Have we given up on Raina-the test batsman

[maniac]

I was just looking at some stats on Cricinfo and from what I see,Raina just had one really bad series vs England after which he was dumped whick makes me look at him in a different perspective.... He had an amazing debut.....moderately succesful first overseas tour against WI (which by no means is a bad bowling side)and showed good form right up to the lords test when he made 78 ....we all know he is a different player altogether in the LOI format where he has done well regardless of condtions, In the past players like Ganguly and Steve Waugh were weak players of Short-pitch bowling most of their careers....now don't quote me out of context saying that I am comparing him with the above mentioned players,but I think we should not completely give up on him....With his style of cricket,if he overcomes some issues,he can be a very useful player batting at No-6 for us may be the role Gilchrist used to play,when he just used to take away the game playing at that position. I don't see the same spark in some of our other youngsters like Pujara etc and I think,their is still some hope here... What do you guys think???

[maniac]

Here is the list of his innings in Test Cricket 120 294 228 12 2 52.63 6 caught 2 v Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 26 Jul 2010 Test # 1966 86 208 128 14 0 67.18 6 lbw 2 v Australia Mohali 1 Oct 2010 Test # 1972 82 167 115 15 0 71.30 6 caught 1 v West Indies Kingston 20 Jun 2011 Test # 1997 78 207 136 10 0 57.35 6 caught 4 v England Lord's 21 Jul 2011 Test # 2000 62 113 111 10 0 55.85 6 caught 2 v Sri Lanka Colombo (PSS) 3 Aug 2010 Test # 1968 53 131 105 7 0 50.47 6 caught 1 v West Indies Bridgetown 28 Jun 2011 Test # 1998 50 141 103 3 0 48.54 6 lbw 2 v West Indies Roseau 6 Jul 2011 Test # 1999 41* 73 45 4 1 91.11 7 not out 4 v Sri Lanka Colombo (PSS) 3 Aug 2010 Test # 1968 32 62 43 5 0 74.41 6 caught 2 v Australia Bangalore 9 Oct 2010 Test # 1973 27 84 53 3 0 50.94 6 caught 3 v West Indies Kingston 20 Jun 2011 Test # 1997 20 62 30 3 0 66.66 6 caught 2 v New Zealand Hyderabad (Deccan) 12 Nov 2010 Test # 1975 12* 55 30 1 0 40.00 6 not out 3 v West Indies Bridgetown 28 Jun 2011 Test # 1998 12 29 22 2 0 54.54 5 caught 2 v England Nottingham 29 Jul 2011 Test # 2001 10 36 24 2 0 41.66 6 lbw 3 v England Birmingham 10 Aug 2011 Test # 2003 8 16 18 0 0 44.44 4 caught 4 v West Indies Roseau 6 Jul 2011 Test # 1999 5 21 13 0 0 38.46 7 caught 3 v South Africa Centurion 16 Dec 2010 Test # 1985 4 26 21 0 0 19.04 6 bowled 1 v England Birmingham 10 Aug 2011 Test # 2003 3 18 19 0 0 15.78 6 caught 1 v New Zealand Ahmedabad 4 Nov 2010 Test # 1974 3 34 25 0 0 12.00 6 caught 2 v New Zealand Nagpur 20 Nov 2010 Test # 1978 1 5 3 0 0 33.33 6 caught 1 v South Africa Centurion 16 Dec 2010 Test # 1985 1 9 5 0 0 20.00 5 caught 4 v England Nottingham 29 Jul 2011 Test # 2001 0 6 3 0 0 0.00 5 caught 4 v Australia Mohali 1 Oct 2010 Test # 1972 0 8 4 0 0 0.00 6 caught 3 v New Zealand Ahmedabad 4 Nov 2010 Test # 1974 0 3 2 0 0 0.00 6 lbw 2 v England Lord's 21 Jul 2011 Test # 2000 0 39 29 0 0 0.00 5 stumped 2 v England The Oval 18 Aug 2011 Test # 2004 0 17 13 0 0 0.00 6 lbw 3 v England The Oval 18 Aug 2011 Test # 2004 DNB - - - - - - - 4 v Australia Bangalore 9 Oct 2010 Test # 1973 DNB - - - - - - - 4 v New Zealand Hyderabad (Deccan) 12 Nov 2010

[Trichromatic]

He is not a good player of spin bowling and he will struggle on turners. :dontknow:

[maniac]

Also in England he was getting out mostly to Swann and we all know that he can generally pumell spinners to all parts of the ground

[maniac]

He is not a good player of spin bowling and he will struggle on turners. :dontknow:

Don't think so,I have seen him pwn Ajmal in the last 2-3 games we played against them and again slog overs in ODI may not be the right way to judge his test capabilities but I think spin is not a weakness

[maniac]

Actually my bad WI was his 2nd overseas tour...he played in SA

[Trichromatic]

Don't think so' date='I have seen him pwn Ajmal in the last 2-3 games we played against them and again slog overs in ODI may not be the right way to judge his test capabilities but I think spin is not a weakness[/quote'] He can easily manage short balls in ODIs. He can thrash anyone in shorter formats. The way he played Swann was awful and I have never seen any Indian batsman struggling like that against a normal spinner. He was clueless whereas everyone else were making Swann look like part timer.

[maniac]

He can easily manage short balls in ODIs. He can thrash anyone in shorter formats. The way he played Swann was awful and I have never seen any Indian batsman struggling like that against a normal spinner. He was clueless whereas everyone else were making Swann look like part timer.

Agree....but he should take a leaf out of guys like Ganguly and Waugh who just fought it out against the short pitch stuff and took advantage when the bowlers bowled to their strengths As far as struggling against Swann goes....This is only a theory but since I have never seen him struggle against spin before infact feast on them,I think he was over-whelmed by the occasion to take as much advantage as possible against the only spinner in the English line up as he knew the others were going to bombard hiim with short-pitch stuff....He even got stumped against Swann in one of the matches :dontknow:

[goggi]

More pertinently does HE want to really play Tests? And those struggles against Swann was not a lone incident, even at home he fell to Vettori abit easily one felt. Though I don't think Raina is a Test batsmen because he is an attacking batsmen and his game won't survive in the longer format due to the nature of the game. But he was also rather unlucky to come into the fold when the entire top/middle order were flopping game after game. Too much pressure on him really. He is one of those players where he will click if the India is at for example 350/5, which sadly hasn't happened too often.

[Trichromatic]

As far as struggling against Swann goes....This is only a theory but since I have never seen him struggle against spin before infact feast on them,I think he was over-whelmed by the occasion to take as much advantage as possible against the only spinner in the English line up as he knew the others were going to bombard hiim with short-pitch stuff....He even got stumped against Swann in one of the matches :dontknow:

Because he didn't play spinners a lot on turners before in a test match. Even on flat tracks he was out to spinners on many occasions in India by throwing his wicket and didn't really dominate them. His pair at Oval was plain horrible to watch. That's one advantage of having one weakness and keeping it in your mind. He was rarely dismissed on short deliveries in England. But he was always on backfoot because he was afraid. He was really trying to save himself and I guess that affected his play against Swann also.

[daryl1985]

His main problem is not the short ball but his fear that every ball bowled at him will be a short ball. I have seen Malinga own him in a few ODI's by giving him a short ball early on and then getting him with a full delivery soon after. With regards to spinners, he is good against them in ODI's and can slog them but is still to be truly tested against them in test cricket. His struggle against Swann was ugly but he was under a fair amount of pressure and Swann is class against left handers.

[vvvslaxman]

Dont think he has fear per se. He just doesn't have good evading technique. I don't expect anyone to get on top of the bounce every single time and score runs. But you should know how to evade. Since he predominantly a frontfoot player he gets into a tangle by the time he meets the ball. With his fast hands and reflexes he should have been a much better player against short balls. Sadly he never worked on it enough to get it corrected. I am sure he worked on it. But not enough. He has lot of positive aspects. Also when you play hook shot bat needs to be horizontal not straight. Look at Kallicahran and Lloyd hook shots in this.. man.. imagine these guys are possessed with modern bats. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PznnZr4isjE]Hooking - YouTube[/ame]

[vvvslaxman]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVKH6Mt7zSQ]Imran Khan KILLS Mohinder Amarnath *FAST BOWLING* - YouTube[/ame] Scary sh**

[Trichromatic]

Dont think he has fear per se. He just doesn't have good evading technique. I don't expect anyone to get on top of the bounce every single time and score runs. But you should know how to evade. Since he predominantly a frontfoot player he gets into a tangle by the time he meets the ball. With his fast hands and reflexes he should have been a much better player against short balls. Sadly he never worked on it enough to get it corrected. I am sure he worked on it. But not enough. He has lot of positive aspects. Also when you play hook shot bat needs to be horizontal not straight. Look at Kallicahran and Lloyd hook shots in this.. man.. imagine these guys are possessed with modern bats.

Shot at 1:17. :omg:

Dont think he has fear per se. He just doesn't have good evading technique. I don't expect anyone to get on top of the bounce every single time and score runs. But you should know how to evade. Since he predominantly a frontfoot player he gets into a tangle by the time he meets the ball. With his fast hands and reflexes he should have been a much better player against short balls. Sadly he never worked on it enough to get it corrected. I am sure he worked on it. But not enough. He has lot of positive aspects. Also when you play hook shot bat needs to be horizontal not straight.

He was on backfoot even when ball was over-pitched. He always expected a short pitched delivery. Look at some of his dismissals in England. He would have easily hit boundaries on some of those deliveries.

[rkt.india]

He can easily manage short balls in ODIs. He can thrash anyone in shorter formats. The way he played Swann was awful and I have never seen any Indian batsman struggling like that against a normal spinner. He was clueless whereas everyone else were making Swann look like part timer.

All left handed batsmen struggle against Swann due to his natural variation and angle. His average against left handers is 20, while against right handers is 35 in test cricket.

[saneindian]

Like Yuvraj, as long he keeps doing well in ODIs, he will always remain closer to a test spot especially with the test side in a transition phase in the next 2-3 years. Sending him to NZ with the A side in September wouldn't be a bad idea either. Also, there were reports of him going to Australia to work on his batting. Hope it does materialise , if not now then in August when we will be playing tests vs NZ and Raina will have no domstic matches either.

[vamos_rafa]

As someone rightly said, the problem is he keeps on expecting for a short pitch delivery and stays on the back foot. I personally would like to have him in the test side because he is also one of those clutch players. He can revel when the chips are down. He did that in SL, when he batted for Sachin for a day or so and then even against Laxman. But, he does need to work upon this weakness else he's all sorted out. Moreover, we already have Dhoni at #7, who is also not great technically so one more would be a real gift to the opposition.

[Trichromatic]

Moreover' date=' we already have Dhoni at #7, who is also not great technically so one more would be a real gift to the opposition.[/quote'] Yeah, our tail started from no 6 in England. :giggle: Only way for him to excel in test cricket is to play his natural attacking game and keep getting hit by short balls. Once all bowlers were targeting same weakness against Sehwag in 2002-04. It was so obvious ploy against once that no one was surprised when he tried to cut a short ball in ODI against WI. As if everyone was expecting it. Once he ignored those hits on helmets and body and kept dispatching balls in his zone, bowlers stopped changed strategy.

[vamos_rafa]

Yeah, our tail started from no 6 in England. :giggle: Only way for him to excel in test cricket is to play his natural attacking game and keep getting hit by short balls. Once all bowlers were targeting same weakness against Sehwag in 2002-04. It was so obvious ploy against once that no one was surprised when he tried to cut a short ball in ODI against WI. As if everyone was expecting it. Once he ignored those hits on helmets and body and kept dispatching balls in his zone, bowlers stopped changed strategy.

Correct but he needs to be able to judge the length of the delivery rather than expecting it. then only he can do whatever he can.

[rkt.india]

Yeah, our tail started from no 6 in England. :giggle: Only way for him to excel in test cricket is to play his natural attacking game and keep getting hit by short balls. Once all bowlers were targeting same weakness against Sehwag in 2002-04. It was so obvious ploy against once that no one was surprised when he tried to cut a short ball in ODI against WI. As if everyone was expecting it. Once he ignored those hits on helmets and body and kept dispatching balls in his zone, bowlers stopped changed strategy.

Apart from Dravid, all 10 players were our tail in England. Dhoni scored more than Laxman, Gambir, Mukund, and Sehwag combined.