that the captain has to be brave enough and have the final say senior or youngster.

Seniority means jack-***** here. The time we speak of Australia were one of the lesser cricketing powers. Sure Border was the mainstay but look at India. World Number 1, WC champion. And who here wouldnt agree that a lot of that has to do with Dhoni as skipper? In terms of stature I would say Dhoni far outways that of Border.

Now going back to the topic of SRT here.....His presence in this series is vital due to various reasons mentioned in my earlier posts and yes even an ardent fan like me might not agree if he decides to play some obscure series after this one.

I would disagree with that, reasons being mentioned in my 7453 posts in last 3 days :hysterical: :hysterical:

[mastana]

Of course, because this is my first post on SRT subject and Deano Jones is the first expert I am quoting. Sure whatever Maniac-ji :giggle: Seniority means jack-***** here. The time we speak of Australia were one of the lesser cricketing powers. Sure Border was the mainstay but look at India. World Number 1, WC champion. And who here wouldnt agree that a lot of that has to do with Dhoni as skipper? In terms of stature I would say Dhoni far outways that of Border. I would disagree with that, reasons being mentioned in my 7453 posts in last 3 days :hysterical: :hysterical:

:facepalm: kyu bacho ke peeche par gaye ho bade bhaiyya. Sachin ne jab jana hai woh jayega hamare kehne se kya hoga. :((