Clarke Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Stop dreaming about these ifs & buts, PA isn't letting another partition happen & no foreign power is intervening directly to take on an army with nukes so as to 'liberate' a few thousand rebels. And yeah, Kashmiris still don't like us.
ravishingravi Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 We are just increasingly becoming like our beloved neighbours. Again how does this concern us ?
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 Something's got to give' date= what is the point keeping it in the long term if noone's budging?, if we are waiting for Pak to disintegrate - big bro China will step into all of their Kashmir. apart from losing the military strategic vantage points - which would equally affect all 3 parties if Kashmir(ours and POK and whatever China has) is demilitarised. Does the army really enjoy being there ? noone wants to be perpetually fighting a local population. The Hurriyat doesn't want the Army there - do they represent the people ? Will the pandits really go back to the valley now that they've all established roots all over the country ? the violence will never really be snuffed out, and while our best troops are over there looking for a needle in a haystack - we are losing/in the danger of losing territory in the North East - nukes or not, China can easily do another hit-and-run land grab. So, you are of the view that India, Pakistan and China, all 3 parties should demilitarized Kashmir. But, I don't see that happening in atleast next 50 years, atleast China and India. Forget about India for a moment and lets talk about China. China never loses an opportunity to capture a piece of land or water. Due to this behavior, there has had been problems between China and Taiwan and China and Hong-Kong, China and Japan, China and Vietnam and list goes on and on. So I don't think China would ever leave a piece of Land(Kashmiri part) that they already have.
hari504504 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 So' date=' you are of the view that India, Pakistan and China, all 3 parties should demilitarized Kashmir. But, I don't see that happening in atleast next 50 years, atleast China and India. Forget about India for a moment and lets talk about China. China never loses an opportunity to capture a piece of land or water. Due to this behavior, there has had been problems between China and Taiwan and China and Hong-Kong, China and Japan, China and Vietnam and list goes on and on. So I don't think China would ever leave a piece of Land(Kashmiri part) that they already have.[/quote'] India and Pakistan were very close to demilitarisation talks on Kashmir right before the Mumbai terror attacks. If the primary parties in the dispute- India and Pak both agree on something this big, China has nowhere to hide - it has no historical claim to the parts of Kashmir it has occupied apart from the -"gift from Pak" reasoning. They'd be put in a very tight spot in the UN if something like this does happen.
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 Stop dreaming about these ifs & buts, PA isn't letting another partition happen & no foreign power is intervening directly to take on an army with nukes so as to 'liberate' a few thousand rebels. And yeah, Kashmiris still don't like us. There was a very calm atmosphere there in Kashmir in the past as well for a good long period of time. So, why can't there be the same kind of atmosphere again. And I have a couple of fellow-employees from Kashmir in my company where I work. I meet them daily and I have talked to them and they say that they want calm, job opportunities and good atmosphere there in Kashmir. I remember an incident, about a couple of years ago, there were a couple of kashmiri carpet sellers in our area and my father called them up to our home to buy the carpet. Then, my father started a conversation regarding the situation in Kashmir and these guys told that normal citizen of Kashmir are highlighted badly in media outside Kashmir. Normal people wants peace and wants to earn money and their livelihood and tourism to grow in Kashmir like it was earlier. He said normal people stays away from these protests and all and many don't have any problem with India(maybe he just gave a diplomatic answer) But, I always believed, if Kashmiri people feel secure and confident, such kind of incidents percentage will surely come down and the anger against India too. Also as India is progressing then everyone wants to be part of that development and that gives everyone confidence, financial security and more happiness and calmness in life. So, development and financial security can actually bring calm in Kashmir
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 India and Pakistan were very close to demilitarisation talks on Kashmir right before the Mumbai terror attacks. If the primary parties in the dispute- India and Pak both agree on something this big, China has nowhere to hide - it has no historical claim to the parts of Kashmir it has occupied apart from the -"gift from Pak" reasoning. They'd be put in a very tight spot in the UN if something like this does happen. Ok, well. Lets talk about Balochistan. Is there any chance of their liberation or independence? Can India and other parties put pressure on Pakistan over this issue given that Pakistan never lost a moment to put pressure on India on Kashmir issue? Why don't Indians talk about balochistan openly, why so afraid to talk?
hari504504 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Ok' date=' well. Lets talk about Balochistan. Is there any chance of their liberation or independence? Can India and other parties put pressure on Pakistan over this issue given that Pakistan never lost a moment to put pressure on India on Kashmir issue? Why don't Indians talk about balochistan openly, why so afraid to talk?[/quote'] The US is already on the Balochistan case - there is a pending legislation in the house of congress to recognize the rights of the Baloch people for self determination, we'd do well to keep our hands away from it... atleast not in the public spotlight. Our involvement will simply raise the spectre of 1971 again and the Pak politicians/military would just use it as a tool to heighten tensions and distract everyone from the core issue, isn't it far better just to sit back and let things boil over. Clandestinely support them and let them engage Pakistan on their terms. They;ve already declared that they want nothing short of full army withdrawal and sovereignity. It is already hot topic that Bramdagh Bugti - one of the prominent Baloch leaders holds an Indian passport. The buck doesn't stop at Belochistan, the people in Sindh are taking a cue from this too to fan their nationalist movements and ofcourse the Pathans of Khyber Pakthunkhwa.
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 The US is already on the Balochistan case - there is a pending legislation in the house of congress to recognize the rights of the Baloch people for self determination, we'd do well to keep our hands away from it... atleast not in the public spotlight. Our involvement will simply raise the spectre of 1971 again and the Pak politicians/military would just use it as a tool to heighten tensions and distract everyone from the core issue, isn't it far better just to sit back and let things boil over. Clandestinely support them and let them engage Pakistan on their terms. They;ve already declared that they want nothing short of full army withdrawal and sovereignity. It is already hot topic that Bramdagh Bugti - one of the prominent Baloch leaders holds an Indian passport. The buck doesn't stop at Belochistan, the people in Sindh are taking a cue from this too to fan their nationalist movements and ofcourse the Pathans of Khyber Pakthunkhwa. You are absolutely right. If we start going places and call for Baloch independence, then people will definitely start connecting us with every disturbance or mishappening there. And also, it can affect our international reputation. And most importantly, (actually I am not sure), the next big agenda in our hands is to get a UN security council seat and maybe our involvement there can affect that. I actually thought those were just charges on Bugti or it has been proved ?
hari504504 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Regarding the passport - The Swiss Authorities could've easily dismissed the news pulibcly if it were untrue - he had applied for asylum after entering Switzerland. I guess there is some truth to it.
Prakat Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 ^don't be naive. If Kashmir goes' date=' we would have military presence in Himachal Pradesh and Jammu etc..do you think our neighbors will ever let us sleep in peace?[/quote'] lahore villa to let! :bhangra:
chainsmoker1985 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 A bit old but worth watching: [ame= Journalist interview in India --- Part 1 - YouTube[/ame] [ame= Journalist interview in India --- Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]
ViruRulez Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 No. Kashmir will be with India irrespective of anything. At the same time, I doubt Pakis would let Balochistan go by hook or by crook. We must use Balochistan diplomatically for keeping Pakis from messing around in Kashmir.
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